# FCC Repeals Net Neutrality Rule **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522 "2017-12-14T18:35:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/481 "2017-12-20T17:43:19Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Meanwhile, in the developed world, [an announcement today:](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/dec/20/high-speed-broadband-to-be-legal-right-for-uk-homes-and-businesses) Of the G20 nations, only Italy and India have higher taxes on income than the UK. You say “developed,” with the implication that the United States is deficient in this regard. And I guess we are, if you believe that development means that everyone is entitled to the same stuff regardless of whether or not they can afford it. I don’t. I regard that view as destructive to innovation and development. But it’s your opinion to have. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/482 "2017-12-20T17:45:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > “Less regulation is better,” is the reason. Why am I not allowed to use that as a reason? As it is a faith-based argument, held without evidence, it is perfectly acceptable for this forum. Few argue that, and those that do are wrong. On the other hand, this faith-based, no evidence provided belief is a poor guide for public policy. Which is, in fact, a point many have made here. Goalposts: moved back into position! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/483 "2017-12-20T17:48:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t. I regard that view as destructive to innovation and development. What’s your take on the Eisenhower interstate system? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/484 "2017-12-20T18:02:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And I guess we are, if you believe that development means that everyone is entitled to the same stuff regardless of whether or not they can afford it. > > I don’t. I regard that view as destructive to innovation and development. You’re of a generation that accepted the free market as part of their American identity. That _free market_ has long since been co-opted by the oligarths through ownership of the political class - but, like with healthcare, it’s something so tied to personal identity some folks can’t re-calibrate their thinking. You live in an oligarchy dressed as a free market democracy. Net neutrality only confirms that further. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/485 "2017-12-20T18:15:55Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > You’re of a generation that accepted the free market as part of their American identity. And damn proud of it. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/486 "2017-12-20T18:24:00Z")
Of course you are. A lot of politicians made big money relying on exactly that. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/487 "2017-12-20T18:29:10Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What’s your take on the Eisenhower interstate system? I don’t speak for anyone, but it is very clear that the interstate system was a play to subsidize automobile manufacturers. It has clearly been an ecological disaster on par with the central planning ecological disasters in the Soviet Union. It enabled white flight and urban sprawl and crowded out more efficient transportation systems. There is no telling how much more efficient an alternate history transportation system would be or what it would look like absent govt intervention. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/488 "2017-12-20T18:33:27Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I don’t speak for anyone, but it is very clear that the interstate system was a play to subsidize automobile manufacturers. It has clearly been an ecological disaster on par with the central planning ecological disasters in the Soviet Union. It enabled white flight and urban sprawl and crowded out more efficient transportation systems. > > There is no telling how much more efficient an alternate history transportation system would be or what it would look like absent govt intervention. And of course there is the extraordinary cost of the automobile industry in relation to climate change - how much is kowtowing to that industry going to cost future generations … ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/489 "2017-12-20T19:37:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And damn proud of it. Because lack of perception is definitely something to be proud of. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/490 "2017-12-20T19:57:52Z")
Th thing a lot of guys like Bricker never got was it was always socialism for the rich and pure capitalism for everyone else - even the 2007/8 crisis didn’t shift them ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/491 "2017-12-20T20:53:05Z")
The statists big hope for the future of the internet is for our internet service system to have the same level of innovation our transportation infrastructure has witnessed over the last 60 years. Dream big guys. Maybe if we are lucky we will avoid the carnage our subsidized mode of transport has delivered for generations. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/492 "2017-12-20T22:41:15Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Because lack of perception is definitely something to be proud of. On the contrary, my perception is generally correct, and certainly more correct than the claim that the free market has been “co-opted by the oligarths through ownership of the political class.” I suppose the Trilateral Commission and the Bilderbergers were involved? And the Illuminati, I expect. