# Fear of Congressional D's leaking Baghdadi raid, realistic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 27, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555 "2019-10-27T19:09:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/81 "2019-10-29T17:03:04Z")
> [@bryan ekers](#): > > if this was a run-of-the-mill operation not important enough (even if it had gone wrong) to inform congressional leadership, fine. Somebody should let trump know. I think he’s about to give himself the medal of honor. ftw. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/82 "2019-10-29T18:15:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think there’s anything about this operation that required the President to notify Congressional leadership of it beforehand. At least, I haven’t seen any information to indicate that it was required. It seems that the dems are sore about it not having been done, but I can’t figure out why, other than that they’re generally sore about virtually anything and everything President Trump does, and how he does it, and why, and where, and when, and with who. > > As a matter of courtesy, I can see why it might be a nice thing to do, but Pelosi and Schumer have chosen to pursue a toxic, vitriolic relationship with President Trump rather than a courteous and nice one, with the unsurprising result that they should no longer expect courtesies from him. You can’t figure out why democrats would be sore about being specifically excluded from the information, NOT because Trump didn’t think the information was worth releasing to congress (since he _did_ release it to congress), but rather because the deranged moron decided it would be a great way to exclude them while simultaneously accusing them of being traitors. You can’t figure out why that would be annoying? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/83 "2019-10-29T18:24:42Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > You can’t figure out why democrats would be sore about being specifically excluded from the information, NOT because Trump didn’t think the information was worth releasing to congress (since he _did_ release it to congress), but rather because the deranged moron decided it would be a great way to exclude them while simultaneously accusing them of being traitors. > > You can’t figure out why that would be annoying? There might be an impasse if he thinks that annoying Democrats is a plus. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/84 "2019-10-29T18:34:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There might be an impasse if he thinks that annoying Democrats is a plus. I am _absolutely certain_ that he considers annoying democrats to be a plus, but that doesn’t mean he can’t acknowledge that they’ve been given a reason to be annoyed. Of course, that would indirectly be acknowledging that the actions of the orange turd were obviously inappropriate, which could be construed as criticism - and a person who approves of annoying democrats wouldn’t want to criticize such behavior, would they? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/85 "2019-10-30T13:45:02Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Now, is this really a realistic fear? If the idea is that loose lips sink ships, (carelessness), that’s one thing, but Trump seemed concerned the D’s would **intentionally** get the raid scuttled. Maybe he is trying to jab the D’s out of spite, but would Congressional Ds have really wilfully leaked it? Well, do you think congressional Democrats are traitors or not? If you do not, then of course it’s not a realistic fear. How often in the past has the opposing party in the legislative branch intentionally spilled plans for an imminent military strike to the press in order to sabotage the operation? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/86 "2019-10-30T14:28:12Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > How often in the past has the opposing party in the legislative branch intentionally spilled plans for an imminent military strike to the press in order to sabotage the operation? Tacking on, this has clearly not happened. But the closest analogue we _do_ have are Senate Republicans sending that letter to Iran during the negotiations for the now defunct nuclear deal. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/87 "2019-10-30T14:52:13Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Well, do you think congressional Democrats are traitors or not? If you do not, then of course it’s not a realistic fear. > > How often in the past has the opposing party in the legislative branch intentionally spilled plans for an imminent military strike to the press in order to sabotage the operation? For the record, I don’t think the D’s would have. That being said, consider it from Trump’s viewpoint: He’s the most polarizing president in decades, Democratic opposition to his presidency has been intense from Day 1 of his presidency, there are numerous Democrats calling for his impeachment, there have been numerous leaks in his administration already, it would be a (short-lived) PR triumph for him for al-Baghdadi to be killed, Democrats have traditionally been perceived as the more anti-war party, Trump knows many of his opponents wouldn’t want him to get a PR boost of any sort, there is no practical benefit to telling the Congressional D’s (there’s nothing they could say or do that would \*help \*the operation,) it gives some spiteful satisfaction for him to stiff Pelosi and Schumer this way, and if he can brag afterwards that he did not inform the D’s about the upcoming operation, he gets a big win in the eyes of his supporting base, who would perceive it as a “burn” moment that jabs the D’s. On the flip side, if he does inform the D’s, and one of them leaks it to the press, then Trump would be lambasted by his own supporters, and denied a foreign-policy triumph. With all these factors, why \*\*would \*\*Trump inform the D’s about the upcoming military mission? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/88 "2019-10-30T14:56:09Z")
The answer to the question in your thread title is still “no”. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/89 "2019-10-30T15:17:07Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > For the record, I don’t think the D’s would have. > > That being said, consider it from Trump’s viewpoint: He’s the most polarizing president in decades, Democratic opposition to his presidency has been intense from Day 1 of his presidency, there are numerous Democrats calling for his impeachment, there have been numerous leaks in his administration already, it would be a (short-lived) PR triumph for him for al-Baghdadi to be killed, Democrats have traditionally been perceived as the more anti-war party, Trump knows many of his opponents wouldn’t want him to get a PR boost of any sort, there is no practical benefit to telling the Congressional D’s (there’s nothing they could say or do that would \*help \*the operation,) it gives some spiteful satisfaction for him to stiff Pelosi and Schumer this way, and if he can brag afterwards that he did not inform the D’s about the upcoming operation, he gets a big win in the eyes of his supporting base, who would perceive it as a “burn” moment that jabs the D’s. On the flip side, if he does inform the D’s, and one of them leaks it to the press, then Trump would be lambasted by his own supporters, and denied a foreign-policy triumph. With all these factors, why \*\*would \*\*Trump inform the D’s about the upcoming military mission? All this just translates to “According to Trump’s viewpoint, _fuck_ the national interests, what’s good for _me?_” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/90 "2019-10-30T15:27:21Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > That being said, consider it from Trump’s viewpoint… There is a whole branch of government and at least three media networks giving us Trump’s viewpoint 24/7/365, so I don’t think we need to waste any more time considering his viewpoint. This devil isn’t lacking for advocates. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/91 "2019-10-30T15:27:51Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > … With all these factors, why \*\*would \*\*Trump inform the D’s about the upcoming military mission? I have this same question. Schiff gave a (rather unconvincing IMHO) response: > [@](#): > > [Schiff told ABC’s This Week the decision to cut out the eight was a mistake. > > “If something had gone wrong, had we gotten into a firefight with the Russians, it’s to the administration’s advantage to say, ‘We informed Congress we were going in, we gave them the chance to give feedback.’ That wasn’t done.”]([Pelosi slams Trump for cutting Democrats out of loop on Baghdadi raid | Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/27/pelosi-trump-democrats-baghdadi-raid)) Also, [Pelosi released a statement](https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/102719) on the raid. The most relevant bit to this thread seems to be: > [@](#): > > … The House must be briefed on this raid, which the Russians but not top Congressional Leadership were notified of in advance, and on the Administration’s overall strategy in the region. Our military and allies deserve strong, smart and strategic leadership from Washington.” ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/92 "2019-10-30T15:44:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I have this same question. Schiff gave a (rather unconvincing IMHO) response: > > Also, [Pelosi released a statement](https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/102719) on the raid. The most relevant bit to this thread seems to be: Can you explain why he told the Republication side of the 8, and also Graham (who I believe is not one of the 8), but not the Democrats? If congress doesn’t need to know, they don’t need to know, but if they do, then both parties should know, right? Obama told the 8 before the Bin Laden raid. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/93 "2019-10-30T15:45:21Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > With all these factors, why \*\*would \*\*Trump inform the D’s about the upcoming military mission? Because it’s the responsible way to run a country? Look, I get that we’re talking about the point of view of a person I wouldn’t trust to care for my pet goldfish. But when asked why would the President of the United States inform key members of Congress about a important military strike involving Russian territory and ISIS Terrorists… it’s because that’s how you run a country. Trump’s inability to do the right thing, simply because there is a (comically theoretical) downside to him personally, is WHY he’s a terrible president. Literally every decision is run through the “what’s best for Trump” filter instead of the “what’s best for the United States” filter. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/94 "2019-10-30T15:47:11Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Can you explain why he told the Republication side of the 8, and also Graham (who I believe is not one of the 8), but not the Democrats? If congress doesn’t need to know, they don’t need to know, but if they do, then both parties should know, right? Obama told the 8 before the Bin Laden raid. I think your statement here is riddled with factual inaccuracies. Here is an article from the [Hill - McConnell, McCarthy not notified ahead of Baghdadi raid](https://thehill.com/policy/defense/467782-mcconnell-mccarthy-not-notified-ahead-of-baghdadi-raid) > [@](#): > > The top two Republicans on Capitol Hill say they were not notified by the administration ahead of the weekend raid that led to the death of ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. > > … > > “I wasn’t, but I was in the similar position when President Obama ordered the attack on Osama bin Laden. I was not called in advance then, nor do I expect to be called in advance now,” McConnell told reporters. > > McCarthy separately told CNN that he was not notified in advance but was notified after the fact. A spokesperson for McCarthy confirmed his comments. > > … > > The president did report telling Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Richard Burr (R-N.C.) after the raid was successful. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/95 "2019-10-30T15:55:57Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I have this same question. Schiff gave a (rather unconvincing IMHO) response: > > Also, [Pelosi released a statement](https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/102719) on the raid. The most relevant bit to this thread seems to be: None of this would need to have happened if he’d just kept his fat orange mouth shut and stayed off TV. The announcement could have come from the WH as an official statement, corroborated and with additional details by the Pentagon, National Security and Intelligence officials. Instead, the orange cretin decided he couldn’t live without the media attention and that of his adoring minion and cult followers. So he said dumb shit, again. Embarrassed himself, again. Opened himself up for contradiction from Russia, Pentagon, Democratic leadership and media. Well done, President Fucking Moron. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/96 "2019-10-30T15:59:24Z")
So now you’re mad that he held a press conference? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/97 "2019-10-30T16:01:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think your statement here is riddled with factual inaccuracies. Even if so, it’s the misplacement of deck chairs on this Titanic of a presidency. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/98 "2019-10-30T16:02:49Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think your statement here is riddled with factual inaccuracies. Here is an article from the [Hill - McConnell, McCarthy not notified ahead of Baghdadi raid](https://thehill.com/policy/defense/467782-mcconnell-mccarthy-not-notified-ahead-of-baghdadi-raid) Thank you for that correction. I appreciate it. It remains unclear why he told Lindsay Graham, who seems to be on no relevant committee, but that’s fine. I think that he should have informed the 8, if the event was important enough to trumpet the results, but here we are. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/99 "2019-10-30T16:04:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So now you’re mad that he held a press conference? “Wow! Isn’t the Grand Canyon magnificent?” “So you like looking at holes?” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555/100 "2019-10-30T16:22:38Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Thank you for that correction. I appreciate it. It remains unclear why he told Lindsay Graham, who seems to be on no relevant committee, but that’s fine. I think that he should have informed the 8, if the event was important enough to trumpet the results, but here we are. BTW, [here](https://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/47153/did-obama-notify-congress-the-intelligence-committees-in-particular-that-the-b) is some additional information about Obama and his decision to not notify the Gang of Eight prior to the OBL raid. I don’t know why he chose to talk to Lindsay Graham about it after the raid either, but I don’t think it’s a big deal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-of-congressional-ds-leaking-baghdadi-raid-realistic/842555.md?page=6)