# Fear the Walking Dead: 2.05 "Captive" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 9, 2016, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354 "2016-05-09T01:08:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354/41 "2016-05-11T20:43:41Z")
In one of the other Walking Dead threads we talked about some of the internal inconsistencies and physical improbabilities regarding zombification, and pretty much agreed that it is rationally indefensible. But having an impossible premise is no barrier to creating good fiction. The problem(s) with FTWD are of execution, not of concept. Good literature is about _people_ anyway, people in situations that somehow hold them up for examination. So my complaints have nothing to do with lack of acceptable explanation for zombie-ism. My complaints boil down to my opinion that these writers just do not write good fiction. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354/42 "2016-05-12T01:03:03Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > My complaints boil down to my opinion that these writers just do not write good fiction. It is from a _comic book_, for crying out loud! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354/43 "2016-05-12T01:04:09Z")
How difficult would it be to say it was a super secret CIA, or KGB or North Korean Spy Stuff virus that escaped? ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354/44 "2016-05-12T03:33:39Z")
I haven’t handled a comic book in – uhh – more than fifty years. My extremely vague recollection is that they featured stories containing plots that were brought to life by the actions of characters. They were effectively illustrated short stories. Some of them did this well, giving us characters still recognizable today. Apparently other creditable examples of this literary form are of more recent vintage. And assuredly others were too poorly done to be either literature or memorable. It isn’t their comic book origin that makes FTWD stories so bad, it’s just that they are so badly done. And again, it really doesn’t matter how an impossibility like zombification is rationalized. We can debate the rationalization and its internal consistencies for grins and giggles, just as we can argue about the functions and capabilities of Mr. Scott’s transporter. (Manufactured spy virus? It came from outer space? Revenge of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? We can happily wrangle all night!) Our inability to craft a factual explanation for an impossible but necessary element of the story doesn’t keep a story from being engaging and entertaining _if the story is otherwise well written_. Sadly, one thing FTWD doesn’t suffer from is good writing. Too bad! Because I’m enjoying talking about it. I’m just not enjoying watching it! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354/45 "2016-05-12T05:18:26Z")
So teengirl swipes a multitool from what-his-face and never uses it? Chekov would be disappointed. Well, that and she was locked in a galley and never tried looking for a carving knife. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354/46 "2016-05-12T08:03:58Z")
I thought the zombie-for-prisoner exchange was an awesome trick, and I really enjoyed it when the pirates got munched. And Travis finally kicked somebody’s ass- _I_ knew he could do it, but did Travis? He does now! I think apocalypse sexuality is a theme in the show. Strand is practically the only sexualized character, though that side of him is out of reach for now, behind the veil of Before All This Happened. Still, he isn’t prevented from dressing snappy in the new reality, and his Big Gay Reveal hasn’t stopped him from being one of the more effective characters in the show, even in his current water-logged state. Good. What’s-her-name looked like she was going to get it on with her boyfriend in the first season, but he croaked and all she has left is that spiral tattoo (?) on her arm. She is obviously a pretty actress, and like Ren in Star Wars, I appreciate how the directors don’t go out of their way to doll her up and portray her bouncing around (though her cosmetics do seem a little out of place under the circumstances. Get kidnapped! -\> escape! -\> touch up make-up! -\> 😕). That sweater might be just a little tight, but geez, it is a turtleneck, does she have to also wear a headscarf to get to be a regular person? Nope, she is emotionally traumatized and not really in the market for a boyfriend. Especially not creepy sea pirates who make weak arguments to convince her to leave her family. Yah right, buddy. She’s too busy adapting to the new, brutal world. Travis and what’s-her-name wifey also seem to have put sex behind them, though didn’t they get it on in the fist season? Maybe they are still up to the monkey business then, it just doesn’t show up on-screen anymore. Maybe. Could be why Travis seems so unnaturally calm while the entire modern world crashes into the shitter before his eyes as he takes to the sea for the first time. Wifey too. If so, getting laid regularly pretty much makes them transitional characters, on