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/493 "2017-12-20T22:42:19Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Because lack of perception is definitely something to be proud of. Not everybody sees it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/494 "2017-12-20T23:06:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > On the contrary, my perception is generally correct, and certainly more correct than the claim that the free market has been “co-opted by the oligarths through ownership of the political class.” > > I suppose the Trilateral Commission and the Bilderbergers were involved? And the Illuminati, I expect. You supposition is clearly disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/495 "2017-12-20T23:07:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > “Less regulation is better,” is the reason. Why am I not allowed to use that as a reason? …I find it hard to reconcile your stance with Net Neutrality with your stance on voter ID. Voter fraud is a problem so insignificant as to be negligible. Yet you support new laws and regulations to address a non-existent problem. Is less regulation _always_ better? Or is it only better on this occasion? How do you personally determine when less regulation is better and when it isn’t? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/496 "2017-12-20T23:10:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > On the contrary, my perception is generally correct, and certainly more correct than the claim that the free market has been “co-opted by the oligarths through ownership of the political class.” Your perception is not likely to be correct in this case: > **[The FCC Wants to Kill Net Neutrality and End the Open Internet. If It Does,...](https://www.wired.com/story/fcc-wants-to-kill-net-neutrality-congress-will-pay-the-price/)** > > Opinion: The FCC's move is an unprecedented giveaway to ISPs and a danger to the internet. > [@](#): > > Pai’s plan to repeal net neutrality provisions and reclassify broadband providers from “common carriers” to “information services” is an unprecedented giveaway to big broadband providers and a danger to the internet. The move would mean the FCC would have almost no oversight authority over broadband providers like Comcast, Verizon, and AT&T. > > For years, those broadband providers have used lawsuits and agency filings to fight FCC oversight and overturn its authority to prevent net neutrality abuses. But never in those companies’ most feverish dreams did they expect an FCC chair would propose to demolish all net neutrality protections and allow ISPs to extract tolls from every business in the country. > [@](#): > > If Congress allows Pai’s plan to pass, all that will be left of FCC oversight of broadband providers is a weak disclosure requirement: If Verizon, for example, wants to block content, charge sites to be viewable on its network, or create paid fast lanes, the company will simply have to tell its subscribers in their contract’s fine print. (Broadband providers won’t have to disclose, and the FCC won’t have control over, the sneakier ways they’ve found to mess with the internet.) > > Enforcement will be left to the Federal Trade Commission, an agency that’s never enforced open internet rules and has no ability to formulate its own. The FTC won’t even be able to protect consumers against most net neutrality violations after the fact, and nor will it be able to protect consumers against greedy broadband providers. > [@](#): > > Today, small and medium-size businesses rely on a myriad online business services for internal communications, sales, and accounting, to name just a few. Slack, Dropbox, Gusto, Quickbooks, and thousands more would have to pay access charges and fast-lane fees, costs they would likely have to pass to their customers. > > Non-mainstream media news sources across the political spectrum would no longer be able to afford to compete in the marketplace of ideas. Even churches that now reach their members online with streaming sermons, video libraries, and online video chats, would no longer be protected from blocking or access fees. > > Americans understand this and are rightly freaking out. > > Since the order was released, they’ve flooded Congress with more than half a million calls, and that’s only counting calls placed through the site [BattleForTheNet.com](http://BattleForTheNet.com). > \*\* > The citizen outrage crosses party lines; net neutrality is more popular than both parties combined. A poll this summer found that 77 percent of Americans support the current protections, including 73 percent of Republicans.\*\* > > This is not surprising. History has shown that internet freedom is the new third rail of US politics. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/497 "2017-12-21T01:38:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > “Less regulation is better,” is the reason. Why am I not allowed to use that as a reason? Please see financial crisis of 2008. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/498 "2017-12-21T04:36:28Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Please see financial crisis of 2008. The one caused by Barney Frank’s addition of language forcing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to buy low-quality mortgages in the name of affordable housing? THAT financial crisis was caused by, of course, government meddling. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/499 "2017-12-21T04:37:45Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Your perception is not likely to be correct in this case: > > [The FCC Wants to Kill Net Neutrality. But Congress Will Pay the Price | WIRED](https://www.wired.com/story/fcc-wants-to-kill-net-neutrality-congress-will-pay-the-price/) Astroturfing. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/500 "2017-12-21T04:40:36Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I find it hard to reconcile your stance with Net Neutrality with your stance on voter ID. Voter fraud is a problem so insignificant as to be negligible. Yet you support new laws and regulations to address a non-existent problem. > > Is less regulation _always_ better? Or is it only better on this occasion? How do you personally determine when less regulation is better and when it isn’t? Your question confuses government-as-actor with government-as-mediator. In the voting realm, the government is the one conducting the business. I have no concerns about “regulation,” promulgated by the government to regulate its own internal processes. In the Internet realm, the government is simply a rule-maker, and it is that role that I argue should be minimized. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522.md?page=26)