# Fear the Walking Dead: 2.07 "Shiva" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 23, 2016, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422 "2016-05-23T00:12:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/41 "2016-05-25T21:35:47Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > [The preview teaser for the next episode](http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/fear-walking-dead-teases-intense-confrontation-new-promo)shows him appearing to score drugs. I can see arguments for a zombie apocalypse being the hardest or the easiest place to score for a heroin addict. Your old dealer is most likely gone and not accepting cash if he is, but find just one walker who was a dealer in life and has/her backpack and you’ve got a score better than you ever had back in the day. Failing that, he can always slip on his Carrie-after-the-Prom costume and go to a junkie area of town and enter apartments til he finds a haul. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/42 "2016-05-26T14:01:07Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > Well, you got to admit crazy bitch walked the walk. When she got locked in with the zombies, she was beatific as all kinds of get-out. But then we never actually did see her zombified later. Nor did we actually see Daniel burn up. He might have teleported to safety the way Strand apparently teleported back inside the gate with the truck. Yeah, I don’t actually remember the zombies attacking her. They were shuffling her way, though… ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/43 "2016-05-26T17:12:00Z")
How did Travis come to lack his shoes? ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/44 "2016-05-26T19:18:03Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > How did Travis come to lack his shoes? He went chasing after Chris in the middle of the night, after being woken up by the gun shot and then having a quick chat with Maddie and Alicia about Chris’s creepy stalker tendencies. Presumably at no point did Travis stop to prepare for this dramatic turn (understandable). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/45 "2016-05-26T19:27:31Z")
Thanks, Duality72. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/46 "2016-06-01T06:03:21Z")
Really? They even copied the ‘main badass has a psychotic breakdown and is haunted by the spectre of his dead wife’-plotline from TWD? What is this, like a Frankenstein’s monster created from TWD’s discarded (zombie-)parts? Not to mention that this plotline was completely out of character for Salazar; there were literally no indications at anything being wrong with him up to that point, and a minute later, he’s burning shit up because the voices in his head tell him to. I don’t believe for a second that Cecilia is dead, though. After all, Nick’s mom used that tried-and-true tactic of locking her into a situation from which there can’t be any possible escape, and then leaving (unless, of course, Cecilia had a spare key in her pocket; knew another way to open the exit; somebody else came by at the last second, etc.). After all, we neither see her chowed up, nor did she seem to be among the dead when Salazar burned them. My money’s on Nick’s mom’s drastic actions taken for the protection of her children will eventually come back to haunt them. You know, again. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/47 "2016-06-01T14:11:04Z")
Yeah, I bitched about the unreality of Daniel going bonkers 'way back in Post 6. It still seems ridiculous. And you (and others) may well be right that Celia isn’t actually dead. Not dead - dead, any way. Err, not dead - dead, just dead… uhh, hell, you know what I mean. Heck, Daniel might be alive too. Maybe the voices told him where to hide from the flames! When FTWD resumes, we may see all our dear departed emerging from their hidey-holes all over the hacienda! Speaking of the hacienda, why are none of its residents running around? Literally I mean. They are all, whenever we see them, just walking purposefully. Shit man, my place is overrun with “them” (whatever the common people think of the “changed ones”, it can’t be comfortable) and the whole place is on fire! Bad stuff is happening to all my friends and family, and I’m just walking around, not even interfering with these Americanos who seem to have precipitated all this badness. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/48 "2016-06-01T14:48:30Z")
Chris will eventually lead the _Whisperers_. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/49 "2016-06-01T16:19:31Z")
Interesting factoid I saw in an article somewhere, that the producers have said we have now reached the point in the timeline where Rick Grimes first woke up. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/50 "2016-06-01T20:04:07Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Interesting factoid I saw in an article somewhere, that the producers have said we have now reached the point in the timeline where Rick Grimes first woke up. And we know basically nothing more about how the world devolved than we did from following Rick. ‘Fear’ was touted as providing just that insight, but I think it has failed miserably in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/51 "2016-06-01T20:32:55Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > And we know basically nothing more about how the world devolved than we did from following Rick. ‘Fear’ was touted as providing just that insight, but I think it has failed miserably in this regard. What do think is missing from the narrative? The difference from majority of the population was that understanding of what was going on took longer than it did for Rick waking up from a coma with walkers in the hospital. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/52 "2016-06-01T20:39:40Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > And we know basically nothing more about how the world devolved than we did from following Rick. ‘Fear’ was touted as providing just that insight, but I think it has failed miserably in this regard. Yes, I agree. They could have provided a new angle and new insights, perhaps showing the attempts (and failures) of the authorities to control the outbreak, perhaps exploring its background—but instead, all we got was basically rehashes of the same plotlines TWD already featured, or at best variations on the same theme. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/53 "2016-06-01T21:12:26Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > And we know basically nothing more about how the world devolved than we did from following Rick. ‘Fear’ was touted as providing just that insight, but I think it has failed miserably in this regard. Can you fail what you never seriously tried? FTWD: A junkie meets a dead junkie. Audience: We will sincerely try to put ourselves in the mindframe of someone who doesn’t know what’s going on. FTWD: Rumors, news reports. Audience: Slow build, we like it. Show us how they’re figuring it out, how they’re reacting. FTWD: Riots! Audience: Oh, already? Okay FTWD: Fuck it, martial law! Audience: Wait, we’ve barely glimpsed the buildup! FTWD: It’s… think are hard. Research are hard. Wargame scenarios not AAAARGH! FUCK EVERYTHING! NOW TWO WEEKS LATER! Audience: But we want to know how the breakdown of social order happened. FTWD: MARTIAL LAW GOES TO SHIT! TAKE YOU TO POST-APOCALYPSE ALREADY IN PROGRESS! GET IN BOAT! ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/54 "2016-06-01T21:57:41Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > FUCK EVERYTHING! NOW TWO WEEKS LATER! That was the ultimate fuck you, for sure. The whole premise of this show was to depict the breakdown of society, and they _literally_ skipped right past it. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/55 "2016-06-01T22:14:15Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > That was the ultimate fuck you, for sure. The whole premise of this show was to depict the breakdown of society, and they _literally_ skipped right past it. I’m not too happy about the situation, myself. I’m actually wondering if a zombie TV series could be made that would depict the breakdown better. I’m thinking it would have to be made “mockumentary” style, instead of a drama focusing on just one group of characters. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/56 "2016-06-01T22:26:37Z")
Well, if we knew the cause we’d work on a cure. The shows aren’t about the cause and cure, they’re about what people do in the zombie apocalypse. I don’t think either show intends to ever resolve much of anything. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/57 "2016-06-01T22:42:54Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Well, if we knew the cause we’d work on a cure. The shows aren’t about the cause and cure, they’re about what people do in the zombie apocalypse. I don’t think either show intends to ever resolve much of anything. This sounds like disagreement, but the meaning appears to agree. Unless it’s a non sequitur? Nobody said anything about showing the cause, we’re lamenting that the premise was about what people do during the initial outbreak, but then they actually skipped over the two crucial weeks of the initial outbreak. We went straight from people hearing of weird stories on the internet and a handful of people actually seeing zombies to a title card that said “two weeks later.” Fade in to martial law. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/58 "2016-06-01T22:53:43Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > This sounds like disagreement, but the meaning appears to agree. Unless it’s a non sequitur? > > Nobody said anything about showing the cause, we’re lamenting that the premise was about what people do during the initial outbreak, but then they actually skipped over the two crucial weeks of the initial outbreak. We went straight from people hearing of weird stories on the internet and a handful of people actually seeing zombies to a title card that said “two weeks later.” Fade in to martial law. Well, maybe they didn’t illustrate everything to everyone’s satisfaction, but I saw people start noticing a weird outbreak, the government tried to keep it quiet to avoid panic, they couldn’t keep covering it up, riots broke out, the power & communication went out, people were suddenly on their own, what was left of the military tried to hold on to what they could, failed and pulled out, and here we are. There is some military and government left else our group wouldn’t have to bribe its way past the Mexican nautical border, and there are little holdouts of civilization here and there but I’m not sure what more you want to see. The breakdown happened pretty fast. I guess there could be third show that chronicles the adventures of the military or something. That might be fun, but how long would it last before they’re just Rick Grimes and team? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/59 "2016-06-01T23:03:33Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Well, if we knew the cause we’d work on a cure. The shows aren’t about the cause and cure, they’re about what people do in the zombie apocalypse. I don’t think either show intends to ever resolve much of anything. Clearly many people felt they were sold on a premise that they’d get to see how the breakdown actually happened, and were excited about it. It clearly wasn’t beside the point for them. Or myself. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422/60 "2016-06-01T23:09:16Z")
Exactly. We – I anyway – wanted to see the early encounters, the response of authority, the understandings and misunderstandings, and the probable parallel courses of growing understanding and loss of control. We started there with Nick’s junkie friends, Maddie’s school principal, and the media showing unexplained civil unrest. Then we skip to some strange form of martial law. It’s in the time skipped that occurred the events we might have seen that were the promise of this show, that would have filled in some of the gaps left in the original series. That’s the disappointment. One of them, anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fear-the-walking-dead-2-07-shiva-open-spoilers/755422.md?page=4)