# FEAR ME: I'm a Jew! or \*sigh\* WB strikes again (Exodus) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2001, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624 "2001-10-05T17:21:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/1 "2001-10-05T17:21:22Z")
[Mod Hat: ON] This is a continuation of the discussion going on in: [FEAR ME: I’m a Jew! or _sigh_ WB strikes again](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=90631&pagenumber=5) which was closed due to the length of the thread. [Mod Hat: OFF] ---
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/2 "2001-10-05T21:30:33Z")
I guess I’m late to the “ **portajon** is a fruit-loop” party, but he also spammed me. Yay. What a fuckin’ loon. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/3 "2001-10-05T21:54:18Z")
FENRIS – > [@](#): > > No, Bill, it’s NOT the same God. Your God is part of a Trinity. Father/Son/Holy Ghost. > > To Jewish teachings this is absolutely incorrect. The idea of God being a Trinity is, to me, as incorrect as the idea that Jesus isn’t God’s Son who died and rose is to you. With all due respect, FEN, you have no more right to tell a Christian what his religion means that I have to tell a Jew what his religion means. Christians worship _one_ God, and affirmatively deny the existence of any _other_ gods. To imply that we are polytheistic is pretty close to insulting, even if no insult was meant, and I realize none was. POLY seems to have explicated the Trinity better than I ever could, but allow me to reiterate that, as a Christian, I _do_ worship the God of Abraham, the God of Moses, and the God of Elijah. I also worship the God of Muhammad and the God of the Twelve Disciples. That God. The One God. The only God there is. I affirmatively disavow the existence of any other god. This is the first basis of my faith, just as it is of yours. I think the best thread on the Trinity is [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=40354), though you will see that as is usual with relgious threads, light was shed but no minds were changed. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/4 "2001-10-05T22:47:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > \*\*Christians worship one God, and affirmatively deny the existence of any other gods. To imply that we are polytheistic is pretty close to insulting, even if no insult was meant, and I realize none was. > \*\* **Jodi** (and any other Christians), I apologize. My understanding of what the Trinity was was obviously incorrect. No offense was meant at all. I really did think that the standard Christian doctrine was that there was a Jesus-God, a Father-God and a Holy Spirit-God, seperate and distinct…but they were somehow still all the same person (? It never made sense to me either). The way **Poly** explained it, that’s obviously not even close to the case. This is what I get for listening to bad Christian talk-radio. If I promise to re-read the Narnia series, the Perelanda series, The Great Divorce (maybe Lewis’s best) AND The Screwtape Letters, can I be forgiven? 🙂 What if I throw in some George McDonald? :eek: or will I have to read the turgid Left Behind stuff to atone?! 😉 Fenris ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/5 "2001-10-05T22:59:35Z")
Sorry Fenris, but its for your own good…Left Behind it is. We will expect a book report on it by Wed. And we will check it against the cliff notes, so no cheating. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/6 "2001-10-05T23:23:01Z")
OK, sorry. I’m late. Can someone give me a brief summary? Or does “Wildest Bill said some dumb shit about a religion other than his own again” cover it? ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/7 "2001-10-05T23:25:53Z")
Oh, and to those doubting the trolliness of **portajon** , one should read his responses to me in the [Does HIV cause AIDS?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=90351) thread. Here’s the short version: me: HIV does cause AIDS him: Some people say that you can’t isolate it. me: You can isolate it (cite). **andros** : Put up or shut up. him: OK, here is some hastily copied text from an HIV denier website. me: more cites, virus culture is done all the time – that is basically isolation for all intents and purposes. him: no it isn’t. me: yes it is, here I will debunk one of the websites you copied. him: no it isn’t. Why should I believe you if I don’t know your credentials? Anyway, it was mildly aggravating, although a good medical school review for me. I’m glad that he is gone, though. BTW, I am an agnostic Jew type who is doubly glad to see him gone after a few hit-and-run posts in Israel/Palestine threads in GD. ---
**Author:** ![tradesilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tradesilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tradesilicon)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/8 "2001-10-05T23:26:42Z")
Fenris, if you plan to do some reading, let me just recommend, from e-Jew to r-Jew, you try the New Testament. The stories aren’t as juicy as the Old Testament, but there is a nice ending, and the characters are described in wonderful detail! 😉 [sub](I fully realize Fenris has possibly studied the NewT in great detail, and do not mean in any way, shape or form to insult Fenris. Dang. The disclaimers are getting longer than the posts…)[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/9 "2001-10-05T23:47:07Z")
