# FCC Repeals Net Neutrality Rule **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522 "2017-12-14T18:35:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/341 "2017-12-17T20:28:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, it’s leftist logic, to be sure. As totally valid as the rest of the leftist agenda. As opposed to the Fox News logic exhibited in this thread, in which the idea of regulation on industries is literally presented as a Soviet five-year central plan for the economy. Riiiiiight. That’s clear thinking there. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/342 "2017-12-17T20:36:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, it’s leftist logic, to be sure. As totally valid as the rest of the leftist agenda. Bar-B-Q, beer and pecan pie is _totally_ valid, but that’s pretty much it. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/343 "2017-12-17T22:07:10Z")
How many times has it been asked to the anti-NN folks to provide one thing that would improve without NN. There was one response that made a little sense - More research into wifi. That could happen when everything else goes right in the toilet. Other than that, nothing. Oh, except less regulation is better and it will be moderated by the (non-existent) market. Anti-NN don’t give one god damn about the cost for access and I DO THINK they would be happy to see large corporations decide what people have access to. That’s what it’s about isn’t it. Bricker - the ‘Leftists agenda’ is nothing more than the government should be fair to everyone. Regardless of their skin color, political beliefs, sex, or religious affiliation. You’re a lawyer, it’s right there in the constitution. You should know this. Crickets. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/344 "2017-12-17T22:50:21Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Bricker - the ‘Leftists agenda’ is nothing more than the government should be fair to everyone. Regardless of their skin color, political beliefs, sex, or religious affiliation. You’re a lawyer, it’s right there in the constitution. Why should the government regulate the internet in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/345 "2017-12-17T23:04:37Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Why should the government regulate the internet in the first place? To prevent corporations from acting as gatekeepers to what content subscribers are able to access. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/346 "2017-12-17T23:12:11Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Lack of regulation is control, and regulation is freedom. Got it. Well, then one could discount the rest of your post as it is indeed the opposite of what you are going for there. When traffic is not treated the same, new Internet businesses will be more likely to fail. Leading to less choices for consumers. (And less new jobs one should point out). > **[US net neutrality vote: a brief guide](https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-42353745)** > > An introduction to the net neutrality debate after US regulators voted to change the rules. (Short video from the BBC) The counter that Internet providers would then stop working on improving speeds or infrastructure is the item that in reality has less support because most of the industry continued to grow and improve. [https://www.wired.com/story/the-fcc-says-net-neutrality-cripples-investment-thats-not-true/](https://www.wired.com/story/the-fcc-says-net-neutrality-cripples-investment-thats-not-true/) > [@](#): > > The FCC Says Net Neutrality Cripples Investment. That’s Not True > > **But the nation’s largest internet provider actually increased its spending during this period, as did several other companies. Others cut spending, but said the drops stemmed from completion of longer-term plans.** The shifts highlight the challenge of determining the cause and effect of spending changes, which reflect corporate need, technological change, cost-saving innovation, and shareholder pressures, as well as regulations. > > There’s another consideration as well. The FCC says repealing the net-neutrality rules will remove “regulatory uncertainty” for broadband providers, and encourage them to boost spending. But the proposal will increase uncertainty for other internet companies, most notably small content providers, who may face stiff fees to distribute their work—and in some cases may not even try. Leading then one to say that the ones pushing the new-speak in reality are your sources of information. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/347 "2017-12-17T23:54:35Z")
It’s the old argument. The right fears government domination. The left fears corporate domination. Neither side is right _all_ the time. But righties can’t admit, for God knows what reason, that this might be that instance where the left has it, er, right. One thing that puzzles me, ignorant as I am about the functioning of the net as a _global_ entity. How does this decision affect international traffic? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/348 "2017-12-18T00:13:15Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Actually, it is. Ever heard of Adam Smith? Would you like a long list of free-market Nobel prize winners? Some links to papers by said Nobel winners that give scientific rationale for free markets? Ever heard of the Potato Famine? Absolute belief in Adam Smith’s theories are what lead to over 1 million people in Ireland dying of hunger and disease. