# Fed Court: Mumia must have new penalty hearing.. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936 "2008-03-27T17:07:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/141 "2008-04-02T02:46:38Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] “research” meaning “has read a website written by people who want Mumia dead.” [/QUOTE] I’ve read the trial transcripts of the original trial as well as the appeal. That is research. I refer people to the [danielfaulkner.com](http://danielfaulkner.com) website because they use excerpts from those trial’s transcripts and have them online for confirmation. > [@](#): > > Basically, he complained from the start that his court appointed lawyer had repeatedly refused to follow instructions, that the defence being given was not the defence he wanted, and so on. Oh please! He chose Anthony Jackson to be his legal counsel while he represented himself. Then at the beginning of the trial he suddenly insisted that John Africa be his counsel. He did this without motion or warning, and John Africa was a radical in _prison_ with _no legal experience!_ It was nothing more than an attempt to disrupt the court! > [@](#): > > He repeatedly said this man is not my lawyer, don’t listen to him listen to me, and so on. And he was repeatedly silenced. He was removed and silenced because he was _in contempt of court!_ As a defendant, even one representing himself, he does not have the right to disrupt the court with ridiculous demands. When he realized that his antics were not going to be tolerated and resulted in his removal from the courts Jackson did what he could to carry on the defense, so Mumia took to whining about jackson since he wasn’t allowed to turn the courtroom into his own playhouse. > [@](#): > > The anti-Mumia lobby present this as Mumia wrecking his own case. To me it looks like his lawyer wrecked the case, and Mumia got understandably angry. Mumia represented himself, but could not control himself. Mumia controlled the notes and documents. That often left Jackson without important materials. > [@](#): > > It is a highly biased site with a particular agenda that distorts everything in favour of that agenda. And, inconveniently for you, backs it up with documentation and facts. > [@](#): > > Let me spell this out clearly. The freemumia website is full of lies. The danielfaulkner website is full of lies. Neither one is to be trusted. You have so far been unable to prove one single lie on the [danielfaulkner.com](http://danielfaulkner.com) website. > [@](#): > > Having looked at both sides and tried to pick my way through the lies told by both I believe the following: > > 1. Mumia killed Faulkner Executed him, but yes. > [@](#): > > 1. He did so because Faulkner was attempting to beat up his brother That’s horseshit. Completely and utterly unsupported. The witnesses all state that Cook was already subdued by the time Mumia got to Faulkner. Cook’s injuries do not match a person who was already ‘beat up’. Cook started the conflict, according to the witnesses and was hit at most three times. > [@](#): > > 1. he is guilty of criminal homicide > 2. but not capital murder > 3. 25 years in prison is sufficient punishment for his crime. No, it is not. He executed a Faulkner with bullets to the face. Someone like that never deserves to go free. It was a cold blooded execution. > [@](#): > > Or maybe he could plead mitigating circumstances, and get the charges reduced to a lesser degree of homicide. In all these years, he’s never told a story of what happened. Yet we are supposed to set him free because of this speculation? In my opinion Mumia may have set the whole thing up. He told his brother to pull the shit he did, but didn’t tell him he was going to try and kill a cop. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/142 "2008-04-02T02:57:26Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] Except he didn’t plead this. He said he didn’t do it. His brother wouldn’t testify against him so your logic regarding Faulkner beating him up needs to be explained. [/QUOTE] Okay, you tell me. WHY did Mumia kill him, then? I think it was because he was beating up his brother. If you doubt that, please supply some other reason that motivated the killing. Your logic needs to be explained. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/143 "2008-04-02T03:03:15Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Miskatonic] In my opinion Mumia may have set the whole thing up. He told his brother to pull the shit he did, but didn’t tell him he was going to try and kill a cop. [/QUOTE] Anyone else buy this particular conspiracy theory? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/144 "2008-04-02T03:03:39Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Okay, you tell me. WHY did Mumia kill him, then? [/QUOTE] It’s rather obvious to those able to follow the chain of reason and logic that the reason is he’s a cold-blooded killer and chose a police officer to kill. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/145 "2008-04-02T03:11:05Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Miskatonic] You have so far been unable to prove one single lie on the [danielfaulkner.com](http://danielfaulkner.com) website. [/QUOTE] Oh, come off it. That stuff about Mumia’s alleged confession, where the cops changed their stories, and the medical staff said that Mumia wasn’t in a position to be speaking at all. If you really, honestly believe in the confession, if you truely can’t see what an obvious lie it is, then there’s no hope for you. You believe it because it supports your position, not because it is based on logic. It is obvious fakery, and the danielfaulkner website undermines its own credibility by supporting it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/146 "2008-04-02T03:14:28Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Okay, you tell me. WHY did Mumia kill him, then? I think it was because he was beating up his brother. If you doubt that, please supply some other reason that motivated the killing. Your logic needs to be explained. [/QUOTE] You want the background? Start looking at MOVE. The MOVE 9. The confrontation between MOVE and the Philly Police department. Mumia’s change from a responsible socialist reporter to a radical MOVE supporter (and part-time Taxi driver). His buying a gun. etc. etc. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/147 "2008-04-02T03:16:07Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Oh, come off it. That stuff about Mumia’s alleged confession, where the cops changed their stories, and the medical staff said that Mumia wasn’t in a position to be speaking at all. [/QUOTE] So, no lies then, eh? > [@](#): > > If you really, honestly believe in the confession, if you truely can’t see what an obvious lie it is, then there’s no hope for you. So, you found no lies then? > [@](#): > > You believe it because it supports your position, not because it is based on logic. It is obvious fakery, and the danielfaulkner website undermines its own credibility by supporting it. So, you found no lies then? