# Fear Itself, Don't Give Legal Advice When You Don't Know What You're Talking About **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2006, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105 "2006-09-01T18:58:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/21 "2006-09-01T20:11:37Z")
Semantics seem to be very important in legal matters. Just saying… ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/22 "2006-09-01T20:13:49Z")
[QUOTE=Enginerd] Semantics seem to be very important in legal matters. Just saying… [/QUOTE] Really? Are you an attorney? _NO?_ How dare you offer that opinion! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/23 "2006-09-01T20:18:37Z")
Something similiar happened to my father-he originally had to turn down his current job because his former employer threatened to sue him over a contract he had assigned about not taking a job with a competitor. (Even though my father was advised by a lawyer when he signed it that such agreements weren’t legal in PA). My dad didn’t know if he’d win the court case, and had to turn down the job. Well, surprise, surprise, two years later, their second choice wasn’t working out, and my father was no longer under the contract (even though he had to give up his yearly bonus for not signing another one). So it worked out in this case. But yeah, **Fear Itself** is obviously full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/24 "2006-09-01T20:19:51Z")
FEAR ITSELF – > [@](#): > > It seems you do want to bust my chops. Note to self: never take a lawyer at her word, even when it is in writing. I’m busting your chops _now_, because having been informed that your statement was at best unsubstantiated by the facts as we know them and at worse wrong, you choose to continue to defend it. Think of it this way: I will excuse an unintentionlly fart; I will not continue to excuse intentional farting. > [@](#): > > After all that, it turns out I was right after all, with respect to the OP who lives in New York. Gosh, that’s good news for the OP’er, isn’t it? In general, however, like “socks first, then the shoes,” it’s a good idea to remember “research first, then answer.” Because if you answer first and _then_ do the research, you may well find out you were wrong. Even if it ends up you were right, you weren’t knowledgeable, you were just lucky. As it turns out, however, it is _still_ by no means clear you were right. The very site you link to goes on to say: > [@](#): > > There are excepts to this general tendency of New York courts. A court might enforce an employment non-compete to the extent needed to protect the employer’s proprietary information, such as trade secrets, or very difficult to construct customer lists. Courts might enforce employment non-competes in which the employee is compensated for the time the employee is out of the market. > > It is true that whether you can successfully challenge a non-compete to a degree depends on the wording of the agreement, but my experience is that the wording of the agreement is not usually the critical issue. The more important issues seem to be the nature of the employer’s business and the nature of the employees’ jobs. The nature of the geographic and product market that the employer serves might also be relevant. In this case, we don’t know if a non-compete even exists between the current employer (providing the service) and the client/potential future employer. We don’t know the wording of the agreement, the nature of the employers business, the product market, or the geographic area. So your advice is _still_ too broad. > [@](#): > > So save your windbaggery for the courtroom, Counselor. I am not impressed. Gosh, and I _so_ wanted to impress a nonlawyer with nothing better to do than give advice in an area he knows nothing about. If the law gives you such a hard-on and you can’t resist advising on it, go to law school. > [@](#): > > Hey Jodi, how’m I doin? Well, you’re certainly doing better when you acknowledge you don’t actually have the expertise to give the advice you’re giving. I do feel more comfortable letting people take their chances with your shady questionable advice when they know you may be pulling it out your ass. And it is true, as several people have posted, that BUNNY takes her chances if she takes legal advice from a message board. But once it’s been pointed out that your advice is or may be complete shit, “I have the right to post complete shit if I want” seems to be a mighty weak excuse for continuing. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/25 "2006-09-01T20:22:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Semantics. You want a guarantee before anybody ventures an opinion. Bullshit. We want you to have the smallest idea of what you’re talking about before you talk. At the time you (twice) made your indefensible statement regarding her “rights,” you knew jack-shit about what the law was in New York and jack-shit about what she did or where she did it. Asking that you not pull opinions out of your ass is not the same as asking for a guarantee that you are correct. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/26 "2006-09-01T20:24:22Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Really? Are you an attorney? _NO?_ How dare you offer that opinion! [/QUOTE] This is an exceptionally stupid post. No, I’m not an attorney. However, I also didn’t offer legal advice to anybody. You’re dismissing people’s concerns with your post as “semantics,” when semantics will have a significant influence on how the situation will in fact be resolved. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/27 "2006-09-01T20:24:52Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Semantics. You want a guarantee before anybody ventures an opinion. That is just stupid. [/QUOTE] Actually, one of the tacet assumptions here in recent years is that the opinions people offer have some basis in fact. That whole “fighting ignorance” thing, you know. It’s not that we want a guarantee; it’s that we expect you to back up what you say with a cite when it’s first challenged. Given that your answer as provided turns out to be true in part in that jurisdiction in some cases in the opinion of one lawyer does not in any way change the fact that your answer was in fact a WAG with no basis in fact, and that if the OP had taken your answer at face value, might be in a worse place than she is right now. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/28 "2006-09-01T20:25:26Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] And it is true, as several people have posted, that BUNNY takes her chances if she takes legal advice from a message board. But once it’s been pointed out that your advice is or may be complete shit, “I have the right to post complete shit if I want” seems to be a mighty weak excuse for continuing. [/QUOTE] I’ve got news for you Counselor; everything you have ever told a client “might” be complete shit. Unless you have never lost a case; you have lost a case, haven’t you? Was your legal advice “complete shit” because the judge didn’t agree with you? Perhaps all attorneys should throw out their shingles if they lose a single case, because that proves that at least once, they were wrong. We can’t risk that, can we? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/29 "2006-09-01T20:29:45Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] But at least the attorneys wouldn’t have to worry about competition from an internet messageboard; I’m sure it is cutting into their billable hours. [/QUOTE] So your “advice” is based upon: (1) Your ideology regarding “I honestly believe, etc.”, and (2) A personal vendetta seeking to prevent lawyers from collecting fees from their clients. Neither of which is based on knowledge of the law or the OP’s circumstance and is not calculated to help the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/30 "2006-09-01T20:36:12Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] (2) A personal vendetta seeking to prevent lawyers from collecting fees from their clients. [/QUOTE] I don’t know where this came from. Lawyers have the right to collect as much money as their clients will allow. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/31 "2006-09-01T20:41:07Z")
Jodi, nice job. I’ve noticed a tendency, particularly with legal questions, for people with apparently no understanding of the law to weigh in with their opinions and pretend that they’re the law. I find this eminently puzzling; while Fear Itself, in this case, may have a strong opinion, what in the world makes him think that his opinion is the law? There’s simply no explanation for it except to note that a surprising number of people simply don’t recognize the essential difference between what they would _like_ to be true and what _is_ true. I don’t understand this at all, but there’s really no other way to explain why folks like Fear Itself would offer their grotesquely erroneous analyses of things they don’t understand. I’m not sure if it reflects an intellectual disability - some form of mental retardation - or an emotional problem of some sort. But there’s obviously something broken in these people’s brains. [QUOTE=Fear Itself] I am not impressed. If you don’t like it, call the Internet Police. And you will just have to stick around if you want to find out if I am likely to “shut the hell up” just because some ambulance chaser gets her panties in twist. [/QUOTE] The evidence suggests you’re a moron, Fear Itself. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/32 "2006-09-01T20:43:27Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] I’ve got news for you Counselor; everything you have ever told a client “might” be complete shit. [/QUOTE] This is complete crap. _If_ I have all the facts _and_ I have researched the applicable law, there is no way that the advice I give will be “complete shit.” But don’t feel bad – that applies to you as well. If you had had all the facts FIRST and researched the question FIRST, there would have been no way that your advice could have been “complete shit” either. As it happens, if your advice was not complete shit in this case, you were just lucky, because you didn’t have the facts and you didn’t do the research. > [@](#): > > Unless you have never lost a case; you have lost a case, haven’t you? Never. When I worked in the courtroom (until early this year) I practiced civil defense for government entities. As in all civil cases, the vast majority settled. If such a case goes to trial a “loss” is one where the plaintiff is awarded more than you were willing to pay to settle it. Of those I took to trial I never lost one. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. > [@](#): > > Perhaps all attorneys should throw out their shingles if they lose a single case, because that proves that at least once, they were wrong. We can’t risk that, can we? What the fuck are you talking about? I mean, do _you_ even know? There is a huge difference between evaluating the facts and the law and in good faith recommending a course of action that at the end of the day is rejected by a judge, and pulling some extremely broad statement out of your ass _before_ you have the facts or know the law. Expecting you to not state what BUNNY’s rights are when you have no earthly way of knowing, is not the same as saying you (or anyone else) cannot put forth an opinion without a gold-plated guarantee that it is now and will forever more be completely correct. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/33 "2006-09-01T20:45:48Z")
FEAR ITSELF – > [@](#): > > I don’t know where this came from. Lawyers have the right to collect as much money as their clients will allow. Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick!! Do you never _stop_? This is in many cases **WRONG**. **WRONG WRONG WRONG !!!** For fuck’s sake, isn’t there a topic you know something about that you could talk about? ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/34 "2006-09-01T20:46:16Z")
Woooo - Boy! No legal bills for me ---- **ever**!. I’ll just post my legal issues on the SDMB and **Jodi** will protect me from anybody not licensed to practice in my state! I can’t wait to tell all of my pals that the SDMB has flawless legal counsel. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/35 "2006-09-01T20:46:40Z")
wow. a totally justified pitting. Well done, **Jodi** ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/36 "2006-09-01T20:51:16Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ll just post my legal issues on the SDMB and Jodi will protect me from anybody not licensed to practice in my state! > > I can’t wait to tell all of my pals that the SDMB has flawless legal counsel. Gee, BUBBA, I’d think you could see that telling you not to take bad legal advice is not the same as giving you good legal advice myself. If you’re willing to settle for _no_ legal advice, you shouldn’t be incurring any legal bills _now_. I guess I guy named “Bubba” may not see that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/37 "2006-09-01T20:53:49Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick!! Do you never _stop_? This is in many cases **WRONG**. **WRONG WRONG WRONG !!!** [/QUOTE] Jeez, you lawyers must a scream at parties; it was a throw away snark, not legal advice, you twit. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/38 "2006-09-01T20:55:51Z")
Y’all are pissing upstream with regard to **Fear**. He’s like lightning on the savannah–you never know where he’ll strike, but you can bet there will be trouble. He will get nothing out of this pitting. Best just to watch for his inane and ignorant posts and block them on the spot. Consider it an illumination of a devil’s advocate rather than a hijack or derailment. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/39 "2006-09-01T20:59:34Z")
> [@](#): > > it was a throw away snark, not legal advice, you twit. Riiiiiight. “Lawyers have the right to collect as much money as their clients will allow.” That is some withering snark right there! I’m surprised you didn’t say “I was _joking_, sheesh, don’t you lawyers have _a sense of humor?_” ---
**Author:** ![Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Key_Lime_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105/40 "2006-09-01T20:59:47Z")
[QUOTE=Ethilrist] … It’s not that we want a guarantee; it’s that we expect you to back up what you say with a cite when it’s first challenged… [/QUOTE] Isn’t that _exactly what he did?_ [QUOTE=Ethilrist] Given that your answer as provided turns out to be true in part in that jurisdiction in some cases in the opinion of one lawyer does not in any way change the fact that your answer was in fact a WAG with no basis in fact, and that if the OP had taken your answer at face value, might be in a worse place than she is right now. [/QUOTE] Wha?!? If it turned out to be true, how did it have “no basis in fact”? A lot of people here seem to be missing that **Fear Itself** _knew what he was talking about!_ An intelligent opinion/educated guess, proven to be true, is not “lucky” (as **Jodi** called him). And furthermore, its obvious to everyone that he was expressing a generic political opinion when he said that lawyers ought to be able to get as much money as they can for their services. This is just utterly weak piling-on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-itself-dont-give-legal-advice-when-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/371105.md?page=3)