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/349 "2017-12-18T01:10:50Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Why should the government regulate the internet in the first place? Can we please stop hearing that shit? Net neutrality does not “regulate the internet”. It regulates the gateway operators (ISPs), in order to require them to provide balanced, open access to the internet. That kind of regulation is about as apposite to “regulating the internet” as you can get. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/350 "2017-12-18T01:21:25Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > One thing that puzzles me, ignorant as I am about the functioning of the net as a _global_ entity. How does this decision affect international traffic? The U.S. will be interpreted as damaged, and traffic will route around it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/351 "2017-12-18T01:55:02Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > **Right-Wing Logic** : we should punish people for breaking windows > > **Left-Wing Logic** : we should prevent people from breaking windows > > I generally prefer fewer broken windows. Me too. But “appealing to the better natures,” of window breakers, and remonstrating with them as to the social cost and impact of the broken windows doesn’t work. So then you guys blame the rich, and tell each other how awful rich people are, which doesn’t save the windows either. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/352 "2017-12-18T01:58:02Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Bricker - the ‘Leftists agenda’ is nothing more than the government should be fair to everyone. Regardless of their skin color, political beliefs, sex, or religious affiliation. You’re a lawyer, it’s right there in the constitution. You should know this. BWAHAHAHA!!! Be fair to everyone that precisely and completely agrees with them, sure. But when the ACLU speaker tries to speak: [the scope of the "fairness,’ is quickly exposed.](https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/10/05/aclu-speaker-shouted-down-william-mary) ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/353 "2017-12-18T02:15:31Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > It regulates the gateway operators (ISPs), in order to require them to provide balanced, open access to the internet. How is that a concern of the government’s? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/354 "2017-12-18T02:42:06Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > How is that a concern of the government’s? Why isn’t promoting the general welfare as it deals with interstate commerce a concern of the government’s? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/355 "2017-12-18T02:53:31Z")
Repeating the question: > [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I’m still not understanding why US ISPs can’t provide the same free market neutral service as in other countries - I live in a city with about ten providers all keen for my business and the gov regulator would laugh them out the room at this idea. > > Is there a specific difficulty for the US market, other than Congress has been bought again by big business? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/356 "2017-12-18T03:41:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > BWAHAHAHA!!! > > Be fair to everyone that precisely and completely agrees with them, sure. > > But when the ACLU speaker tries to speak: [the scope of the "fairness,’ is quickly exposed.](https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/10/05/aclu-speaker-shouted-down-william-mary) What is it that you think is being “exposed” here? Is this the anti-free-speech committee of the Democratic Party doing all the shouting? And this ACLU that is being so ruthlessly suppressed here – are they lackeys of the left or the right? Help me out here, because there seems to be some considerable confusion on that score. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/357 "2017-12-18T05:11:10Z")
Well, is that not the answer though? We ask what good eliminating net neutrality will be, and the answer is “_you stupid lefties_”. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/358 "2017-12-18T05:20:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Me too. > > But “appealing to the better natures,” of window breakers, and remonstrating with them as to the social cost and impact of the broken windows doesn’t work. I’m pretty sure it has a better record than supply-side economics. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/359 "2017-12-18T05:25:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > BWAHAHAHA!!! > > Be fair to everyone that precisely and completely agrees with them, sure. > > But when the ACLU speaker tries to speak: [the scope of the "fairness,’ is quickly exposed.](https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/10/05/aclu-speaker-shouted-down-william-mary) So much for logic then by reaching for a fallacy to make a “point” > **[Nutpicking](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nutpicking)** > > Nutpicking is the fallacious tactic of picking out and showcasing the nuttiest member(s) of a group as the best representative(s) of that group — hence, "picking the nut". And no, there has not been a good reply to what the BBC or Wired reported on the issue. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/360 "2017-12-18T06:23:16Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Why isn’t promoting the general welfare as it deals with interstate commerce a concern of the government’s? Promoting the general welfare doesn’t mean what you think it does. It most certainly doesn’t mean whatever damn fool idea that pops into someone’s head, such as that they have some sort of “right” to internet access. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522.md?page=19)