# federal government shutdown **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 29, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079 "2017-11-29T18:49:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/201 "2017-12-07T15:21:48Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > … They probably don’t have to. If the republicans can’t even muster 50 votes for it, not really the dems fault. > > Personally, I would like to see funding to not have a filibuster, as the minority party shouldn’t be able to shut down the govt on a whim, and I would oppose the dems filibustering this bill. > > OTOH, if the republicans can’t get together enough votes to pass it, I don’t think the dems should help them without some sort of concessions. They could do this easily by all voting for cloture and against final passage. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/202 "2017-12-07T15:48:21Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yes, I understand that. I’m wondering if, in previous government shutdowns under Obama, the polling was, “Do you blame Democrats, Republicans, or President Obama?” Or if it was just, “Do you blame Democrats or Republicans,” with the assumption that blaming Obama was the same as blaming the Democrats, and vice versa. Oh, I misunderstood your point. I found polls from 2013 the phrased the question both ways: separating Congressional Dems from Obama, and not doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/203 "2017-12-07T15:51:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > They could do this easily by all voting for cloture and against final passage. When you suggest that they vote for it before they vote against it, surely you acknowledge that doing so is not going to be understood by anyone. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/204 "2017-12-07T16:00:43Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > When you suggest that they vote for it before they vote against it, surely you acknowledge that doing so is not going to be understood by anyone. I wasn’t really ‘suggesting’ it (mostly because of the futility: D Senators don’t generally listen to what a Utah conservative wants them to do), so much as pointing out if they wanted to go with **k9bfriender** ’s preferred option, the mechanism exists for them to do exactly that. I suspect that they’re going to try to haggle some concessions out of McConnell in exchange for their cloture vote. As for it not being understood, I suspect you and I would understand that, but certainly the vast majority of our countrymen are ignorant of the inner workings of Congressional procedure and would not understand it particularly well. Yes, it’s the sort of material campaign ads are built from. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/205 "2017-12-07T16:05:50Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > They could do this easily by all voting for cloture and against final passage. Does cloture always need to be voted for? What if they just don’t filibuster in the first place? I am not saying that this is what I think the dems will do, I really don’t know what they ill end up doing. But it is what I would prefer them to do. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/206 "2017-12-07T16:10:49Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Does cloture always need to be voted for? What if they just don’t filibuster in the first place? > > I am not saying that this is what I think the dems will do, I really don’t know what they ill end up doing. But it is what I would prefer them to do. I’m not certain on the parliamentary procedures, but I believe if they get “unanimous consent” to end debate, no vote for cloture would be necessary. But every D granting their consent is a vote of sorts too, and I believe extremely unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/207 "2017-12-07T17:04:57Z")
[The Hill reports](http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/363677-schumer-walks-tightrope-on-shutdown-immigration-fights): > [@](#): > > The threat of a government shutdown has put Senate Democratic Leader Charles Schumer (N.Y.) in a tricky political situation. > > … > > Democrats facing reelection next year in states that voted for Trump don’t want to risk a shutdown over the issue. > > “I still don’t think government shutdown is a good thing,” said Sen. Jon Tester (D-Mont.), who has a tough reelection next year. > > … > > Other Democrats are taking a harder line on the issue — and are open to using a shutdown fight as leverage to help the Dreamers. > > This group includes most of the large class of Senate Democrats thought to be considering presidential runs in 2020. > > … ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/208 "2017-12-08T19:41:07Z")
Old news by now, I’m sure, but [no shutdown for another 2 weeks](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-signs-two-week-spending-bill-avert-government-shutdown), at least. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/209 "2017-12-08T19:42:46Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Old news by now, I’m sure, but [no shutdown for another 2 weeks](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-signs-two-week-spending-bill-avert-government-shutdown), at least. Just in time for Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/210 "2017-12-19T16:54:23Z")
So, does everyone expect another short-term spending bill to pass within the next 3 days? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/211 "2017-12-19T17:26:14Z")
Democrats would be unwise to shut down the government over Dreamers, especially when they haven’t really discussed shutting down the government over the tax bill, doing more to support Obamacare, and things that matter to most Americans. I sympathize with Dreamers, but a Democrat-led shutdown over them would play right into the GOP’s hands. They would be crazy to do it. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/212 "2017-12-19T18:03:28Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Democrats would be unwise to shut down the government over Dreamers,… [This FiveThirtyEight article](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/democrats-appear-to-have-lost-the-daca-fight-for-now/) agrees. Which is disappointing, that Democrats missed out on using the shutdown as a leverage on anything. Then again, perhaps it doesn’t work as leverage when you care more about it than the other guys do. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/213 "2017-12-19T18:32:40Z")
