# FEAR ME: I'm a Jew! or \*sigh\* WB strikes again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 2, 2001, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008 "2001-10-02T18:03:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![portajon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c0e974/32.png) [@portajon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/portajon)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/161 "2001-10-03T23:30:36Z")
You folks just don’t get the picture. We have a self proclaimed Agnostic Canadian Jew flamming WildestBill for comments that she found offensive to the Jewish. She does not, nor does her family, practice the religion. Her soul claim to being a Jew is the blood running through her veins. This is the absolute embodiment of racism. While we are here, are there anymore groups, tribes, religions, nations, political affiliations or cults that you wish to share in their despair? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/162 "2001-10-03T23:54:07Z")
Hey portajon…you never answered my question: if you’ve never met any Jews and have no opinion on Israel, etc, how come you’re now such an expert on what constitutes a Jew? Fenris, trip-traping over the bridge ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/163 "2001-10-03T23:58:16Z")
**Portajon** : “Jew” can mean a religion. or “Jew” can mean an ethnic group. Withdraw that racist accusation immediately. I say this because it’s against the rules here. And if you don’t, the first time a moderator sees the line and no retraction, you’ll be thrown on the back of the truck and hauled away. I.e., banned. We don’t call anybody that name here. Suggest that she felches leprous gerbils, fine. But not that she’s a racist. ---
**Author:** ![TheThill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheThill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheThill)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/164 "2001-10-04T00:44:56Z")
It’s patently absurd to call someone a racist for being part of – or for identifying with an ethnic group for whatever reason. For the vocabulary impaired, racism refers to hating or looking down on other people due to their race. And why don’t you people just listen to the way other people identify themselves and just accept it! As for the WB character, I’m sure you think this is funny, putting everyone on with your seedy televangelist impression, but you don’t fool me for a minute. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/165 "2001-10-04T02:17:50Z")
Ok Wild, let me take what you say a step further. A small step. Look that them Jews. They get all the businesses and media on their side, while we Palestinians get shafted. Of course that’s because they own all the media. It is said that “The business of America is business”. Since the Jews are they best at business, they must control America. Look at all the aid Israel gets. They use the aid to get these great weapons that they use to point and shoot at us as if we are target practice. They say that it is in self-defense. Against a bunch of kids throwing rocks? Hah. Since the aid from America, a foreign policy decision which the Jewish businesses in America obviously wrote, had made the guns and ammo free to the Israeli government, they don’t waste a dime on the bullets they use to kill a Palestinian. How economically efficient. Do you get it now, Wildest Bill? The extreme fundamentalist Arabs take these ‘compliments’ very seriously, and use them to spread the most damaging of propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![portajon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c0e974/32.png) [@portajon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/portajon)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/166 "2001-10-04T06:00:15Z")
Originally posted by LaurAnge: My nationality has nothing to do with my being Jewish or not. I ask again, in your mind, what country would I have to have been born in to consider myself Jewish? Besides, I don’t think I could accurately call myself Semitic. My family cannot trace themselves back to Israel in any way, we’re all from Eastern Europe. If you can not trace yourself back to Judah, you fail the first requirement. Originally posted by LaurAnge: Yes, Jewish law says that if your mother is Jewish, so are you, no matter what. Even if I walked into shoul, smacked a rabbi around, said and “Fuck you and all the rest of your religion”, I would still be considered a jew. Now, as to why I am Jewish: I was raised this way. I don’t know if I believe in G-d, none of my family does. We don’t care. I still celebrate Rosh Hashanah, fast on Yom Kippur and (to a certain degree) keep Passover. I haven’t been to synagogue since my cousin’s bar-mitzvah, but so what? You are agnostic and you suggest to denounce the entire religion. So you celebrate on Rosh Hashanah. Big deal. I celebrate on Halloween but I don’t run around calling myself a Pagan. You fail the second requiurement. Originally posted by - you guessed it - LaurAnge: The point is that for me this is about family and tradition, not religion. I can proudly call myself Jewish and keep what my family died for. You can not trace yourself to Judah, you do not practice Judaism, you did not live in the land of Palestine between 6th century BC and 1st century AD. You are not a Jew. You are Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![portajon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c0e974/32.png) [@portajon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/portajon)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/167 "2001-10-04T06:01:20Z")
BTW; Jewish Law doesn’t mean much to the rest of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/168 "2001-10-04T07:33:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > \*\*Sometimes I wonder the same thing? Maybe it is the same reason I think Satan(Brian) liked posting on the LBMB instead of here - more of a challenge. \*\* It’s called “trolling”, or “being a jerk”. The Straight Dope never sanctioned this behavior. Brian/Satan did it on his own initiative. **Wildest Bill** , you are hereby notified to quit trolling. Quit making such sweeping generalizations and repeating stereotypes. I’ve had several complaints about you. Don’t insult other people, either, and then expect to be forgiven if you apologize. I will not be issuing you a second warning. Instead, I’ll ban you. **portajon** , since you seem to be dedicated to trolling, you are banned. Write to me and TubaDiva if you wish your privileges to be restored. And give us some darn good reasons. Lynn Bodoni Administrator For the Straight Dope ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/169 "2001-10-04T11:21:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by portajon \* > BTW; Jewish Law doesn’t mean much to the rest of the world. No, shit; dumbass. The point is that it’s not the rest of the world who’s deciding who is and isn’t Jewish–it’s the Jewish people themselves making that decision. But, banned is a decision that means very much to the administrators of the SDMB. Guess it was they and not you who got to decide that, hey? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/170 "2001-10-04T13:33:38Z")