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/148 "2008-04-02T03:16:52Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] It’s rather obvious to those able to follow the chain of reason and logic that the reason is he’s a cold-blooded killer and chose a police officer to kill. [/QUOTE] So basically you think it was a conspiracy? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/149 "2008-04-02T03:20:11Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Anyone else buy this particular conspiracy theory? [/QUOTE] It is a personal consideration. I cannot say that I buy into it fully myself. I doubt anyone else thinks much of it and I do not care. But who the fuck drives the wrong way up Locust St? In front of where his brother is parked at 2AM in the morning? Fucking Locust St! Then he tries to pick a fight with the cop who pulls him over?! If William hadn’t been goaded by his brother into doing this (maybe without Billy Cook knowing how far Mumia was going to go) then he was either drunk as a skunk or the world’s worst driver. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/150 "2008-04-02T03:22:03Z")
No. I think you’re making stuff up or accepting as fact that which others have obviously made up. One man a conspiracy does not make. You condemned the widow with no evidence and are now paying, so to speak, for that lapse. Perhaps you should either admit your own bias or quit digging the hole deeper. Nor do I want the convicted murderer to die. I am against the death penalty in all cases. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/151 "2008-04-02T03:22:08Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Anyone else buy this particular conspiracy theory? [/QUOTE] It is a personal consideration. I cannot say that I buy into it fully myself. I doubt anyone else thinks much of it and I do not care. But who the fuck drives the wrong way up Locust St? In front of where his brother is parked at 2AM in the morning? Fucking Locust St! Then he tries to pick a fight with the cop who pulls him over?! Again, conveniently in front of where his cop-hating brother was parked. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/152 "2008-04-02T03:24:22Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Miskatonic] So, no lies then, eh? [/QUOTE] Overwhelming evidence that they are lying. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/153 "2008-04-02T03:26:07Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Miskatonic] It is a personal consideration. I cannot say that I buy into it fully myself. I doubt anyone else thinks much of it and I do not care.. [/QUOTE] Oh, so you don’t believe it, but you are willing to trot it out in support of your desires. What does that say about you? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/154 "2008-04-02T03:26:07Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Overwhelming evidence that they are lying. [/QUOTE] Saying you don’t like their explanation does not mean they are lying. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/155 "2008-04-02T03:27:16Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] So basically you think it was a conspiracy? [/QUOTE] A one man conspiracy? Funny definitions you have there. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/156 "2008-04-02T03:32:51Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Oh, so you don’t believe it, [/QUOTE] As I already said. There are some rather odd coincidences that might just be coincidences, but they might not be. I just point it out because the events that led to the murder often get overlooked, and they have far more merit than say, the claims that Faulkner was racist, or that he was beating William Cook. > [@](#): > > but you are willing to trot it out in support of your desires. > > What does that say about you? Why don’t you tell me. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/157 "2008-04-02T03:40:01Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] You condemned the widow [/quote] I did no such thing. I made a simple statement that was in no way an attack. > [@](#): > > with no evidence No, my statement is amply supported. I stand by the statement that the cops widow has actively sought publicity. How is it possible to doubt that statement? You haven’t actually said what you object to. What do you see as objectionable about that statement? All you’ve done is pour out hate. Which I won’t dignify with a response. Please consider a statement made by McGyver earlier in this thread > [@](#): > > Officer Faulkner’s widow has tirelessly waged a war against the misinformation that has sprung from this man. Do you object to this statement? Do interpret it as an attack on his widow? Or possibly you could admit that you were mistaken. That YOU read malice into my post, where none existed, and the error is yours. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/158 "2008-04-02T03:45:49Z")
You accused the woman of chasing publicity. That is a lie. You accused me of pouring out hate. That is also a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/159 "2008-04-02T03:50:05Z")
Your comment: [QUOTE=Peter Morris] She doesn’t want to get away from this. She has been chasing publicity for 27 years. [/QUOTE] Mcgyver’s comment: [QUOTE=McGyver] Officer Faulkner’s widow has tirelessly waged a war against the misinformation that has sprung from this man. [/QUOTE] I’m sorry if you cannot see the difference. Yours is most patently an attack. McGyver’s is not. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936/160 "2008-04-02T03:56:52Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Okay, you tell me. WHY did Mumia kill him, then? I think it was because he was beating up his brother. If you doubt that, please supply some other reason that motivated the killing. Your logic needs to be explained. [/QUOTE] If I remember correctly he was a black Panther bigot who drove a taxi because he couldn’t keep a job. His brother was pulled over by Faulkner for driving the wrong way down a one-way street with his lights off in the early morning hours. Witnesses said Mumia’s brother physically assaulted the officer for which he pleaded guilty to the charge. He was subdued with 3 hits of either Faulkner’s flashlight or night stick for which he suffered a cut on his ear requiring no medical attention. Pictures of which were introduced at trial. Not only was his brother not beaten he started a fight with the officer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fed-court-mumia-must-have-new-penalty-hearing/442936.md?page=9)