We have more data about who would be blamed for a shutdown courtesy of a [PPP poll from last week](https://www.publicpolicypolling.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/PPP_Release_National_121417.pdf). Government shutdown blame… All respondents Blame DJT and Reps 52% Blame Dems 40% Not sure 7% Trump voters Blame DJT and Reps 11% Blame Dems 81% Not sure 7% Clinton voters Blame DJT and Reps 86% Blame Dems 9% Not sure 5% 0% of thread participants are surprised by this at this point. Additionally, government shutdown support/oppose… All respondents Support 20% Oppose 63% Not sure 17% Trump voters Support 33% Oppose 49% Not sure 18% Clinton voters Support 10% Oppose 75% Not sure 15% This, in my opinion, is mildly interesting. About one in three (33%) Trump voters support a shutdown. They do not provide the cross tab to determine the proportion of Trump voters who support a shutdown and would also blame Dems for it. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/214 "2017-12-20T00:03:36Z")
They might still blame republicans (mostly) for the shutdown, and simultaneously blame democrats for the shutdown as well. When Bill Clinton shut down the government to protect social programs in the mid-1990s, that was a smart shutdown. That was taking Newt Gingrich to the woodshed and spanking him. When Obama allowed the Tea Party to shut down the government, that also probably played to his advantage because it was over economics. Shutting down the government to promote the rights of undocumented immigrants - regardless of how we feel about their situation - is not going to be a winner. The perception of a Democratic party that cares more about immigrants and diversity at the expense of the white working class is a main reason they lost last year, and it wasn’t just Hillary’s error. It might even be possible to have a shutdown over this issue next year or the year after, but not now. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/215 "2017-12-20T03:07:18Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Democrats would be unwise to shut down the government over Dreamers, especially when they haven’t really discussed shutting down the government over the tax bill, doing more to support Obamacare, and things that matter to most Americans. I sympathize with Dreamers, but a Democrat-led shutdown over them would play right into the GOP’s hands. They would be crazy to do it. This is the only leverage they have, so they best be wise and use it to its fullest extent. No one really cares if the gov’t shuts down, republicans proved that last time. ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/216 "2017-12-20T05:16:28Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > They might still blame republicans (mostly) for the shutdown, and simultaneously blame democrats for the shutdown as well. When Bill Clinton shut down the government to protect social programs in the mid-1990s, that was a smart shutdown. That was taking Newt Gingrich to the woodshed and spanking him. When Obama allowed the Tea Party to shut down the government, that also probably played to his advantage because it was over economics. Shutting down the government to promote the rights of undocumented immigrants - regardless of how we feel about their situation - is not going to be a winner. The perception of a Democratic party that cares more about immigrants and diversity at the expense of the white working class is a main reason they lost last year, and it wasn’t just Hillary’s error. It might even be possible to have a shutdown over this issue next year or the year after, but not now. Agreed on all of this. Still not sure though why only DACA is getting mentioned in the media. The Republicans would have a much harder time refusing if Democrats were mentioning CHIP every 5 minutes and tying cooperation on the budget to getting CHIP reauthorized. It’s hard to imagine worse optics for the Republicans than shutting down the government because they refuse to continue health insurance coverage for the kids of working-class parents. But that’s Democratic politicians for you; weak, spineless, and inept, roll over anytime there’s a 1% risk things will go awry. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/217 "2017-12-20T12:27:08Z")
> [@AI\_Proofreader](#): > > Agreed on all of this. Still not sure though why only DACA is getting mentioned in the media. > > The Republicans would have a much harder time refusing if Democrats were mentioning CHIP every 5 minutes and tying cooperation on the budget to getting CHIP reauthorized. It’s hard to imagine worse optics for the Republicans than shutting down the government because they refuse to continue health insurance coverage for the kids of working-class parents. > > But that’s Democratic politicians for you; weak, spineless, and inept, roll over anytime there’s a 1% risk things will go awry. I think the Democrats have found their spines; its their brains that they’re still scrambling to find. I’m not convinced that they have really put their finger on why they’ve been getting defeated in election after election over the past 2 decades. There’s a growing divide between the urban coastal democrats who are infuriated by Trump and want the Democratic party to be the equal and opposition reaction to his actions, and the more moderate voices of the party who are the ones who can win over the white working class voters in the suburbs and the interior. It’s not that Democrats shouldn’t fight back against Trump and his racism - they absolutely can and must do that. But I think Bernie Sanders is right: think in terms of class, and fight for causes that unite everyone. DACA doesn’t unite everyone. CHIP does, or at least it should. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/218 "2017-12-20T14:02:30Z")
My theory is that CHIP and DACA are programs the republicans suspended for the sole purpose of creating bargaining chips for these shutdown battles. The democrats are foolish enough to think that getting these restored would be a big win. They really should ask and demand more, as again, this is the only time they have any leverage. In fact, they shouldn’t even ask for CHIP and DACA concessions. Let the republicans own those. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079.md?page=10)