# Fear and Loathing In Bagdad **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 17, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938 "2004-01-17T16:12:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/41 "2004-01-18T14:26:31Z")
Shut the fuck up, **Ellis**. **Aldebaran** is at least trying to argue a position. You have no position, just crap. Your posts are mostly content-free one liners. I offer a sample of your most recent ones: > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Batman, if he’s … never mind. > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Hey, I liked that film! > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > I’m not an alien! > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Liberace was gay? > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > I don’t think much of Krispy Kremes. I also wish they would spell words correctly. > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Please bring back the old color scheme if possible. Please? And I’d like a pony. > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > I always get my man. > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > I’d like to see that one, actually. > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > You are Kurdt Kobain and I claim my $50. > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Gah! She stole my dad’s forearm! > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Style, mayhaps? > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > How do I unbend my Wookie? > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > I live in a studio apartment. My bedroom has no door. > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Juggling ginsu knives is hard. > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Michael Ellis - Never Mentioned by other people. (Besides Mr. Ilsa) > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > It’s full of Germans. > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Ride of the Valkyries. > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > So Greek Amazons with Brazilians would get a PG-13 rating? > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Human flesh recipies. Any known? > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Yep. > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > I got spam for a Jessica Simpson sex video. Just enter your credit card info first. > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > I predict this thread is not long for this world. > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > So, how about them Giants, eh? > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Ah, they’re 1920’s style “Death balls”. > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Do I look fat in this? Be honest. > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Mail her a bill. > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > I mean, that doesn’t really work, does it? Shove your death ray up your ass, and pull the trigger until it goes “click”. ---
**Author:** ![Idlewild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8491ac/32.png) [@Idlewild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idlewild)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/42 "2004-01-18T14:36:49Z")
I am not comfortable using the dead as political pawns. I am what tends to be known as a bleeding-heart liberal, and you might say that the deaths of civillians in Iraq has caused me quite sufficient grief. Yet it is possible also to feel great grief and sadness for the families of the young men and women who went over to serve their country and are not coming home. I might very well not agree with the reasons they were sent, and frankly at this point all I desire is for the greatest number to make it home safely to their families and friends, but I can still grieve that they went to do what they believed was their duty, and that they fell. I hesitate very greatly to cite one particular person, because I know he’d hate to be used to score a debating point, and I do not cite him in order to convince **Aldebaran** or anyone else of the rightness of my position, but he is no longer alive to speak for himself - I will say that at least one brave young man believed that he was over there doing his best to ensure the future freedom and well-being of the Iraqi children. He knew that things were very bad in the short term, but he believed that they would be better off with Saddam gone. No matter how great my grief at the costs of this war to the Iraqi people, I respect and mourn that young man, and the other young men and women who have been killed while serving over there. I do not wish to use sweeping emotional rhetoric, I do not wish to dishonour the families of anyone, Iraqi or from any other nation, who have died in this conflict, by capitalising on their death to make my point. Whatever the political justices or injustices of the situation, surely our humanity calls upon us to show empathy for those who suffer. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/43 "2004-01-18T14:42:19Z")
