FCC Repeals Net Neutrality Rule

…but people have offered an opinion on an issue that they are extremely familiar with. The only person who seems to be unfamiliar with what net neutrality is seems to be you. People have taken great pains to explain things to you.

If you want to have a successful great debate then being precise in what you want to debate is important. But your OP wasn’t precise and it didn’t clearly delineate your thesis.

I would ask that you not characterize my posts as “whining.” I’m not whining. I haven’t been fooled. Your OP was short and pithy and didn’t address what you actually wanted to debate and I’m just pointing that out. It boggles my mind that rather than accepting that you feel the need to get defensive.

No, there I’d say you’re wrong. They’ve offered an opinion that’s based on the bulk of reporting, which – to no one’s surprise – has elided inconvenient aspects of the FCC power grab and waxed rhapsodic on the fact the with net neutrality gone, poor people will die in the first frost and rich people will cluck their tongues disapprovingly at all the frozen corpsicles.

That’s true, but frankly it suffered a more serious flaw: it ran against preferred lefty orthodoxy. If this second flaw had not been in place, the first would have been of no account, as no one would have immediately construed the OP as something other than what it was.

Querulously complaining? Bellyaching? I mean, I want to cooperate.

Bricker stated from the start that this thread was his version of evidence-less, faith-based witnessing.

So… not really.

It’s almost as if not everyone on this board is a lawyer.

…I think you do the participants of this thread an injustice. They have argued that there has been no power grab. They are offering opinions not “based on the bulk of reporting” but based on their interpretation of the evidence. You’ve posted in Great Debates, and people are debating you. If after 13 pages this is what you think of everybody else, how can we continue to debate you in good faith?

How does the OP run against “lefty orthodoxy?” There isn’t enough in the OP to run against almost anything. Its threadbare. There are a number of conservative posters in this very thread who disagree with you. You’ve barely written an OP. If people are misconstruing it and if, 13 pages later you refuse to clarify it…you can’t blame “lefty orthodoxy.” Take some responsibility yourself.

How about addressing my points as they stand, and leave the characterization of them for the pit.

Since you have to reach for an absurd argument, yes, you are wrong on that too.

Nope, you missed that the first moves towards regulating, so as to continue to have net neutrality, came when the FCC was under the Bush administration. It is once again a partisan issue only because your right wing sources told you it must be a partisan issue.

I’ve just learned that GD is a place for opinions, actually. And at its heart, my point IS an opinion: that the best policy is to let the market alone, and the fewest regulation imposed are best. This means that in my view of the proper role of government, individualized, specific rules to address abuses are much preferred to an overarching regulatory regime.

In my OPINION, that’s the right role of government.

That’s fair. It was a threadbare OP.

But as the thread developed, and I mentioned forbearnce, if someone read that phrase and didn’t understand it, why the hell not ask what I was talking about?

…in my further opinion, GD should be home to opinions supported by evidence: factual assertions from which reasonable inferences are drawn and which compel the opinion in question.

IMHO should in my … er… opinion be home to opinions not enjoying such factual predicates.

Of course I defer to the moderators.

Ok, then as the cite I made last tell us:

I can then say that you still have to learn more to claim that you are the one that has the evidence on your side. It is clear that Trump has selected incompetents and people that wanted to tear down the organizations they lead now, and that it is also silly to not take into account that it is more than partisanship what we have here, it is gross incompetency; and leadership that makes groups like the FCC to ignore history, precedent and even court decisions. What the FCC and the current Republicans that are not worrying about it in congress are doing is actually to be against competition and more in favor of monopolistic practices.

…“preferred” is a pretty wishy-washy standard though, wouldn’t you agree? I prefer plum jam to raspberry jam. But I can accept raspberry jam. Can you accept net neutrality?

And do you think its possible to both agree with your opinion on the right role of government, and to agree with net neutrality?

Why would they? You bought it up 11 pages into a 13 page thread. In your humble opinion its an exemplar of your argument: but so what? You haven’t made a strong case that its relevant. And we don’t have to address every point that you make.

So you are saying there should be a higher bar of expertise for sharing one’s opinion in a forum designed for the sharing and discussion of opinions, which ought to consist of a certain level of proficiency with telecommunications law in this example; as compared to the low bar of expertise for selecting elected representatives at all levels of our government, which consists of a bare minimum of life experience.

I have (still) no idea how you’re using the phrase “net neutrality.” Is it synonymous with the classification of ISPs under Title II?

If you admit it’s just an opinion, then it’s not a moral. It’s not something that must be. It is something you are willing to allow others to do. This is why I never express what I am morally sure of as merely an opinion.

There is no reason to not support net neutrality unless you plan to do something that violates it. And, if you do something that violates it, that inherently means that someone is doing something that gives them an unfair advantage. That is wrong, and thus means that we need the rules to stop it.

The only way not to need a rule is if no one ever would violate it anyways. But then there’s no harm in having the rule.

If that moral certitude messes with something that is merely your opinion, then your opinion should bend.

…“still have no idea?” How on earth was I supposed to discern that?

Since this is your thread: how about you define net neutrality for the rest of us?

“The reclassification of ISPs from Title I (‘information service providers’) to Title II (‘common carriers’) under the provisions of the Telecommunications Act, the application of common carrier rules thereunder, for the purpose of regulating prioritization of content.”

This is so ridiculous. If a cop asks me if I have any drugs on me, maybe I will express total confusion on what he means, and if pressed, I will cite the definition of “drug” from the Pure Food and Drug Act of 1906.

Does an opposition to overarching government regulation prevent support for a flat tax? It’d be one rule with broad application, not some narrowly-tailored construct recognizing nuances and exceptions.

Why?

He’s obvious talking about the Controlled Substances Act meaning.

Here, in sharp contrast, everyone that is talking about net neutrality is taking about regulations that were, in fact, imposed under Title II. See?

There is a difference between your restatement and the present case, but I’m not a defender of the flat tax, so what do I care?

So sure, whatever.

I gather the Title II regulations already existed; they were not invented for the ISPs - the ISPs were just put into that category alongside existing Title II companies. Are the ISPs so different from them that the grouping was inappropriate from the start?