# FCC votes 3-2 to relax cross-ownership rules -- but Congress may override **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 18, 2007, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515 "2007-12-18T22:44:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/1 "2007-12-18T22:44:47Z")
Followup on [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=440691) thread from October. After touring the nation to hear citizens’ input at town meetings where the opinions expressed were overwhelmingly **against** the proposal to relax the rules preventing the same company from owning both a newspaper and a broadcast outlet in the same market, and after sharp criticism in Congressional committee hearings, and despite strong urgings to at least delay the vote (see [here](http://www.democracynow.org/2007/12/17/fcc_chair_kevin_martin_refuses_to) for all of that), the FCC went ahead with the vote – which came down along party lines, the 3 Pub commissioners, including Chairman Martin, voting for the change, the 2 Dems against. [But it’s not over yet:](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?pid=261350) > [@](#): > > Martin’s move, while very much in line with the Bush’s administration’s radical pro-corporate agenda, goes against every signal the FCC has gotten from Congress, which is responsible for establishing regulations regarding the ownership of the public’s airwaves. > > “The FCC has never attempted such a brazen act of defiance against Congress,” argued Adelstein, in a passionate condemnation of the commission’s actions. “Like the Titanic, we are steaming at full speed despite repeated warnings of danger ahead. We should have slowed down rather than put everything at risk.” > > The response to that risk must come from Congress. > > Before the vote, 26 members of the Senate – a quarter of the chamber’s members – notified the commission that they would “immediately move legislation that will revoke and nullify the proposed rule.” > > The senators making that promise are the key players on communications policy in the chamber, including Commerce Committee chair Daniel Inouye, D-Hawaii, and the vice chairman of that committee, Ted Stevens, R-Alaska. So they can make the move. So, will – and should – Congress override this decision by the FCC? ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/2 "2007-12-18T23:25:52Z")
Can Bush veto whatever Congress does about this? If so, then congressional action here will amount to, to borrow a phrase from Rev. Johnson in _Blazing Saddles_, “just jerking off”. Congress should do it, but I fear the attempt will be pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/3 "2007-12-18T23:29:32Z")
I’m always amazed that in this day of incredibly varied media (broadcast cable and TV, cable TV, satellite radio, the Internet, podcasts, alternative newspapers, traditional newspapers, blogs, etc.) that this relatively modest FCC proposal stirs up such anger. The government should have no regulation about media ownership. As it has shown in the past, it is easy to use those rules to intimidate speech it does not like. The ostensible reason for them (to somehow perpetuate differing views) is obsolete in this age of increasing technological choice. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/4 "2007-12-18T23:31:12Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] After touring the nation to hear citizens’ input at town meetings where the opinions expressed were overwhelmingly **against** the proposal to relax the rules preventing the same company from owning both a newspaper and a broadcast outlet in the same market, and after sharp criticism in Congressional committee hearings, and despite strong urgings to at least delay the vote (see [here](http://www.democracynow.org/2007/12/17/fcc_chair_kevin_martin_refuses_to) for all of that)… [/QUOTE] I can’t seem to find support in that link for the claim that “…at town meetings … the opinions expressed were overwhelmingly **against** the proposal…” Can you help point that out? Also, are you aware of any neutral polling effort on the issue, and what, if any, results it might have generated? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/5 "2007-12-18T23:48:30Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] I can’t seem to find support in that link for the claim that “…at town meetings … the opinions expressed were overwhelmingly **against** the proposal…” Can you help point that out? [/quote] My mistake. I heard the coverage this afternoon on [WMNF Radio](http://www.wmnf.org/) and heard clips of citizens excoriating Martin at the town meetings – particularly the last one, in Seattle; followed by the Representative for Seattle (forget his name) grilling Martin in a committee hearing for his apparent disregard of everything he heard on his tour; but apparently that was on RadioActivity, not the preceding show, Democracy Now! I’ll call the station during business hours tomorrow and see if there’s an online transcript to which I can link. [QUOTE=Bricker] Also, are you aware of any neutral polling effort on the issue, and what, if any, results it might have generated? [/quote] No, and the story didn’t cover that, only what happened at the town meetings. (Well, [here’s one,](http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20030714/ai_n11411876) but it’s from 2003.) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/6 "2007-12-19T00:01:04Z")
[Columbia Journalism Review](http://www.cjr.org/resources/) Scroll down the left side and see what Time Warner owns. This is duplicated by 5 other companies. Nearly all the media in the country and soon to be the world is being swallowed up by huge corporations. If you believe for one second they wont be pushing their viewpoints you are naive. This is a serious problem. Do you think a whole bunch of newspapers owned by locals would serve their readers better.? Who knows the problems and answers ,those affected or Turner Broadcasting in Atlanta. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/7 "2007-12-19T00:04:39Z")
At any rate, the [_Seattle Times_](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004080133_webfcc18.html) reports: > [@](#): > > More than 800 people packed an FCC hearing on cross-ownership in Seattle last month. Almost all spoke against rule changes that would permit more consolidation. > > On Monday, 25 senators, including four Republicans, sent Martin a letter threatening that if he went ahead with the vote, they would move legislation to revoke the rule and nullify the commission’s action. > > But a letter that surfaced late Monday makes it clear the chairman has the full support of the White House. Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez wrote Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid on Dec. 4 opposing a Senate bill that would have delayed the vote, “or any other attempt to delay or overturn these revised rules by legislative means.” ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/8 "2007-12-19T00:08:50Z")
