# Fed Court: Mumia must have new penalty hearing.. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936 "2008-03-27T17:07:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2008, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/41 "2008-03-30T23:52:03Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Maybe so, but there is also evidence that the “poor guy” was a racist who made an unprovoked assault on Mumia’s brother. That doesn’t justify killing him, but maybe it should reduce the charge to non-capital, at least. [/QUOTE] What evidence? Here’s [something](http://www.danielfaulkner.com/original/indexmyth8.html) from a cite dedicated to rebutting all the Mumia bullshit being flung incessantly in defence of this creep. And [this](http://www.danielfaulkner.com/original/indexdecember9.html) might be interesting as well. I am from Philly and I am absolutely sick of the crap that people offer as evidence or mitigating factors for this guy. It never ends. I am familiar with the evidence. I’ve read large parts of the transcript. Nobody has ever offered a credible explanation for what happened that day other than Mumia killed an officer who was doing his job. God almighty, this is tiresome. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2008, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/42 "2008-03-30T23:56:01Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Actually, the Death Penalty costs more. [/QUOTE] I always hear this. How is it possible? Provided that we used the quick and cheap shot-in-the-head method and not convoluted, Bond-villain bullshit like the electric chair, how on earth could it cost more? I just want to know. I’m genuinely curious. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/43 "2008-03-31T00:30:27Z")
Just for a start your proposed “quick and cheap shot-in-the-head method” would kill some people who turn out to be innocent, and a lot more that arew guilty of lesser crimes than capital murder. You might not care about that, but most folks do, which is why the process is so long and drawn out. Yes, if you were tpo abolish all the protections and appeals, proceed straight from trial to execution, then it would be cheaper. But that isn’t the system you’ve got. Under the system you’ve actually got the death penalty is more expensive than imprisonment. The reason is simple. Most death sentences are overturned on appeal. That means you have all the expense of the death penalty process, and then when it’s all over you have to pay for life imprisonment AS WELL. Much cheaper if you just sentence them to life in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/44 "2008-03-31T02:00:04Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Highly dubious that he said that. Maybe so, but there is also evidence that the “poor guy” was a racist who made an unprovoked assault on Mumia’s brother. That doesn’t justify killing him, but maybe it should reduce the charge to non-capital, at least. [/QUOTE] There is no such evidence. It is totally invented. Why must Daniel Faulkner’s name be attached to this bullshit from the mouthpiece of MOVE? Is slandering the victim the only way to exonerate a guy who executed a cop with bullets to his face? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/45 "2008-03-31T02:03:17Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] Not to speak for Blake, but it sounds like you are conceding the first paragraph of his argument. There will be no savings if the death penalty were abolished. The money would be transferred to fighting for people with life w/o parole sentences. Then an argument could be made (the same one now with the D.P.) that we should save money by not having such a sentence and give everyone the possibility of parole. Then the high money would be on those sentences, etc. [/QUOTE] Assuming you mean his second paragraph, the answer is still no. **Blake** assumed I was advancing an argument against long sentences as well as the death penalty - untrue. While I know some people who make that argument, I know very few. Long sentences where warranted are fine by me. Just I would rather the money spent on procedural appeals in capital cases was spent on ensuring the actual guilt of those we are sentencing to long terms. Call me crazy that way. And imprisoning fewer innocent people would presumably save money. It might also do the justice system a bit of good too. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/46 "2008-03-31T02:11:08Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Highly dubious that he said that. > **[Mumia Abu-Jamal talks to Laura Smith about life in solitary, how he has...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/oct/25/usa.laurasmith)** > > The former Black Panther Mumia Abu-Jamal has spent 25 years on death row in the United States - despite strong evidence that he is innocent. In his first British interview, he talks to Laura Smith about life in solitary, how he has remained... \<\\> [/QUOTE] [Ahem.](http://danielfaulkner.com/original/indexmyth7.html) > [@](#): > > The confession was heard by a hospital security guard and reported by her the next day. Officers Gary Bell and Gary Wakshul each stated that they failed to write about the confession in their reports because they were emotionally devastated after seeing their friend and partner with a fatal hole in his head. They did not even remember what they had written in their reports immediately after the shooting. > > Taken alone, the officers’ explanation would certainly warrant some doubt. But the testimony of hospital security guard Priscilla Durham removes that doubt. She heard Jamal shout, “I shot the mother fucker and I hope the mother fucker dies” outside the ER, and made an immediate report of the incident. A copy of the report was produced at the 1982 trial and was identified by Ms. Durham. Priscilla Durham’s corroborates what the officers heard that morning and reported later, and demonstrates that it was an actual event, not an invention. The doctors never heard Mumia confess because doctors are not in the habit of being outside the emergency room helping police drag in beligerent patients into the emergency room. It wasn’t like he said it over and over. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/47 "2008-03-31T02:24:46Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Miskatonic] [Ahem.](http://danielfaulkner.com/original/indexmyth7.html) [/quote] Got any RELIABLE source? You have to recognise that that website is extremely biased. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/48 "2008-03-31T02:26:39Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Got any RELIABLE source? You have to recognise that that website is extremely biased. [/QUOTE] So having a bias means they are automatically wrong? You will need to do better than that. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/49 "2008-03-31T02:55:12Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Miskatonic] There is no such evidence. It is totally invented. Why must Daniel Faulkner’s name be attached to this bullshit from the mouthpiece of MOVE? Is slandering the victim the only way to exonerate a guy who executed a cop with bullets to his face? [/QUOTE] Because we all know that if he was _racist_, his killing was justified. Because that’s how it is, you know? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/50 "2008-03-31T02:56:56Z")