> [@CheekyMonkey613](#): > > Make that the second person. May I remind you of a famous quote: > > **"If you are not with us, you’re against us."** - George W. Bush > > Then again, Revtim … To my knowledge, GWB hasn’t found this board. So I guess you’re right. Since GWB is a man who doesn’t read newspapers and is somehow proud of that, I’d say the the SDMB is pretty safe from him ever logging on. You have to be at least a little intellectually curious to be here. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/44 "2004-01-18T14:50:15Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > Shut the fuck up, **Ellis**. **Aldebaran** is at least trying to argue a position. You have no position, just crap. Your posts are mostly content-free one liners. I offer a sample of your most recent ones: > Shove your death ray up your ass, and pull the trigger until it goes “click”. Somebody’s got a full diaper. ---
**Author:** ![eli\_the\_fanatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@eli\_the\_fanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eli_the_fanatic)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/45 "2004-01-18T14:52:24Z")
Mrs. Ellis, Michael is crying for a diaper change. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/46 "2004-01-18T14:53:27Z")
> [@fushj00mang](#): > > The Honor in our passing will be in the fact that we laid down our lives for our Country, our God (in any and all of His names), and in seeking to bring Freedom to other human beings who have seen nothing but tyranny and bloodshead for over a quarter-century. Thank you for your perspective, **fushj00mang** , I wish you all the best and hope for your safe return. I am particularly interested in what most soldiers feel the mission there is. Do most agree with you that the goal is to bring freedom to the people of Iraq? Did they start their tours with the same view, or did they start mostly thinking it was to eliminate a threat to the US and/or Iraq’s neighbors? ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/47 "2004-01-18T14:54:29Z")
> [@eli\_the\_fanatic](#): > > Mrs. Ellis, Michael is crying for a diaper change. Yeah. Sure. Whatever you say. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/48 "2004-01-18T14:55:19Z")
> [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Somebody’s got a full diaper. I wasn’t suggesting that your diaper is full of shit. It’s your head that’s full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/49 "2004-01-18T14:57:53Z")
> [@Idlewild](#): > > I will say that at least one brave young man believed that he was over there doing his best to ensure the future freedom and well-being of the Iraqi children. He knew that things were very bad in the short term, but he believed that they would be better off with Saddam gone. No matter how great my grief at the costs of this war to the Iraqi people, I respect and mourn that young man, and the other young men and women who have been killed while serving over there. You have every right to make this statement. I offer you my sympathy for your loss . I don’t argue here the fact that many of those soldiers were sent there in the misleading belief that the goal was to “free” the Iraqis. There is a lot to be said about that but that is not the discussion here (I think). I argue here the fact that they choosed freely to join the army. Thus they are only doing their (payed) job and I don’t see why they should be called a hero for merely doing the job they choosed. > [@](#): > > Whatever the political justices or injustices of the situation, surely our humanity calls upon us to show empathy for those who suffer. The difference in this is that these US soldiers joined the US army on a voluntary base in time of peace. Seen the history of the US in its mingling in other countries affairs, they surely must have known that they could be called for active duty even when there was no attack or danger to the territory of the USA itself. They thus made the choice to take the risk to suffer and eventually be killed. Most probably in many cases the same can not be said about their relatives and friends who are affected by this. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/50 "2004-01-18T14:58:30Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > I wasn’t suggesting that your diaper is full of shit. It’s your head that’s full of shit. Well, it takes one to know one, I guess. Anyway, did you even read the threads those posts were in or did you just grab them thinking “Ah, another one-liner!” and jerking yourself to climax over your own cleverness? ---
**Author:** ![E72521](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dbc845/32.png) [@E72521](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E72521)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/51 "2004-01-18T15:04:02Z")
> [@fushj00mang](#): > > E72521. Your foot and my ass would make good buddies, you know that? Why do you think I’d want to put my foot up your ass? > [@](#): > > Point one: Not a goddamned one of us over here would give a rats ass about our Commander-in-Chief being at our funerals if we were to die today, tomorrow, or next week in Iraq (or Turkey, Qutar, Korea, or anywhere within NATO or the USA.) The Honor in our passing will be in the fact that we laid down our lives for our Country, our God (in any and all of His names), and in seeking to bring Freedom to other human beings who