# February jobs report **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 9, 2018, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310 "2018-03-09T23:35:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/101 "2018-03-19T14:28:56Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > … I’d be happy to credit Trump, if anyone can point out something relevant Trump has actually done. Tax cuts? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/102 "2018-03-19T14:30:05Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Tax cuts? A trained monkey could have pushed tax cuts through this Congress ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/103 "2018-03-19T14:30:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m curious, since you brought up the subject of cherry-picking, why does your yearly list only go back to 2011? You don’t remember what happened in 2008? And the time needed to recover? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/104 "2018-03-19T14:36:02Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Tax cuts? I’m really enjoying my (almost) $1.29 per week tax savings. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/105 "2018-03-19T15:03:55Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I’m really enjoying my (almost) $1.29 per week tax savings. That $1.29 savings is scheduled to expire in a few years. I think you should spend your enjoyment vicariously on the Billions (with a B) in _permanent_ tax cuts for the Koch Brothers, and billions more for other heroic Job Creators. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/106 "2018-03-19T15:46:17Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I’m really enjoying my (almost) $1.29 per week tax savings. Since you brought it up again, I’m curious if you have an answer to this question yet: > [@My MASSIVE tax savings!](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-massive-tax-savings/809682/15): > > … So is the difference between your federal income tax withholding from last year to this year just $3 per pay period? Last time I asked you (about three weeks ago) you said: > [@My MASSIVE tax savings!](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-massive-tax-savings/809682/17): > > I don’t have the pay stub yet. Won’t get it for a couple of days. … Presumably you have the pay stub now. Have you compared your federal income tax withholding from last year to this most recent pay stub? Was $3 the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/107 "2018-03-19T16:02:48Z")
I think he answered you in that thread you keep ignoring in the pit. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/108 "2018-03-19T16:06:37Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I think he answered you in that thread you keep ignoring in the pit. Is that true? Did he actually provide an answer to that question there? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/109 "2018-03-19T16:11:28Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > A _monthly_ job report?? Do you see the silliness? Why not opt for a weekly or daily report — it would give you more opportunity to cherry-pick! > > Here are the recent _yearly_ job growth figures. As an exercise, see if you can spot the smallest of these seven numbers. > > - 2.09 million jobs in 2011 > - 2.14 million jobs in 2012 > - 2.30 million jobs in 2013 > - 2.99 million jobs in 2014 > - 2.71 million jobs in 2015 > - 2.24 million jobs in 2016 > - 2.05 million jobs in 2017 > > Do I conclude that Obama was better for the economy than Trump? No. Do you resort to cherry-picking any little factoid, relevant or not, that makes your guy look good? Yes. @ **septimus** : where did you get these numbers from? They appear to be wrong. AFAICT, the BLS keeps [the official numbers on this](https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0000000001?output_view=net_1mth) (although I’m certainly open to correction if that’s wrong. Adding up the monthly totals for each year, I get these numbers: 2009 = -5.061 million jobs 2010 = 1.053 million jobs 2011 = 2.09 million jobs 2012 = 2.151 million jobs 2013 = 2.301 million jobs 2014 = 3.005 million jobs 2015 = 2.712 million jobs 2016 = 2.344 million jobs 2017 = 2.188 million jobs ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/110 "2018-03-19T16:26:22Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > @ **septimus** : where did you get these numbers from? They appear to be wrong. > > AFAICT, the BLS keeps [the official numbers on this](https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0000000001?output_view=net_1mth) (although I’m certainly open to correction if that’s wrong. Adding up the monthly totals for each year, I get these numbers: > > 2009 = -5.061 million jobs > 2010 = 1.053 million jobs > 2011 = 2.09 million jobs > 2012 = 2.151 million jobs > 2013 = 2.301 million jobs > 2014 = 3.005 million jobs > 2015 = 2.712 million jobs > 2016 = 2.344 million jobs > 2017 = 2.188 million jobs And you know why those 2009 and 2010 job numbers happened as well as anyone here. Are you seriously trying to claim that it was Obama’s bad management that caused them? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/111 "2018-03-19T16:29:59Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > … Are you seriously trying to claim that it was Obama’s bad management that caused them? No, but I thought it was interesting, in a post calling out cherry-picking, that he’d engage in it himself. Also, it appears he should have done a better job of it and left 2011 and 2012 off as well, because it looks like Trump’s first year was better than all four years of Obama’s first term. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/112 "2018-03-19T16:31:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, but I thought it was interesting, in a post calling out cherry-picking, that he’d engage in it himself. > > Also, it appears he should have done a better job of it and left 2011 and 2012 off as well, because it looks like **Trump’s first year was better than all four years of Obama’s first term.