# Federal City Slaves **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 4, 2001, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258 "2001-07-04T22:42:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2001, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/1 "2001-07-04T22:42:29Z")
In my [Reagan National Airport](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=63831) thread I’m mostly bitching & moaning about how the Feds pretty much get their way with anything in DC. They want Virginia to rename a metro stop after a former president (instead of just keeping it named after nobody in particular), and have threatened to screw us sideways without lube or condoms unless the Commonwealth complies. Of course, the station will probably end up being renamed because this is Congress’s city after all. But I am stuck with some legal questions: What if Virginia says no, that it won’t be renaming that metro stop? Numerous cites affirm that name changes at Metro stops must be initiated by the jurisdiction in which the stop resides. Can DC really be held hostage over something it can’t do anything about? Moving on to the deeper issue, does the city really belong to the Federal Government _in toto_? What happens if the feds want all the lines down the middle of the street to be painted orange instead of white, or all DC residents to paint their houses pink, or all businesses to fly the Jolly Roger? If it was any real state, the citizens would rile up and vote the idiot senator/congressperson out of office. That’s not an option for Washingtonians. Are we slaves to the Federal Machine? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/2 "2001-07-05T01:21:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Attrayant \* > \*\*In my [Reagan National Airport](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=63831) thread I’m mostly bitching & moaning about how the Feds pretty much get their way with anything in DC. They want Virginia to rename a metro stop after a former president (instead of just keeping it named after nobody in particular), and have threatened to screw us sideways without lube or condoms unless the Commonwealth complies. \*\* So far as I know Washington D.C. is not Virginia. Marc ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/3 "2001-07-05T12:35:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Attrayant \* > > \*\*In my [Reagan National Airport](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=63831) thread I’m mostly bitching & moaning about how the Feds pretty much get their way with anything in DC. They want Virginia to rename a metro stop after a former president (instead of just keeping it named after nobody in particular), and have threatened to screw us sideways without lube or condoms unless the Commonwealth complies. > > \*\* > > So far as I know Washington D.C. is not Virginia. > > Marc > \*\* Since I’m currently sitting atop the Courthouse Metro stop, only six stops away from the National Airport stop, I can assure you that the National Airport Metro stop is in fact in Arlington, VA. ---
**Author:** ![gEEk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed8c4c/32.png) [@gEEk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gEEk)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/4 "2001-07-05T12:46:43Z")
The short answer is yes, residents of the District are powerless against the wishes of Congress. From the U.S. Constitution Section 8, Clause 17 > [@](#): > > [The Congress shall have Power To] exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; Barring an amendment, residents of DC are at the mercy of the whim of such luminaries as the aformentioned Bob Barr (R Ga). Sucks to be you guys. To answer the larger question, **should** Congress have exclusive dominion over DC and its residents? I would have to answer with a qualified no. I think that the issue of federal supremacy is not the problem it may have been 213 years ago. The federal goverment has buildings, bases and parks in every state in the union and there don’t seem to be any large problems. Another question is, is the cure worse than the disease? What happens if Congress grants DC statehood? How will the District raise enough revenue to fund itself? DC doesn’t have a great track record when it comes to self-governance. The problem is, unlike other urban centers with similar problems (Philadelphia, Baltimore, etc) DC doesn’t have a suburban/rural state to draw additional funding from. Remove federal control and the accompanying federal money and DC is in a serious hole with no clear way out. **pldennison** said: > [@](#): > > Since I’m currently sitting atop the Courthouse Metro stop, only six stops away from the National Airport stop, I can assure you that the National Airport Metro stop is in fact in Arlington, VA. Sorry **pldennison** , you are incorrect. From the [National Airport Homepage](http://www.mwaa.com/national/lost.htm) > [@](#): > > Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport, Airport Police Station, Lower Level Terminal ‘A’, Washington, D.C. 20001. As I mentioned in the original thread, National is not unique in this regard. The Naval Research Lab, located on the Maryland side of the Potomac, is also part of DC. gEEk ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/5 "2001-07-05T12:57:43Z")
