# Fear of Congressional D's leaking Baghdadi raid, realistic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 27, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555 "2019-10-27T19:09:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/21 "2019-10-28T11:03:49Z")
I think the raid was simple: 1: Attack a bunch of Middle Easterners. 2: Pick through the bodies to find who was most prominent among those killed. 3: Declare that that person, whoever it was, was the “leader of ISIS” so he can brag about it. That’s why Trump never talked about al-Bagdadi before. And that’s why he didn’t tell anyone about the raid beforehand, either: Because he didn’t know who the target was going to end up being. And never mind that Trump had already personally defeated every last member of ISIS, and that’s why he told Turkey to attack the Kurds. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/22 "2019-10-28T14:04:21Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I also want to question the need to brief anyone in Congress on an upcoming military raid anyway. … This was my first thought. It might be the polite or nice thing to do, but President Trump and Pelosi seem to be well beyond niceties, so the next question is: Is he required to brief them? I don’t know for certain, but I don’t think so. This happened in Syria where we’ve been conducting military operations for years. Pakistan was a rather different beast. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/23 "2019-10-28T14:17:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think the raid was simple: > > 1: Attack a bunch of Middle Easterners. > 2: Pick through the bodies to find who was most prominent among those killed. > 3: Declare that that person, whoever it was, was the “leader of ISIS” so he can brag about it. > > That’s why Trump never talked about al-Bagdadi before. And that’s why he didn’t tell anyone about the raid beforehand, either: Because he didn’t know who the target was going to end up being. Say, remember our recent thread, [Why is the Right so credulous when it comes to conspiracy theories?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=883780) Not that your one example here counterbalances it all, but this - along with a lot of comments I’ve seen on CNN’s Facebook yesterday - illustrate that many liberals are perfectly willing to believe something outlandish if it fits a narrative. ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/24 "2019-10-28T14:27:22Z")
I truly believe that liberals will do anything to hurt Trump including sabotaging a mission to kill terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/25 "2019-10-28T14:31:18Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Say, remember our recent thread, [Why is the Right so credulous when it comes to conspiracy theories?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=883780) > > Not that your one example here counterbalances it all, but this - along with a lot of comments I’ve seen on CNN’s Facebook yesterday - illustrate that many liberals are perfectly willing to believe something outlandish if it fits a narrative. He’s pointing out there is no reason to believe Trump because of his belief in conspiracy theories and his outright lying. Liberals are not willing to believe the outlandish stories from Trump and his Republican stooges so it’s necessary to consider the most likely explanation for an event instead of their lies. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/26 "2019-10-28T14:40:00Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > I truly believe that liberals will do anything to hurt Trump including sabotaging a mission to kill terrorists. Posting this right after **Velocity** -what a _sweet_ burn. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/27 "2019-10-28T15:04:40Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > I truly believe that liberals will do anything to hurt Trump including sabotaging a mission to kill terrorists. You’re wrong and your belief system is not based on evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/28 "2019-10-28T15:36:11Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I also want to question the need to brief anyone in Congress on an upcoming military raid anyway. The Congressional D’s and R’s hold no veto power over such a raid. There is nothing they could say or do that would \*\*\*help \*\*\*the military operation. The only thing they could possibly do is harm it by leaking it, intentionally or unintentionally. Sure, they could provide advice or input, but that’s what the military and intelligence community is there for. > [@The Constitution](#): > > The Congress shall have Power To > \ > To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water; > > To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years; > > To provide and maintain a Navy; > > To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces Did I miss the meeting where this part of the Constitution was eliminated? I get that the whole declaring war thing is passe, but there was always supposed to be a check and balance there, with Congress having the power to rein in the CinC. Kind of hard to do that when he’s keeping you in the dark. Anyway, this move was 100% spite, 0% reality. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/29 "2019-10-28T15:40:10Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I think it’s more likely Trumpian projection:\*\* he assumes people will do what he would do\*\* in that situation. This is probably the right answer. …and it’s a great explanation for the way Trump’s mind works. (i.e. like a 9 year old child. ) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/30 "2019-10-28T16:52:10Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Did I miss the meeting where this part of the Constitution was eliminated? I get that the whole declaring war thing is passe, but there was always supposed to be a check and balance there, with Congress having the power to rein in the CinC. Kind of hard to do that when he’s keeping you in the dark. > > Anyway, this move was 100% spite, 0% reality. I’m pretty sure that was covered back in 2001, when Congress passed the AUMF: > [@](#): > > [According to a report by the Congressional Research Service, published May 11, 2016, at that time the 2001 AUMF had been cited 37 times in connection with actions in 14 countries and on the high seas. The report stated that “Of the 37 occurrences, 18 were made during the Bush Administration, and 19 have been made during the Obama Administration.” The countries that were mentioned in the report included Afghanistan, Cuba (Guantanamo Bay), Djibouti, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Georgia, Iraq, Kenya, Libya, Philippines, Somalia, Syria and Yemen.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_Against_Terrorists) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/31 "2019-10-28T17:14:12Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m pretty sure that was covered back in 2001, when Congress passed the AUMF: Do you believe that the 2001 AUMF, which authorizes war against those who carried out the 9/11 attacks, and that those who “planned,” “aided” or “harbored” them (note past tense), should apply to terrorist groups that did not exist at the time of the attacks? I’m interested in the answer because you seem to be very precise in interpreting words used in gun control laws. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/32 "2019-10-28T17:18:52Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Did I miss the meeting where this part of the Constitution was eliminated? I get that the whole declaring war thing is passe, but there was always supposed to be a check and balance there, with Congress having the power to rein in the CinC. Kind of hard to do that when he’s keeping you in the dark. The U.S. policy of going after and killing terrorists has been discussed and approved by Congress. Since the general policy has been approved there is no reason to discuss each specific instance where it happens. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/33 "2019-10-28T17:18:53Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m pretty sure that was covered back in 2001, when Congress passed the AUMF: With the AUMF, Congress gave authorization to the President to take military actions against Terrorists. The President now claims that he can’t trust Congress with knowing when military actions are taken? It is Congress who gave him this authorization in the first place, and Congress still retains responsibility for raising and providing for an Army and Navy, and making rules to govern the use of them. Again, it’s spite, not reality driving this choice. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/34 "2019-10-28T17:21:12Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > With the AUMF, Congress gave authorization to the President to take military actions against Terrorists. > > The President now claims that he can’t trust Congress with knowing when military actions are taken? > > It is Congress who gave him this authorization in the first place, and Congress still retains responsibility for raising and providing for an Army and Navy, and making rules to govern the use of them. > > Again, it’s spite, not reality driving this choice. I recall reading somewhere that it’s an intelligence axiom that the likelihood of a secret being leaked is the \*square \*of the number of people in on the secret. The benefits of briefing Congress are low (what, exactly, are the benefits?) but the possible drawbacks are extreme (the scuttling of the entire mission, should it go public) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/35 "2019-10-28T17:31:25Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Do you believe that the 2001 AUMF, which authorizes war against those who carried out the 9/11 attacks, and that those who “planned,” “aided” or “harbored” them (note past tense), should apply to terrorist groups that did not exist at the time of the attacks? > > I’m interested in the answer because you seem to be very precise in interpreting words used in gun control laws. No, **I** don’t believe it should, but presidents of both parties, prior to President Trump, have cited that AUMF as justification for military operations in more than a dozen countries, including Obama using it to fight ISIS in Syria, so it’s pretty clear that my belief on the matter doesn’t hold much sway. To flip things around now and say “but we didn’t authorize that” when pretty much everyone from both parties has looked the other way for the last 18 years would be transparently hypocritical (which is about what I expect from the dems). Furthermore, to make this argument (that “we didn’t authorize that”) while at the same time they’re trying to excoriate President Trump for pulling back from military deployments in Syria is ham-fisted in the extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/36 "2019-10-28T17:42:56Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The benefits of briefing Congress are low (what, exactly, are the benefits?) but the possible drawbacks are extreme (the scuttling of the entire mission, should it go public) The benefits are in not cementing one’s persona as a petty thin-skinned man-child with a rather tenuous grasp of reality. At least Trump informed his supervisor of what he was planning. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/37 "2019-10-28T17:55:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, **I** don’t believe it should, but presidents of both parties, prior to President Trump, have cited that AUMF as justification for military operations in more than a dozen countries, including Obama using it to fight ISIS in Syria, so it’s pretty clear that my belief on the matter doesn’t hold much sway. To flip things around now and say “but we didn’t authorize that” when pretty much everyone from both parties has looked the other way for the last 18 years would be transparently hypocritical (which is about what I expect from the dems). Furthermore, to make this argument (that “we didn’t authorize that”) while at the same time they’re trying to excoriate President Trump for pulling back from military deployments in Syria is ham-fisted in the extreme. When someone raises point “A,” why do you raise the counter-argument to point “A” that you don’t actually agree with? This is puzzling behavior. What do you think you are achieving by concealing your own views while raising these points? To put a finer point on it, are you just sticking it to the libs _even in cases where you personally agree with the libs?_ ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/38 "2019-10-28T17:56:49Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > With the AUMF, Congress gave authorization to the President to take military actions against Terrorists. Not all terrorists. You have to admit, it didn’t cover bombing the KKK. And if you look at the text of the AUMF, it’s an extremely thin case that it covers a terrorist group created more than a decade after 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/39 "2019-10-28T18:00:03Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > When someone raises point “A,” why do you raise the counter-argument to point “A” that you don’t actually agree with? > > This is puzzling behavior. What do you think you are achieving by concealing your own views while raising these points? To put a finer point on it, are you just sticking it to the libs _even in cases where you personally agree with the libs?_ This. I can’t see any reason to do the “Both Sides Do It!” dance unless you are trying to excuse behavior. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/40 "2019-10-28T18:08:49Z")
[It’s Trump who shouldn’t have been told about the raid.](https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/27/trump-isis-raid-baghdadi-059333) > [@](#): > > President Donald Trump’s announcement of the death of ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi revealed a slew of sensitive details about the secret military operation that could imperil future raids, special operations and intelligence, veterans fear. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555.md?page=3)