** Cherry picking. You know why Obama’s first four years were like they were. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/113 "2018-03-19T16:34:34Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, but I thought it was interesting, in a post calling out cherry-picking, that he’d engage in it himself. > > Also, it appears he should have done a better job of it and left 2011 and 2012 off as well, because it looks like Trump’s first year was better than all four years of Obama’s first term. With an economy handed to him that was chugging along, contrary to the scaremongering he did during the campaign, as opposed to helming the recovery from a historically bad recession. Spare me what a superior job creator Trump is. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/114 "2018-03-19T16:45:10Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Cherry picking. You know why Obama’s first four years were like they were. First _four_ years? A couple of hours ago it was his first _two_ years. Can we expect by this afternoon that the first _six_ years of Obama’s administration will be Bush’s fault? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/115 "2018-03-19T17:19:29Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > First _four_ years? A couple of hours ago it was his first _two_ years. Can we expect by this afternoon that the first _six_ years of Obama’s administration will be Bush’s fault? I get that you’re criticizing a moving of the goalposts, but I’m confused on your fundamental position. Are you saying that new Administrations **should** , or **should not** , claim total credit over economic developments that occur early in the term, and dismiss that the prior Administration had anything to do with those developments? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/116 "2018-03-19T17:19:57Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > First _four_ years? A couple of hours ago it was his first _two_ years. Can we expect by this afternoon that the first _six_ years of Obama’s administration will be Bush’s fault? _You_ compared Obama’s first four years to Trump’s first. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/117 "2018-03-19T17:38:02Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I get that you’re criticizing a moving of the goalposts, but I’m confused on your fundamental position. > > Are you saying that new Administrations **should** , or **should not** , claim total credit over economic developments that occur early in the term, and dismiss that the prior Administration had anything to do with those developments? Politics being what they are, presidents tend to try to claim any good news they can as their doing, and any bad news as residual ill effects from the previous administration (or in this case, some seem to be claiming that it’s residual good news from the previous administration). Should they? It’s probably bad politics not to, but (and this is my fundamental position) I’m generally of the opinion that presidents get far too much credit and / or blame for the economic situation (as I mentioned at the tail end of post #58). ETA: and in attempt at fairness for Obama, I think there was a good bit more to his claims of residual ill effects than your average president (but even in that case, by the end “Bush’s fault” was wearing a bit thin). ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/118 "2018-03-19T17:54:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, but I thought it was interesting, in a post calling out cherry-picking, that he’d engage in it himself. Oh my. First, I took those numbers and only those numbers presented on a certain NBC page. Blame them for “cherry-picking” if you wish. Second, since you seem to want to a make a mountain out of the molehill way to the right of the decimal point, you should check which are the revised numbers. No, I won’t check that for you — this whole digression is too inane to even be stupid. But, BTW, in case you’re ever arguing with gullible adults _ **you missed the obvious “rebuttal” to my “point”:** _\* It was easy to get good job growth in 2012-2013 because of the huge number of unemployed created in 2009\*. (It seems quite peculiar you couldn’t even think of this “rebuttal” yourself; it’s orders of magnitude more cogent and germane than whatever you think you’re arguing.) But, finally, you need to get a handle on what “cherry-picking” even means. Let’s start you with an easy question: _ **Do you see why an annual figure is more useful than a monthly figure here?** _ Ask in the other thread if you need further help. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/119 "2018-03-19T18:05:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > … but (and this is my fundamental position) **I’m generally of the opinion that presidents get far too much credit and / or blame for the economic situation** (as I mentioned at the tail end of post #58). Not trying to play dumb, but that position seems at odds with your OP: > [@](#): > > The February jobs report was very good, showing the economy added 313,000 jobs. This is the sort of news that I’m sure is met with delight in the White House (and I suspect with dismay by more than a few Dopers). **Trump seems to be having a very good start to his second year:** Sure seems like you were giving credit to the Trump Administration for good economic news. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310/120 "2018-03-19T18:25:21Z")
To what end? Is there a certain breakpoint after which we’re expected to say “Oh, well, I guess it’s okay that Trump’s a Nazi-loving Russian asset who has eviscerated the state department, cut corporations loose to poison you, and has all but destroyed the US’s relationships with its allies before embarking on a goodwill tour of his favourite dictatorships”? There’s no gotcha for the Trump supporters here; they have a term for Nazi-loving Russian assets who create lots of jobs, it’s “Nazi-loving Russian asset”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/february-jobs-report/810310.md?page=7)