[QUOTE=Renob] I’m always amazed that in this day of incredibly varied media (broadcast cable and TV, cable TV, satellite radio, the Internet, podcasts, alternative newspapers, traditional newspapers, blogs, etc.) that this relatively modest FCC proposal stirs up such anger. The government should have no regulation about media ownership. As it has shown in the past, it is easy to use those rules to intimidate speech it does not like. The ostensible reason for them (to somehow perpetuate differing views) is obsolete in this age of increasing technological choice. [/QUOTE] I agree. If this was 30 years ago, then I would possibly be concerned. In this day and age, with the internet, there is no way a private business can monopolize what you see and hear. You know when I read the local paper or watch local news? Never (or hardly ever).. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/9 "2007-12-19T00:19:53Z")
[This is interesting:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fcc#Unreleased_reports) > [@](#): > > **Unreleased reports** > > **2003 study of commercial radio concentration** > In 2003, the FCC Media Bureau produced a draft report analyzing the impact of deregulation in the radio industry.[5] The report stated that from March 1996 through March 2003, the number of commercial radio stations on the air rose 5.9 percent while the number of station owners fell 35 percent. The concentration of ownership followed a 1996 rewrite of telecommunications law that eliminated a 40-station national ownership cap. > > The report was never made public, nor have any similar analyses followed, despite the fact that radio industry reports were released in 1998, 2001 and 2002. In September 2006, Senator Barbara Boxer, who had received a copy of the report, released it.[6] > **2004 study of television media concentration** > > In 2004, the FCC ordered its staff to destroy all copies of a draft study by Keith Brown and Peter Alexander, two economists in the FCC’s Media Bureau. The two had analyzed a database of 4,078 individual news stories broadcast in 1998, showed local ownership of television stations adds almost five and one-half minutes of total news to broadcasts and more than three minutes of “on-location” news. > > The conclusion of the study was at odds with FCC arguments made when it voted in 2003 to increase the number of television stations a company could own in a single market. (In June 2004, a federal appeals court rejected the agency’s reasoning on most of the rules and ordered it to try again.) > > In September 2006, Senator Barbara Boxer, who had received a copy of the report “indirectly from someone within the FCC who believed the information should be made public,” wrote a letter to FCC Chairman Kevin Martin, asked whether any other commissioners “past or present” knew of the report’s existence and why it was never made public. She also asked whether it was “shelved because the outcome was not to the liking of some of the commissioners and/or any outside powerful interests?” Boxer’s office said if she does not receive adequate answers to her questions, she will push for an investigation by the FCC inspector general.[7] ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/10 "2007-12-19T00:48:00Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] [http://www.cjr.org/resources/](http://www.cjr.org/resources/) Scroll down the left side and see what Time Warner owns. This is duplicated by 5 other companies. Nearly all the media in the country and soon to be the world is being swallowed up by huge corporations. If you believe for one second they wont be pushing their viewpoints you are naive. This is a serious problem. Do you think a whole bunch of newspapers owned by locals would serve their readers better.? Who knows the problems and answers ,those affected or Turner Broadcasting in Atlanta. [/QUOTE] “Nearly all the media” is to be swallowed up by large corporations, huh? So no more blogs or alternative newspapers or podcasts or satellite radio? And how do you know they will be “pushing their viewpoints”? They will be putting out what’s profitable. Even the hated Clear Channel runs Air America (or ran it, is Air America still on the air?). And who cares about broadcast TV and radio and newspapers? The vast majority of people have cable TV and access to the Internet. If the same person owns a local TV station and the local paper that doesn’t mean that people have no access to alernative viewpoints. And, given the decreasing profitability of newspapers, with the cap in place it’s likely that in ten to twenty years we’ll see far fewer local papers around. Without deep pockets to buy them and streamline their operation, newspapers will likely be unprofitable. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/11 "2007-12-19T00:57:05Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] My mistake. I heard the coverage this afternoon on [WMNF Radio](http://www.wmnf.org/) and heard clips of citizens excoriating Martin at the town meetings – particularly the last one, in Seattle; followed by the Representative for Seattle (forget his name) grilling Martin in a committee hearing for his apparent disregard of everything he heard on his tour; but apparently that was on RadioActivity, not the preceding show, Democracy Now! I’ll call the station during business hours tomorrow and see if there’s an online transcript to which I can link. [/quote] That’d be great – but even from your description, it’s far from definite that an overwhelming majority at these town meetings were against the proposal… and that would certainly not match the 2003 poll results you linked to, where only 50 ercent said they thought the effect would be negative. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/12 "2007-12-19T01:13:09Z")