Not all Christians agree on the Trinity concept. I, for example, believe that there is only one God, who was incarnate as Jesus and touches people as the holy spirit. To me the Trinity concept is somewhat overwrought, it would be kinda like saying that the Jews believe the God as Burning Bush, Pillar of Fire by night and Pillar of Cloud by day, disembodied voice to Abraham and Jacob, and presence in the Ark, etc. One God, One love. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2001, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/10 "2001-10-06T01:00:45Z")
Dammit, I DO count! He DID e-mail me. Now it’s scary. Mods, hold me! [sub]seriously, I blocked the guy’s address. Should I forward it to a mod? It kinda scared me…it wasn’t nasty, but pretty paranoid[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2001, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/11 "2001-10-06T03:22:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > **Should I forward it to a mod?** Yes **Guin** , you probably should. **John** requested in the closed precursor to this thread that you forward it to him, minus the text, which we all got. He also spammed an apology. Something about Zulus. It was even more bizarre and paraniod than the first e-mail. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2001, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/12 "2001-10-06T03:27:11Z")
I’ll do it first thing in the morning-I’m so tired…can’t keep my eyes ope-…zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2001, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/13 "2001-10-06T03:29:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > Or does “Wildest Bill said some dumb shit about a religion other than his own again” cover it? Right the first time. I don’t quite understand the touching faith that some apparently have, that it’s possible in any way that he’ll start thinking. How many times is this now? But, more power to 'em. ---
**Author:** ![HairyPotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@HairyPotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HairyPotter)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2001, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/14 "2001-10-06T05:38:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*\*Originally posted by Fenris \* > > _Quote, below, is small segment of Fenris Text_ > > The reason that I pay attention to people who are non-“religous Jews” who claim to be Jewish is that, once you step outside of people like Laurange who are legitimate “ethinic or cultural Jews”, there’s a whole, scary segment of the population who call themselves Jews for the purposes of defrauding and worse. > Fenris \*\* Fenris, Thanks for your explanation concerning your apprehension about people presenting themselves as Jews for sinister purposes. I was aware of the existence of intellectually-challenged Baptists who wished to convert Jews to Christianity, but I had not heard of the “Jews for Jesus” group. A dear friend of mine used to remark “those idiots want to convert Jews to Christianity when, in fact, they are worshiping a Jew [Jesus]”. I had no idea that a claim to be Jewish could be a form of anti-semitism. ---
**Author:** ![Bartman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bartman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bartman)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2001, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/15 "2001-10-06T06:03:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > **Jodi** (and any other Christians), I apologize. My understanding of what the Trinity was was obviously incorrect. No offense was meant at all. I really did think that the standard Christian doctrine was that there was a Jesus-God, a Father-God and a Holy Spirit-God, seperate and distinct…but they were somehow still all the same person (? It never made sense to me either). The way **Poly** explained it, that’s obviously not even close to the case. Well to be fair **Fenris** some Christians do believe God to be exactly the way you described Him. Some believe **Poly** ’s explanation. Some believe entirely different things. And we as a group have been arguing about it since the first century. There really is not a more fundamental or long lasting arguement among Christians than the nature of God and Jesus. In fact given that the idea that Christ was a man of a non-Divine nature (as you stated the Jewish messiah will be) was professed very early (Arianism), and is still believed by some modern groups (Jehovah’s Witnesses for one), while many (most?) others agree that he was Divine, I think we can forgive you for not getting all the nuances right. 