No, having a bias means that their data is questionable. Look, you claim to be a skeptic and a breaker of kooks, right? Maybe you should apply a little critical thinking to the situation. Maybe a website run by people who want Mumia dead might not tell the whole truth. Perhaps they have something to gain by lying. After all, you wouldn’t want to associate yourself with a known liar, would you? You wouldn’t want to turn a blind eye to dishonesty just because the lies happen to support your point of view… … would you? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/51 "2008-03-31T03:09:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* Peter Morris \*\*(message # 39) : Maybe so, but there is also evidence that the “poor guy” was a racist who made an unprovoked assault on Mumia’s brother. That doesn’t justify killing him, but maybe it should reduce the charge to non-capital, at least. > **Argent Towers** : Because we all know that if he was racist, his killing was justified. Because that’s how it is, you know? Argent Towers, I presume your misrepresentation of my words was accidental, and due to poor reading comprehension on your part. I am sure that you would not \*deliberately \*misrepresent my words so. Since it is obviously a blunder on your part, and not an act of deliberate malice, I see no need to report your misrepresentation to the mods. Perhaps you would care to admit your mistake, offer a humble, groveling apology, and withdraw your comment. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/52 "2008-03-31T03:10:01Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] No, having a bias means that their data is questionable. [/QUOTE] Their data comes from the trial. The trial is a matter of public record. If you have anything that counters their arguement, present it. > [@](#): > > Look, you claim to be a skeptic and a breaker of kooks, right? Maybe you should apply a little critical thinking to the situation. Maybe a website run by people who want Mumia dead might not tell the whole truth. Perhaps they have something to gain by lying. The one would figure that after 10 years of being on the web, and given the number of rabid Mumia fanatics out there, that someone might have managed to _point out_ one of these lies. But no! Every single time its the same thing: “They have a bias, and they disagree with me, so they must be lying…just don’t ask me where and how! Wah!” > [@](#): > > After all, you wouldn’t want to associate yourself with a known liar, would you? You wouldn’t want to turn a blind eye to dishonesty just because the lies happen to support your point of view… > > … would you? Grow up, Peter. You lost that arguement years ago. I am not a mod but I am certain they would not appreciate your attempt at a derail. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/53 "2008-03-31T03:20:17Z")
> [@](#): > > that someone might have managed to point out one of these lies. For a start, the lies on that website have been exposed. You would never accept it, of course. > [@](#): > > I am not a mod but I am certain they would not appreciate your attempt at a derail. And what the hell are you talking about? I’m asking you a direct question, would you ignore lies just because they happen to support your point of view, Mr so called skeptic? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/54 "2008-03-31T03:25:22Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] For a start, the lies on that website have been exposed. You would never accept it, of course. [/QUOTE] Such as what? You haven’t pointed any such ‘exposed lies’ on the danielfaulkner website. Where are they in this thread? Where are they at all? You’ve had two replies and all you can do is whine about them being biased. But being biased doesn’t automatically mean you are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/55 "2008-03-31T03:56:28Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Miskatonic] Such as what? You haven’t pointed any such ‘exposed lies’ on the danielfaulkner website. Where are they in this thread? Where are they at all? [/quote] Just for a start, look at your own quote which you took from the site. Look at the feebleness of the excuses they make. They explain how the police witness came to change their original statements, how we should accept their later statements, rather than their earlier ones, and how it differs from the doctors statements. It is way beyond obvious to me that the writer of that piece doesn’t believe a word of it, he’s just trying to snare the credulous. > [@](#): > > You’ve had two replies and all you can do is whine about them being biased. But being biased doesn’t automatically mean you are wrong. It does however mean that we should question their statements before accepting them. Just because their point of view happens to match yours doesn’t make them truthful. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/56 "2008-03-31T04:00:03Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Actually, a lot of the “constant mumia barrage” has actually come from her. from the article linked in the OP \<\< Faulkner has kept her husband’s memory alive through public appearances, a foundation and a recent book, “Murdered by Mumia: A Life Sentence of Loss, Pain and Injustice.” \>\> She doesn’t want to get away from this. She has been chasing publicity for 27 years. [/QUOTE] Are you serious? She’s been trying to protect her husband’s name and reputation from the attacks on same from his killer and the killer’s supporters. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/57 "2008-03-31T04:03:46Z")
Could you perhaps read the message I was responding to please. Someone claimed that she moved accross the country to get away from the constant Mumia barrage. To which my reply was that is the one creating a large percentage of the barrage. Do you doubt this? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/58 "2008-03-31T04:27:25Z")
I cannot reply to you properly in this forum. And I’m not going to waste my time doing it in the other forum. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/59 "2008-03-31T04:32:11Z")
I should have known that some of the “Free Mumia” contingent was on this board. I guess I just ignored it because it was so implausible. Imagine my surprise when I saw that there are people in this thread defending the scumbag. Defending Mumia is right up there with the Kennedy kooks and the 9/11-missile/government took down the towers contingent. It flies in the face of reason and reality, yet there we have it, right there on the screen. Unbelievable. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/60 "2008-03-31T04:35:18Z")
Has anyone actually advocated freeing Mumia here? I must have missed it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936.md?page=4)