[QUOTE=Renob] “Nearly all the media” is to be swallowed up by large corporations, huh? So no more blogs or alternative newspapers or podcasts or satellite radio? And how do you know they will be “pushing their viewpoints”? They will be putting out what’s profitable. Even the hated Clear Channel runs Air America (or ran it, is Air America still on the air?). And who cares about broadcast TV and radio and newspapers? The vast majority of people have cable TV and access to the Internet. If the same person owns a local TV station and the local paper that doesn’t mean that people have no access to alernative viewpoints. And, given the decreasing profitability of newspapers, with the cap in place it’s likely that in ten to twenty years we’ll see far fewer local papers around. Without deep pockets to buy them and streamline their operation, newspapers will likely be unprofitable. [/QUOTE] ``` Who owns cable TV. The only thing they do not run is the internet and they plan on taking care of that. ``` Newspapers average 18 to 20% profit. They are laying off reporters and cutting bureaus. They will process the news and ship it around the country. There was an incident a couple years ago, where there was a train accident. It was not a big city. Hazardous chemicals were being released. Efforts were made to call the radio stations to get a notice aired. The station had no personnel it was run remotely from a distant location. Someone came in and checked the station now and then. Local news is disappearing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/13 "2007-12-19T01:14:22Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] There was an incident a couple years ago, where there was a train accident. It was not a big city. Hazardous chemicals were being released. Efforts were made to call the radio stations to get a notice aired. The station had no personnel it was run remotely from a distant location. Someone came in and checked the station now and then. Local news is disappearing. [/QUOTE] That kind of story is important, but would carry more weight with a cite. (Actually, I think I remember reading about it – maybe in one of Al Franken’s books, but I’m not sure.) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/14 "2007-12-19T01:16:17Z")
I read it several places. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/15 "2007-12-19T01:21:15Z")
[http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/english/200007/25/eng20000725\_46370.html](http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/english/200007/25/eng20000725_46370.html) Newspapers are definitely a profitable business. When the conglomerates took over TV they cut the reporting bureaus and laid off reporters. The local owners were often interested in providing the news. The new owners want to maximize profits. The quality of news and the differences in stories has diminished. Few stations have Washington or International bureaus any more. real news is slipping badly. I do not think that it is a good thing for America. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/16 "2007-12-19T01:42:09Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] [http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/english/200007/25/eng20000725\_46370.html](http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/english/200007/25/eng20000725_46370.html) Newspapers are definitely a profitable business. When the conglomerates took over TV they cut the reporting bureaus and laid off reporters. The local owners were often interested in providing the news. The new owners want to maximize profits. The quality of news and the differences in stories has diminished. Few stations have Washington or International bureaus any more. real news is slipping badly. I do not think that it is a good thing for America. [/QUOTE] That makes no sense. Years ago, I had to wait until the 6pm evening news to see what was going on. Now, I can get up to the minute stories sent by text message to my cell phone at any time, from the site of my choice: conservative, liberal, libertarian, communist, or fascist, or neutral. “Real news” is not slipping badly. If you are taking the old arrogant journalist view (I’m looking at you Walter Kronkite) then sure, you don’t have your old masters telling you what the “real” news is anymore. You can find out for yourself with blogs, podcasts, and diverse websites. The old idea that if the local TV station and the local paper conspire to create a brain dead local population is over. You can read a news story from your home in Nome, AK about the price of vegetables in Rome, Italy. We don’t need government intrustion in this area.. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/17 "2007-12-19T02:00:38Z")
Local TV has never been very good with the news. They do provide local slants to local stories. The network news used to be very good. they have turned to crap. The internet is still available . Rest assured they will come for it. It is however work to winnow through the internets. how many take the time. Plus the internet is not available to all like TV. An example of news control is,how many stations cable or network came out against the Iraq war. It was practically universal. All stations fell in line. I read counter opinions on the net but they were not numerous. i was convinced it was a lie but who else thought so. None of them did their homework and investigated. But the bureaus and reporters were long gone. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/18 "2007-12-19T03:03:23Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] In 2003, the FCC Media Bureau produced a draft report analyzing the impact of deregulation in the radio industry.[5] The report stated that from March 1996 through March 2003, the number of commercial radio stations on the air rose 5.9 percent while the number of station owners fell 35 percent. [/QUOTE] Terrestrial radio isn’t quite dead, but it’s very unhealthy. These are the sorts of ownership numbers I’d expect from a slowly dying business model. Who listens to regular radio anymore? Okay, that’s an exagerration, many people still do - but it’s declining. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/19 "2007-12-19T03:20:41Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] I read it several places. [/QUOTE] That’s a really crappy cite. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515/20 "2007-12-19T03:22:14Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] An example of news control is,how many stations cable or network came out against the Iraq war. It was practically universal. All stations fell in line. [/QUOTE] Are you suggesting that all news stations should stake out overtly political positions, and that the failure to do so constitutes evidence of “news control?” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-votes-3-2-to-relax-cross-ownership-rules-but-congress-may-override/430515.md?page=2)