have seen nothing but tyranny and bloodshead for over a quarter-century. I think your anger at me is misdirected, soldier. I’ve served proudly oversees myself. I know that what your commander tells you every morning about why you’re there is different from what our president is telling us back here in the world. That won’t change the mission you’ve been given, but it does matter to me, who prays you’ll be home soon. > [@](#): > > Point two: Where are the flag draped coffins coming off of a Globemaster or Starlifter? Andrews AFB. When I shipped, we took a puddle-jumper to Andrews from Shaw, and then loaded up for Rammstein. We passed two caskets which were being carried by a joint Army/Air Force honor guard. We stood at attention as this solemn procession moved at sixty steps a minute to its transport and the final leg to some son, daughter, aunt, uncle, neice, nephew, father, or mother’s final resting space. No, the President wasn’t there. But in that procession, ALL of America was there. All of the fathers, mothers, sisters, and brothers who have served, do serve, and will serve were standing at attention, along with the forty of us awaiting our ride. We are being shielded from all of that. I’ve been on funeral detail before. I want my kids to be able to see for themselves the end result of war so they will understand that it comes at a very heavy price. > [@](#): > > Point Three: Where do you get off calling somebody spineless because he isn’t out there with us? I didn’t vote for our Commander-in-Chief. No, he’s not over here, in my unit. He’s not in the same country as I am. He’s not out here, facing the threat of death like the Coalition armed forces are, but then again, you’re not either. How fucking old are you? I ask because if you’re between 18 and 29, I’d invite you into my beloved Air Force so that you can prove just how much more sack you’re carrying compared to the President. I think I’m qualified to call the President spineless, not because he’s not in the field with you, but because when he was placed in your situation, he deserted. Guys like you and me wear/wore the uniform so that guys like you and me can say what we want, when we want. [quote] Point Four: Finally, how the fuck do you know what our Commander-In-Chief is thinking?[/qoute]We draw our own conclusions based on his actions. > [@](#): > > I’ve known soldiers, from Airmen Basic to full Generals who sweat every time they think about the folks under their command. The Dorm Chief, an Airman Basic watching over his fellow Airmen Basic to make sure they don’t catch hell from an Instructor. The lonely Staff Sergeant Training Instructor at Lackland, praying every night that his latest flight of trainees will all seperate from the service, whole and healthy. The Lieutenant-Colonel in command of a SP squadron, sending his boys out into the field, knowing that today may just be the day that he has to write a “Deeply Regret” letter to a mother, father, widow, or lover because a 20 year old Senior Airman died, doing his duty to the best of his ability. The General commanding a numbered Air Force, who makes waves and risks his next star to make sure his boys out there get all they need. Me too. > [@](#): > > And finally, The Commander-In-Chief who shares all these concerns because he is human, bleeds red like the rest of us, and while he may not know me nor any of my men, keeps his eye out on every one of us in the way he knows how. Well I think he’s doing a fucked up job of watching out for your best interests. Unlike him, most of us back in the world think of your sacrifice every day. Its harder for me to swallow the death of one of your comrades in arms. You’re not a trivialized collateral damage statistic to me. Know that we are proud of your service, love every one of you guys, and wait for a triumphant and glorious return home soon. > [@](#): > > Just like on that tarmac, watching two flag draped caskets pass us on eight pairs of uniformed shoulders, ALL of these men and women are with us. And I don’t care who the fuck you are, because unless you’re a soulless, gutless, worthless piece of subhuman genetic shit, you’re with us too. Just remember, dear soldier, that we who oppose the war in Iraq don’t minimize your commitment to duty. As the father of two children in your 18 to 29 range, I care very much about the well being of the kids sent over there. Everyday, I try to imagine the pain that a parent getting “the letter” feels. I know what its like to be homesick and scared shitless. Yeah, I got the sack. So what? If I could replace you or someone like you, I would. I can’t, so it doesn’t matter. The whole point of my post is that I’m completely outraged at the disrespect the POTUS has for the military and those who serve proudly by keeping us shielded from the end result of his war. I know the culture, and I know soldiers don’t care who goes to their funerals. As a proud American, I do. Now, keep your head low, your hopes high, and god speed. **Aldebaran** I care for the Iraqi people about as much as they care for me. ---