Great–that tells me where the airport is. Where’s the Metro stop? (And if you tell me it’s in DC, I’m going to ask you two questions: 1) Why, then, do Metro drivers on the Yellow and Blue Lines not inform riders, following the Braddock Road stop, that they are now leaving the Commonwealth of Virginia, as Orange Line drivers do when travelling eastbound from Rosslyn? 2) Is the Key Bridge in Virginia or DC?) ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/6 "2001-07-05T13:08:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gEEk \* > \*\ ***pldennison** said: > > > [@](#): > > > > Since I’m currently sitting atop the Courthouse Metro stop, only six stops away from the National Airport stop, I can assure you that the National Airport Metro stop is in fact in Arlington, VA. > > Sorry **pldennison** , you are incorrect. From the [National Airport Homepage](http://www.mwaa.com/national/lost.htm) > > > [@](#): > > > > Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport, Airport Police Station, Lower Level Terminal ‘A’, Washington, D.C. 20001. > > As I mentioned in the original thread, National is not unique in this regard. The Naval Research Lab, located on the Maryland side of the Potomac, is also part of DC. > > gEEk \*\* Is this just a convenience address to make it look more like the National Airport by making it look like it is in DC. IIRC it is physically in VA (maps from the National Geographic show the state line running along the Potomac to the east of the airport) and the area code is Alexandria. Possibly it is under DC jurisdiction for some reasons, but I would bet that it is part of VA and pays taxes there- can’t see VA giving that resource up. DO correct me if I am wrong. I note that the US census bureau gives the following: Our postal address: U.S. Census Bureau Washington DC 20233 Our physical street address: 4700 Silver Hill Road Suitland, MD 20746 Looks like an image adjustment to be- better for a national organization to be in DC. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/7 "2001-07-05T13:17:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gEEk \* > \*\*As I mentioned in the original thread, National is not unique in this regard. The Naval Research Lab, located on the Maryland side of the Potomac, is also part of DC. > > gEEk \*\* According to this map from their site: [http://www.nrl.navy.mil/images/map2nrl.gif](http://www.nrl.navy.mil/images/map2nrl.gif) they are physically in DC. ---
**Author:** ![GrizzRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ba0ec/32.png) [@GrizzRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrizzRich)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/8 "2001-07-05T13:22:09Z")
IIRC from my days of living in Arlington VA… Washington National Airport is on land that was annexed by Washington DC and is wholly within the state of Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![gEEk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed8c4c/32.png) [@gEEk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gEEk)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/9 "2001-07-05T13:39:31Z")
**pldennison** said: > [@](#): > > Great–that tells me where the airport is. Where’s the Metro stop? This is not as easy as it may seem, Metro’s website does not give an address for the National Airport stop. However, my WAG would be it is located in DC as it is completely within the airport grounds. > [@](#): > > 1. Why, then, do Metro drivers on the Yellow and Blue Lines not inform riders, following the Braddock Road stop, that they are now leaving the Commonwealth of Virginia, as Orange Line drivers do when travelling eastbound from Rosslyn? Because it doesn’t matter? The only people who care where National Airport is are Congressmen with too much time on their hands. > [@](#): > > 1. Is the Key Bridge in Virginia or DC?) Dunno, but the bridge was built by an act of Congress, so my guess would be neither, the federal goverment owns the bridge. On the subject of NRL, **Pjen** , thanks for the clarification. gEEk ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/10 "2001-07-05T13:47:32Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by gEEk \* > \*\* This is not as easy as it may seem, Metro’s website does not give an address for the National Airport stop. However, my WAG would be it is located in DC as it is completely within the airport grounds._\* If the Metro Station is within the Airport, and the Airport is in VA, then surely, the Metro Station is also in VA. As noted above, the only suggestion so far that the Airport is in DC is its postal address- everything else points to it being in VA. ---
**Author:** ![gEEk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed8c4c/32.png) [@gEEk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gEEk)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/11 "2001-07-05T14:35:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pjen \* > If the Metro Station is within the Airport, and the Airport is in VA, then surely, the Metro Station is also in VA. As noted above, the only suggestion so far that the Airport is in DC is its postal address- everything else points to it being in VA. The airport is surrounded by VA, but not part of it. The land and everything on it are legally part of the District of Columbia as far as I know. gEEk ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/12 "2001-07-05T15:08:36Z")
Is everyone sure they’re not confusing ownership with jurisdiction? A political entity can own property which is not within its borders, and yet jurisdiction remains with the entity in which it’s located. For example, a neighboring city actually owns a chunk of land in my city, as part of the reservoir system for its own water supply. The other city owns the streets and utilities on that land (which makes maintenance responsibility a fun discussion when needed, btw). There are even operating agreements between the 2 cities for purchase of water when needed. But the land remains part of my city, and under my city’s legal jurisdiction. It may certainly be that the District government, in it’s capacity as a quasi-corporate operating entity, owns some of the land on which DCA is located, but that it’s still legally in Virginia. If so, then Congressional control only extends to how the District government operates its property, not to Virginia’s jurisdiction over it in other matters, such as in the naming of Metro stations. **pldennison** , fine suggestion re the RFK Stadium stop. ---