their way to realization but really not there yet (especially Travis). Murderer-teen (can you tell I can’t keep track of these characters’ names?) probably wouldn’t know what to do with a girl if somehow he got the chance. And now he has to deal with his moral status as a murderer and mostly useless moron. His self-esteem isn’t going anywhere and I can’t imagine what it would take for this guy to get laid. Therefore he is probably zombie chow. Nick seems vaguely attracted to what’s-her-Hispanic-name, though that character hardly gets any screen time other than tending to her shoulder wound and subtly suggesting Nick buzz off. Nick may be too wise and world-weary to get too close to anybody anyway, and maybe that’s why he’s here, to appreciate the gravity of the situation instead of playing or thinking about playing grab-ass with the other characters. Then there are various vicious, pregnant brigands. They seem to be at about 7-8 months, but are ready to put their dukes up and fight at the drop of a hat. Doesn’t seem very safe to me, but anyway obviously their sex lives take place before All This happened, too. Preggers are going to be much more uncommon going forward, seeing the squelching effect of the ZA on everybody’s sex lives. So, in that regard, the ZA definitely sucks. Still, given the choice, I would probably choose Strand’s aquatic semi-paradisiacal gay zombie apocalypse to that of Rick and crew in TWD (even though that show seems to have more going for it). ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354/47 "2016-05-12T10:32:01Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > It’s no mystery why they don’t want to explain the mechanics of zombies. The premise of your basic zombie apocalypse is indefensible, particularly if you examine the great number of preposterous premises it breaks down into. I think they made a mistake in the first season of The Walking Dead by even showing brain scans of a person turning. It just provokes more questions they will have to recuse themselves from answering. Like, so, if activity remains only in the lizard brain, how come damage to any part of the brain is sufficient to kill a zombie? And so on… I never wanted or expected this show to be about the causes and mechanics of zombyism. I wanted (and expected) it to be about the fall of civilization, which was skipped over entirely in the mother show using Rick’s coma. My complaint now is that this show has already effectively passed beyond when Rick wakes up: Society is equally fallen, the main characters are equally isolated. Even moreso, actually, since the mother show started with a whole community of people at that reservoir. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Strand is practically the only sexualized character, though that side of him is out of reach for now, behind the veil of Before All This Happened. Still, he isn’t prevented from dressing snappy in the new reality, and his Big Gay Reveal hasn’t stopped him from being one of the more effective characters in the show, even in his current water-logged state. Good. Like has been mentioned before by someone else, I don’t think Strand is gay. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354/48 "2016-05-12T13:29:18Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I never wanted or expected this show to be about the causes and mechanics of zombyism. I wanted (and expected) it to be about the fall of civilization, which was skipped over entirely in the mother show using Rick’s coma. My complaint now is that this show has already effectively passed beyond when Rick wakes up: Society is equally fallen, the main characters are equally isolated. Exactly!! That was precisely what I wanted in this spin-off show. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354/49 "2016-05-12T13:32:47Z")
> [@Algernon](#): > > Exactly!! That was precisely what I wanted in this spin-off show. Really? I wanted to see stupid teenagers doing really stupid things, over and over again, and adults being more or less oblivious. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354/50 "2016-05-12T13:41:51Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I never wanted or expected this show to be about the causes and mechanics of zombyism. I wanted (and expected) it to be about the fall of civilization, which was skipped over entirely in the mother show using Rick’s coma. My complaint now is that this show has already effectively passed beyond when Rick wakes up: Society is equally fallen, the main characters are equally isolated. Even moreso, actually, since the mother show started with a whole community of people at that reservoir. Yeah, that is more the point, I grant you. That seemed to be the promise of the new series when it started. We’d actually get to witness the deterioration of society. Then they skipped a couple of weeks. But I include the precipitous fall of all institutions as among the implausibilities that they want to just hand-wave away. The traumatic reduction to a Hobsian war of all against all is an essential element of the fantasy, but this show instead of demonstrating how that could happen keeps on making us question that premise. Apparently a great deal of organization still exists in Mexico, where the shores are still patrolled and where money is still worth something. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354/51 "2016-05-12T13:49:35Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Like has been mentioned before by someone else, I don’t think Strand is gay. It would be interesting if he is just pretending, to take advantage. > [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > Apparently a great deal of organization still exists in Mexico, where the shores are still patrolled and where money is still worth something. So there is still a chance we get to see the devolution of Mexico… ---
**Author:** ![Dingbang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@Dingbang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dingbang)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354/52 "2016-05-12T15:21:22Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > So there is still a chance we get to see the devolution of Mexico… Nah, they’ll go to Mexico and hole up inside a taqueria, where they have their relationship crises with nary a thought to what’s going on outside. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354/53 "2016-05-12T15:25:19Z")
> [@Dingbang](#): > > Nah, they’ll go to Mexico and hole up inside a taqueria, where they have their relationship crises with nary a thought to what’s going on outside. And then “Two weeks later…” and it’s already pure anarchy outside. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354/54 "2016-05-12T16:10:28Z")
So when are _Z Nation_ and _iZombie_ coming back? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354/55 "2016-05-12T20:09:40Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So when are _Z Nation_ and _iZombie_ coming back? I did see that iZombie was renewed for another season, so I’m pretty stoked about that. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354/56 "2016-05-12T22:42:51Z")
I have heard good things about iZombie. I mean, in one sense it’s almost too obvious to mash up the detective genre, where we are accustomed to seeing franchises premised on a set of personality quirks and particular non-detective skills are shown to make a person an excellent detective, with ‘zombie’ slid in as that detective’s gimmick. I would dismiss it out of hand, but I have heard not only that it’s good, but that they’ve had a hell of a season 2 finale. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354/57 "2016-05-12T23:20:27Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I never wanted or expected this show to be about the causes and mechanics of zombyism. I wanted (and expected) it to be about the fall of civilization, which was skipped over entirely in the mother show using Rick’s coma. My complaint now is that this show has already effectively passed beyond when Rick wakes up: Society is equally fallen, the main characters are equally isolated. Even moreso, actually, since the mother show started with a whole community of people at that reservoir. > > Like has been mentioned before by someone else, I don’t think Strand is gay. Agreed; I wasn’t expecting any big reveal about what’s causing the dead to reanimate (in fact I would’ve preferred if back at the CDC Jenner told everyone they couldn’t identify or find any scientific explanation at all), but it would’ve been nice to see how society collapsed so fast. As for Strand; I think he’s both gay/bisexual _and_ pulling a long con on Abigail (or at least that’s what their relationship started as). ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354/58 "2016-05-12T23:47:01Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > I have heard good things about iZombie. I mean, in one sense it’s almost too obvious to mash up the detective genre, where we are accustomed to seeing franchises premised on a set of personality quirks and particular non-detective skills are shown to make a person an excellent detective, with ‘zombie’ slid in as that detective’s gimmick. I would dismiss it out of hand, but I have heard not only that it’s good, but that they’ve had a hell of a season 2 finale. iZombie has an interesting distinction in the glut of male/female paired detective shows: Bones Castle Lucifer iZombie etc… The standard trope is that the female partner is straight-laced, button-down, essentially a wet blanket. The male partner is wacky, goofy, playful, or downright zany. iZombie turns that around and lets the woman be the wacky one. It’s a refreshing change of pace in that sense. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354/59 "2016-05-13T00:43:43Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > but it would’ve been nice to see how society collapsed so fast. Re: Flight whatchamacallit mini show, why did the power go off in all the cities with in range airports at the same time? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-05-captive-open-spoilers/754354.md?page=2)