**Author:** ![Jaade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@Jaade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaade)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/52 "2004-01-18T15:05:40Z")
**Desmostylus** , take your rant about **Michael Ellis** elsewhere. Whatever you two have going on has nothing to do with this thread. **fushj00mang** , be careful over there, and I hope you are allowed to return home safely. ~J ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/53 "2004-01-18T15:07:16Z")
> [@Jaade](#): > > **Desmostylus** , take your rant about **Michael Ellis** elsewhere. Whatever you two have going on has nothing to do with this thread. I don’t know what Dessie’s got against me, frankly. I’d be more than happy to end this little hijack of a perfectly good thread. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/54 "2004-01-18T15:08:06Z")
> [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Well, it takes one to know one, I guess. im rubba yoor gloo. Hur hur. > [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Anyway, did you even read the threads those posts were in or did you just grab them thinking “Ah, another one-liner!” and jerking yourself to climax over your own cleverness? I’ve seen quite enough of your posts to know the pattern. You’re as funny as **Ilsa** , **county** , **question** and **Kurdt** combined. That is, not at all. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/55 "2004-01-18T15:18:06Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > I’ve seen quite enough of your posts to know the pattern. So, in other words, “I know I’m right! Who needs facts!?” ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/56 "2004-01-18T15:19:53Z")
**Demo** , I second the request to end the hijack. Why don’t you open another pit thread against **Ellis** and stop polluting this one. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/57 "2004-01-18T15:21:20Z")
> [@E72521](#): > > **Aldebaran** I care for the Iraqi people about as much as they care for me. I’m sorry, but how did you brain produce the arrogant idea that you by any means could claim that they should care for you? Because you believe that you belong to some Superior Human Type or something similar? In my opinion you are saying here that you consider those thousands Iraqi men, women and children blown to pieces by the US and its allies to be even less then gutter dirt and that they were rightfully “cleaned up”, no? Well, you have every right to say that of course. Yet don’t expect me to look at you as someone even deserving the letters I write here or the seconds it takes me for doing it. I guess you are now even surprized reading this. I’m so sorry that I had to shock you like that. Time to come back to earth. With both your feet. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![E72521](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dbc845/32.png) [@E72521](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E72521)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/58 "2004-01-18T15:40:06Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > I’m sorry, but how did you brain produce the arrogant idea that you by any means could claim that they should care for you? Because you believe that you belong to some Superior Human Type or something similar? You need to bone up on english comprehension. I never said that they should care for me. I’m saying I don’t care about them. > [@](#): > > In my opinion you are saying here that you consider those thousands Iraqi men, women and children blown to pieces by the US and its allies to be even less then gutter dirt and that they were rightfully “cleaned up”, no? Your opinion formulating skills are fucked up. > [@](#): > > Well, you have every right to say that of course. The same people fought and died for both of us to have that right. > [@](#): > > Yet don’t expect me to look at you as someone even deserving the letters I write here or the seconds it takes me for doing it. You prove yourself to be a liar by taking the time to type it. > [@](#): > > I guess you are now even surprized reading this. Not at all. > [@](#): > > I’m so sorry that I had to shock you like that. Thank you for your concern. I got over it. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/59 "2004-01-18T15:50:46Z")
> [@](#): > > The Honor in our passing will be in the fact that we laid down our lives for our Country, our God What the fuck does the invasion of Iraq have to with either God or your country? Jesus, that’s about the most retarded fucking thing I’ve ever read on this board. You actually think you’re fighting for GOD?? You are a moron. I got news for you, Sparky, you’re fighting for GWB’s approval ratings. Your CIC is a fucking liar and a deserter. Does that bother you at all. Do you care that he’s willing to kill you to win an election? Pull your fucking head out of your ass, you fucking slave. ---
**Author:** ![eli\_the\_fanatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@eli\_the\_fanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eli_the_fanatic)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2004, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938/60 "2004-01-18T15:54:49Z")
> [@Michael Ellis](#): > > Yeah. Sure. Whatever you say. One good infantile slam deserves another. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-and-loathing-in-bagdad/224938.md?page=4)