**Author:** ![Father\_Pacelli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Father\_Pacelli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Father_Pacelli)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/13 "2001-07-05T15:49:35Z")
The stop is in Virginia. I know, as I’ve been there. I say go ahead and rename the stop. But it’s damn sickening that Bob Barr won’t provide the funding. I’d like to see a Constitutional Amendment stating that if the feds demand that a state/locality do something, the feds must either fully fund it or drop their demand. [thread hijack] Something similar came up when the new golden dollar coin was minted. The feds wanted the DC subway to change its farecard machines to accomodate the new coin. The locals said no way. [/thread hijack] Change the station name to “Reagan National” and make the feds pay up. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/14 "2001-07-05T16:45:39Z")
Wait, help me out here. Is this Great Debate “The DC Statehood Question,” or “Are Certain Airports and Metro Stops in DC or Virginia?” ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/15 "2001-07-05T17:58:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gEEk \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Pjen \* > > If the Metro Station is within the Airport, and the Airport is in VA, then surely, the Metro Station is also in VA. As noted above, the only suggestion so far that the Airport is in DC is its postal address- everything else points to it being in VA. > > The airport is surrounded by VA, but not part of it. The land and everything on it are legally part of the District of Columbia as far as I know. > > gEEk \*\* Every map that I have consulted shows it as part of VA. Show me a map that shows that it is part of DC, then I’ll consider believing it (after comparing them with maps showing it as part of VA). ---
**Author:** ![gEEk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed8c4c/32.png) [@gEEk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gEEk)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/16 "2001-07-05T19:03:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pjen \* > Show me a map that shows that it is part of DC, then I’ll consider believing it (after comparing them with maps showing it as part of VA). \*\* Oh boy, am I sorry I ever got involved in this topic. Talk about confusing. Here’s what I’ve learned so far: Prior to 1985 the Federal Government controlled both National and Dulles airports directly. In 1986 Congress passed the [Metropolitan Washington Airports Act](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/unframed/49/ch491.html#PC491) This, along with related legislation in both DC and VA created [The Metropolitan Washinton Airport Authority](http://www.metwashairports.com). This body, according to the Supreme Court in [this case](http://www.usdoj.gov/osg/briefs/1990/sg900553.txt) is an independent political entity: > [@](#): > > The Airports Authority must have powers granted by Virginia and the District of Columbia, but must be an independent political subdivision constituted solely to operate the local airports. However, according to [US Code: Title 49, Chapter 491](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/unframed/49/49111.html) Virginia shares police powers with the Airport Authority. > [@](#): > > © Police Power. - Virginia shall have concurrent police power authority over the Metropolitan Washington Airports, and the courts of Virginia may exercise jurisdiction over Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport. The net result of all this seems to be that I was exactly wrong, DC has no jurisdiction whatsoever over National Airport; **Pjen** and others are partially right, Virginia retains some jurisdiction over the airports; however, the authority that runs both airports is an independent political entity, whatever that means. Whew, what a mess. Quite a hijack too. gEEk ---
**Author:** ![FortMarcy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9de053/32.png) [@FortMarcy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FortMarcy)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2001, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/17 "2001-07-06T06:16:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gEEk \* > However, according to [US Code: Title 49, Chapter 491](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/unframed/49/49111.html) Virginia shares police powers with the Airport Authority. > > > [@](#): > > > > © Police Power. - Virginia shall have concurrent police power authority over the Metropolitan Washington Airports, and the courts of Virginia may exercise jurisdiction over Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport. > > The net result of all this seems to be that I was exactly wrong, DC has no jurisdiction whatsoever over National Airport; **Pjen** and others are partially right, Virginia retains some jurisdiction over the airports; however, the authority that runs both airports is an independent political entity, whatever that means. > > Whew, what a mess. Quite a hijack too. This isn’t a hijack, it’s just a roundabout path that leads us to the answer of the original question. First let’s address the issue of whether National Airport is in the District of Columbia. Your quote actually indicates that the airport is not in Virginia. If it were, the portion of the code giving Virginia courts jurisdiction would not be needed. Notice how Dulles (which is obviously in Virginia) was not included