I have read that myself, though i can’t remember where or by who. That God was punishing the Jews with the Holocaust. Whatever happened to “grace”? Also, someone said that in the bible it says, Whoever supports Israel, will be blessed. So after WW11, did Germany completely fall apart? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/171 "2001-10-04T13:58:18Z")
And therefore, was the United States undoing God’s divine plan with the Marshall Plan? Boy, this theology stuff is complicated. I think I need to go take over a software firm to cool off. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/172 "2001-10-04T14:09:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\*I think I need to go take over a software firm to cool off. \*\* This cools you off because it’s so mind-numbingly easy these days? “Buy my software company!” “No! Buy MINE! Ten bucks!” “I have a web design company I’ll GIVE you, and I’ll throw in TWO development companies!” Shooting fish in a barrel is not sporting, **Jon**. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tradesilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tradesilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tradesilicon)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/173 "2001-10-04T16:21:20Z")
Microsoft is a Software company, that may be kinda interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/174 "2001-10-04T18:10:54Z")
Holy shit! I’m gone for a day and all of a sudden I’m not only not Jewish, but racist? I have to say I’m kind of surprised he took so much offense at me and my posts, I’m usually considered pretty mild-mannered. And by the way, does anyone here know how to trace Ashkenazi Jews back to Judea? I guess it’s possible, so maybe I misled him on that point. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/175 "2001-10-04T18:13:46Z")
[hijack] I would just like to post again to apologize for having posted in haste early in this thread. Much to my dismay, I am receiving a sharp lesson is the whole “if I say something nice about you, you can’t be offended” mentality [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1679082#post1679082), although regarding race, not religion. There’s nothing like a timely demonstration of having the shoe on the other foot to highlight how one was in error, and why. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/176 "2001-10-04T18:46:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > > **I would just like to post again to apologize for having posted in haste early in this thread.** No apology necessary, but it’s certainly accepted. And thanks, **Jodi** , you’re a real mensch! Care for some lox schmear? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/177 "2001-10-04T18:56:39Z")
[Homer]Mmmmm, lox schmear. . .[/Homer] Although I have to tell you, having moved to Seattle, you don’t know from lox if you haven’t tasted what we’ve got up here. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/178 "2001-10-04T19:12:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LaurAnge \* > > \*\*And by the way, does anyone here know how to trace Ashkenazi Jews back to Judea? I guess it’s possible, so maybe I misled him on that point. \*\* I wondered, so I did a quick google search and stumbled upon [this page](http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/jews.html). It’s a whole page of various questions and answers about Judaism, and interestingly, the very first question and answer are: > [@](#): > > QUESTION: > Do Jews need to be religious to consider themselves Jews? Is religion the defining element of Jewish identity? > ANSWER: > …if a Jew doesn’t believe in G-d or the Bible, eats treif and on Shabbat goes to theater, is he or she is still a Jew? Of course. Those who observe and those who are non-observant of Torah laws may all consider themselves Jews. > > … The big lie that Orthodox Jews do not view the non-Orthodox as Jewish has been repeated so often it becomes a false fact. Yet no Orthodox organization or leader has ever suggested that halachic status as a Jew is a function of one’s level of belief or observance. Until the last 200 years, Jews maintained a remarkable degree of unity despite their dispersion over the globe without a land of their own. This unity was possible by their common law. > > - Gail Winston > Director, MEIR, Mid East Information Resource So aaaaanyway, with regard to tracing Ashkenazi Jews back to Judea, in part, it has this to say: > [@](#): > > QUESTION: > How can you prove that todays Jews are real Jews - descendants of the original Jews and heirs to the Land of Israel, and not just converts from the lands in which they lived during the last few centuries? > ANSWER: > “Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora.” > > - M.F. Hammer, Proc. Nat’l Academy of Science, May 9, 2000 > In addition to oral tradition and copious historical evidence, the genetic evidence stands firmly behind the common ancestry of both Ashkenazim and Sephardim in the Near East, and against any non-Jewish origin for either of these groups. Below are a collection of scientific journal articles including abstracts available worldwide on Pubmed and Medline. > > \ So basically, the answer would be yes, it’s possible to trace Ashkenazi Jews back to Judea. Lots of interesting Q&A’s there. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/179 "2001-10-04T20:15:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shayna \* > \*\*I love that Judaism is the only religion (according to my Rabbi - if he was wrong, someone will correct me, I’m sure) that doesn’t have a “creed.” You don’t _have_ to buy into this, that or the other thing in order to be considered a Jew (much less, a “good” Jew). \*\* FTR, Wicca dosen’t have a creed either. Personally, I’m of a mind that people are what they say they are. You say you’re a Jew? Fine by me, you’re a Jew. Who am I to demand credentials? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008/180 "2001-10-04T20:29:53Z")
**Lynn** : > [@](#): > > _Posted by me, above_Portajon: > > “Jew” can mean a religion. > > or “Jew” can mean an ethnic group. > > Withdraw that racist accusation immediately. > > I say this because it’s against the rules here. And if you don’t, the first time a moderator sees the line and no retraction, you’ll be thrown on the back of the truck and hauled away. I.e., banned. > > We don’t call anybody that name here. Suggest that she felches leprous gerbils, fine. But not that she’s a racist. I want to ask you publicly about this post, because, as I hope is evident, I wanted to warn **portajon** off his misguided attempt to prove to **laurange** that she was not Jewish based on **his** definition, and calling her “racist” for insisting on using the ethnic definition. My understanding is that we posters have a responsibility to self-police each other in this way, to keep you from having to get heavy-handed against members posting in anger, etc., where it’s possible. I’d like confirmation or correction of that, if you please. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-me-im-a-jew-or-sigh-wb-strikes-again/85008.md?page=10)