😉 I have personally spent a good part of the last year reading on historical heresey and I still have hard time getting my mind wrapped around some of the ideas. ---
**Author:** ![HairyPotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@HairyPotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HairyPotter)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2001, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/16 "2001-10-06T14:24:15Z")
I thought that to be considered a Christian, one had to accept the fact that Jesus was the Son of God and, as such, divine. Also, I have only heard Christians refer to the Trinity in the context of “One God, Indivisible”. Fortunately, I have also heard Christian theologians say that the concept of “Trinity” is incomprehensible to mortals, which I have always thought was very considerate of them. I imagine the idea is that God can be in many places at once without becoming separate entities. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2001, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/17 "2001-10-06T14:48:07Z")
Special to Coldy. 🙂 > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*OK, sorry. I’m late. Can someone give me a brief summary? > > Or does “Wildest Bill said some dumb shit about a religion other than his own again” cover it? \*\* \*\* A Thread Symphony in 5 Pages, by Jonathan Chance\*\* [Page 1:](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=90631) The symphony opens with a link to the [Is there any evidence to back the bible?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=90571) thread. Jonathan Chance OPines, “Wildest Bill promulgates some more crap-ass predjudiced beliefs about Jews.” Discussion ensues. Theme A. Resolved: A seeming compliment can actually be an insult. Theme B. Resolved: Stereotypes are bad. Alessan admits that he has the phrase “FEAR ME: I’m a Jew!” tattooed on his penis. The news seems to surprise no one. As Page 1 comes to a quiet close, there are three solos in the woodwinds. Captain Amazing requests, “Let’s not get into the whole Judaism: race or religion debate, again, please. It’s already been been hashed out.” Monty adds, “And we certainly don’t want to get into Israel’s whole “Who is a Jew?” question, I bet.” LaurAnge chimes in, “I would agree about trying not to get into the religion/race debate again.” [Page 2,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=90631&pagenumber=2) opens immediately with a discussion of “What is a Jew?”, with Fenris as Concertmaster. MsRobyn has a bacon cheeseburger for dinner. The significance of this is not clear–is she Jewish or isn’t she? Portajon enters the discussion. He remarks: > [@](#): > > Excuse me, if you are agnostic and born in Canada you are Canadien. Flyswatters are produced, and the discussion continues. At intervals Portajon contributes such gnomic utterances as: > [@](#): > > Answer this; Why aren’t there a bunch of damn Zulus running around the streets of the US? Because any desendants of the Zulus in America are now Americans not fucking Zulus. Cans of Raid[sup]R[/sup] Flying Insect Killer are produced, and the discussion continues. Wildest Bill finally enters his flame thread, but no one responds to him, as they are too busy debating, “What is a Jew?” Page 2 closes with a few soft chords from Andros. [Page 3](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=90631&pagenumber=3) opens with a bang, making good use of the percussion section, as Gobear takes on Wildest Bill’s remarks about Jews cited in the OP. WB responds by telling him he took his remarks out of context, and attempts to change the subject by asking Polycarp, “Would you please step in here and tell me if I am out line with the Jews being God’s chosen people the Gentiles being second according to the Bible? I don’t think I am though.” As Polycarp is nowhere in sight, the discussion merely takes a small detour onto the sidebar of “WB’s intelligence” (Resolved: It is non-existent), until WB says: > [@](#): > > Secondly, the reason the Jews have been persecuted John C is that God allows that to happen to them when they start going their own way and away from God’s plan. Read the Old Testament it is all there At which point Fenris introduces a new theme, echoed in the cellos: > [@](#): > > Screw the discussion about left-handed “compliments”, take a look at the above! > > So, WB, how exactly…in detail, mind you…did the Jews “go their own way” to cause the Holocaust? Were German Jews worshipping idols to Baal en masse? Sacrificing Christian Babies for their to make their matzo? Not “wheeling and dealing” enough? > > This is one of the most disgusting statements I have ever read on the boards. Bill, if your god really caused the Holocaust because he believed that Jews were “going their own way”, then you worship an evil creature that has nothing in common with the gentle, loving God that Polycarp believes in. Pepperlandgirl closes the page with a wistful oboe solo, backed by the rumble of far-off drums. The justly famous [Page 4](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=90631&pagenumber=4) begins with a magnificent crash of chords from the brass, as WB says: > [@](#): > > Fenris, > > Is the God you worship different then the God Poly does? I thought they are one in the same? And Fenris responds: > [@](#): > > I believe in the God of the Original Testament. That’s NOT