in that statement. The exception proves the rule. If that is not enough evidence, let’s look at the very next section: > [@](#): > > (d) Planning. - (1) The authority of the National Capital Planning Commission under section 5 of the Act of June 6, 1924 (40 U.S.C. 71d), does not apply to the Airports Authority. The act referred to is: TITLE 40 - PUBLIC BUILDINGS, PROPERTY, AND WORKS CHAPTER 1 - PUBLIC BUILDINGS, GROUNDS, PARKS, AND WHARVES IN DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA Sec. 71d. Proposed Federal and District developments and projects If National Airport were located in Virginia, this act would not apply and no mention of it would be required. Once again, the exception proving the rule. The boundary between Virginia and the District was defined as the Virginia shoreline at low tide. The federal government reclaimed land on the Virginia side to build the airport. But it is doubtful that the shoreline change equated to a change in the District-Virginia border. (If it did, I think Virginia would be engaging in a great number of reclamation projects these days). So, the federal government reclaimed part of the Potomac that belonged to the District to build an airport. Then a few decades later they leased it to some quasi-governmental multi-jurisdictional agency. They also gave the police and courts of Virginia jurisdiction there. How much say did the District government have in all this? None. Attrayant asks: “Are we slaves to the Federal Machine?” Damn straight. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2001, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/18 "2001-07-06T12:55:15Z")
I gave in and e-mailed National’s Press Office, their reply: \*National Airport is located in Arlington, Virginia. If you have specific questions about its status as a federally owned property, please call our Legal Office at 703-417-8615. Thank you.\* There you go, In VA, but federally owned- like many other properties around the country. It’s just because it’s so close to DC that it seems confusing. ---
**Author:** ![gEEk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed8c4c/32.png) [@gEEk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gEEk)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2001, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/19 "2001-07-06T13:36:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pjen \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > National Airport is located in Arlington, Virginia. > > There you go, In VA, but federally owned- like many other properties around the country. It’s just because it’s so close to DC that it seems confusing. \*\* How does this jibe with the Supreme Courts interpretation that the airport is a seperate political entity from Virginia? As **FortMarcy** points out, there are a lot of National specific rules in the US Code that indicate that while Virginia maintains some jurisdiction over the Airport, such as police and judicial, it is in fact seperate when it comes to the park and planning commision? BTW, **FortMarcy** this: > [@](#): > > How much say did the District government have in all this? None. is incorrect. From the [Airport Authority homepage](http://www.metwashairports.com/authority/index.htm): > [@](#): > > The Authority is a public body politic and corporate, created with the consent of the Congress of the United States by the District of Columbia Regional Airports Authority Act of 1985, as amended, and Ch. 598, Virginia Acts of Assembly of 1985, as amended. So in fact, DC and VA did get a say in the creation of the Airport Authority. How much input they had, I dunno, but it wasn’t a complete Federal whitewash. gEEk ---
**Author:** ![FortMarcy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9de053/32.png) [@FortMarcy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FortMarcy)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2001, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258/20 "2001-07-06T17:51:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gEEk \* > So in fact, DC and VA did get a say in the creation of the Airport Authority. How much input they had, I dunno, but it wasn’t a complete Federal whitewash. They did get a say in the creation of the Airport Authority. But, if they had objected, they would have just been steamrolled by Congress. My basic point is that the District government serves at the pleasure (displeasure?) of the federal government. [hijack] That being said…let’s return to the more interesting (to me at least) question of the location of National Airport… Q: Is Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport located in the Commonwealth of Virginia or the District of Columbia? A: Both. This issue was apparently a problem from the time the airport opened. Virginia and the District were simultaneously claiming jurisdiction (and collecting taxes there). While World War II was raging, the House committee overseeing the District tried to resolve the issue. The Senate formed the “Virginia-District of Columbia Boundary Commission”. The result was the “Virginia-District of Columbia Boundary Line Compact of 1946”. Here is the related Virginia code: [7.1-10. Boundary line between Virginia and District of Columbia](http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+7.1-10) The whole thing is basically a mangled mess trying to redefine the boundary, decide who gets to tax airport services, and attempting to state that the U.S. still owns the airport. Section 106 refers to “…such portions…of the Washington National Airport as are situated within the Commonwealth of Virginia.” This indicates that the DC-VA boundary lies somewhere within airport grounds. [/hijack] [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-city-slaves/71258.md?page=2)