the same guy as “The Father” that Christians believe in (the Father’s part of a Trinity, my God “is one”) and it’s not the same guy as the “You dissed me, so it’s the ovens for you” creature that you seem to believe in. The discussion is hot and heavy. “What is a Jew?” Guinastasia asks WB, “Why do you post here, anyway?” WB responds, “Maybe it is the same reason I think Satan(Brian) liked posting on the LBMB instead of here - more of a challenge.” He receives an official warning about trolling from Lynn. Portajon returns sporadically with such fascinating contributions as: > [@](#): > > You can not trace yourself to Judah, you do not practice Judaism, you did not live in the land of Palestine between 6th century BC and 1st century AD. You are not a Jew. You are Canadian. He is finally banned, since, as Lynn says, he seems to be “dedicated to trolling.” The discussion touches briefly on Wiccan beliefs, before the page closes with puzzled posts from Dopers who have received odd e-mails from the banned Portajon. [Page 5](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=90631&pagenumber=5) begins with more discussion of Portajon’s e-mail, before it switches from “What is a Jew?” to “What is the difference between Jews and Christians?” and “Jews For Jesus”. WB brings up the subject of the Trinity. > [@](#): > > I see the verse that is in question Deut 6:4 that means there is only one God but it doesn’t really say He is undividable(sp). To Christians this means not to worship any other gods besides the true God and to Jews it means the same thing and also they think that makes him undividable. Do I have this right? After an informative post from Bricker, John Corrado closes the thread. ---
**Author:** ![HairyPotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@HairyPotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HairyPotter)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2001, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/18 "2001-10-06T15:35:54Z")
Personally, I think WB is trolling. His dumb questions and responses appear “calculated” or “contrived” to me. The poor grammar is inconsistent. In my experience, the intellectually challenged or ignorant exhibit some consistentcy in their use of bad grammar. Thus, I cast my vote for WB as “troller”. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2001, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/19 "2001-10-06T16:44:43Z")
Dammit, **DDG** , I did indeed respond to **WB** within 24 hours of his request, and participated extensively in the discussion (to the extent appropriate – I do not, so far as I’m aware, have any Jewish ancestry, so discussing what an e-Jew thinks is a Jew was beyond my acceptable repertoire). But I did play my oboe part rather well, in my own humble opinion, and I feel that your review slights my efforts! 😉 **Hairy** , based on experience of **Bill** on three boards, I would have to testify that you are wrong. **Bill** ’s heart is in the right place, but he operates on some gross misconceptions. In a board dedicated to fighting ignorance, it is very important to distinguish honest ignorance from trollery. Bill has, IMHO, a fair amount of the former, and only the slightest touch of the latter – he does love to be controversial, but only in the context of stirring up debate. If he was trolling, than so were **Ben** , **matt\_mcl** , **Esprix** , **Satan** , and **Jodi** , not to mention **David B.** something over a year ago. Taking what you know is an unpopular stand – because it is what you sincerely opine – is never trollery. **Bart** , my intent was to give what orthodox Trinitarian dogma says, with the slight slant towards the Alexandrine school called for by the “God is one” issue that called for it, not to explore the views of each branch of Christianity. Potter’s Corners Full Gospel Holiness Church and Body Shop, Inc. (there actually **is** one, according to the sign! :D) probably does not hold to the concept I presented, but that’s _their_ problem. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2001, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624/20 "2001-10-06T20:27:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HairyPotter \* > I thought that to be considered a Christian, one had to accept the fact that Jesus was the Son of God and, as such, divine. That’s not true for some denominations. Some denominatins, further, hold that Jesus was both the Son of God and fully human. > [@](#): > > Also, I have only heard Christians refer to the Trinity in the context of “One God, Indivisible”. Not all Christians follow that line. Some of us hold that the Godhead (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) is basically a committee. > [@](#): > > Fortunately, I have also heard Christian theologians say that the concept of “Trinity” is incomprehensible to mortals, which I have always thought was very considerate of them. I imagine the idea is that God can be in many places at once without becoming separate entities. I never bought that “incomprehensible” line. After all, 'twas a man-made idea. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again-exodus/85624.md?page=2)