# federal government shutdown **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 29, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079 "2017-11-29T18:49:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/81 "2017-12-01T15:59:54Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This is not true, at least as far as the Senate is concerned. If at least some Democrats don’t vote for cloture, nothing “goes through.” Depends on what you’re talking about. The bill funding the government and averting a shutdown needs Dem votes. OTOH, the repeated attempts to kill the ACA were operating under reconciliation rules which only required 50 votes + Pence in the Senate. Same thing with the tax cut bill the Senate is currently considering. 50 + Pence is all that’s needed for judicial confirmations. Ditto every executive branch appointment requiring Senate confirmation. How much else has the GOP Congress even tried to do this year? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/82 "2017-12-01T16:03:07Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > And now this: > [Trump tells confidants that a government shutdown might be good for him](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-tells-confidants-that-a-government-shutdown-might-be-good-for-him/2017/11/30/e5328328-d5f5-11e7-a986-d0a9770d9a3e_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_shutdown-645pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.54f82dd98700): > > “President Trump has told confidants that a government shutdown could be good for him politically and is focusing on his hard-line immigration stance as a way to win back supporters unhappy with his outreach to Democrats this fall, according to people who have spoken with him recently.” How long until certain posters on this board switch their talking point from “the Shutdown is the Democrats fault” to “this is the best Shutdown ever”? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/83 "2017-12-01T16:08:51Z")
Anyhow, I’m trying to think of why the Dems would go along with even a temporary extension of funding without some major concessions in return. CHIP, DACA, maybe even the tax bill itself. Let’s see what Chuck can wangle out of the GOP here. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/84 "2017-12-01T16:11:42Z")
No doubt, if the GOp put forward a clean debt increase bill, it would pass. Trumps Wall should not be part of the debt bill. [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-23/trump-shutdown-threat-complicates-congress-s-debt-ceiling-plans](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-23/trump-shutdown-threat-complicates-congress-s-debt-ceiling-plans) Nor should the ACA: > **[In 2013, Schumer and Pelosi Decried the Government-Shutdown Tactic. Will They...](https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/schumer-and-pelosi-decried-government-shutdown-tactic-2013-will-they-now-use-it/)** > > Four years ago, Republican lawmakers leveraged the threat of a government shutdown to try and win a fight over health care. Republicans said they would not vote for a spending bill (or a debt-limit… Now, with a shutdown looming, Schumer and Pelosi find themselves boxed in. Democratic lawmakers such as Kamala Harris and Richard Durbin have vowed to oppose any spending bill that doesn’t include a legislative fix for DACA — which expires in March. In essence, they are threatening a shutdown in order to secure a win on immigration. And people think Harris would make a good Prez candidate. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/85 "2017-12-01T16:28:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No doubt, if the GOp put forward a clean debt increase bill, it would pass. > > Trumps Wall should not be part of the debt bill. > > [Trump Shutdown Threat Complicates Congress’s Debt Ceiling Plans - Bloomberg](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-23/trump-shutdown-threat-complicates-congress-s-debt-ceiling-plans) > > Nor should the ACA: > > [http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/454233/schumer-and-pelosi-decried-government-shutdown-tactic-2013-will-they-now-use-it](http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/454233/schumer-and-pelosi-decried-government-shutdown-tactic-2013-will-they-now-use-it) > > Now, with a shutdown looming, Schumer and Pelosi find themselves boxed in. Democratic lawmakers such as Kamala Harris and Richard Durbin have vowed to oppose any spending bill that doesn’t include a legislative fix for DACA — which expires in March. In essence, they are threatening a shutdown in order to secure a win on immigration. > And people think Harris would make a good Prez candidate. :rolleyes: First, you’re confusing the debt ceiling with the shutdown. Government funding runs out a week from tonight. We don’t hit the debt ceiling [until roughly March](https://www.wsj.com/articles/cbo-government-could-run-out-of-cash-by-spring-unless-debt-ceiling-is-raised-1512072228). And I’m not going to click on your links to see which of the two\* they \*were talking about. Looks like the first one may have been talking about both, from the URL itself. Second, how have Durbin and Harris boxed in Chuck and Nancy? They’re all on the same side here, they want to extract as much as possible in the way of concessions in return for keeping the government open. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/86 "2017-12-01T16:49:01Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > First, you’re confusing the debt ceiling with the shutdown. Government funding runs out a week from tonight. We don’t hit the debt ceiling [until roughly March](https://www.wsj.com/articles/cbo-government-could-run-out-of-cash-by-spring-unless-debt-ceiling-is-raised-1512072228). > > And I’m not going to click on your links to see which of the two\* they \*were talking about. Looks like the first one may have been talking about both, from the URL itself. > > Second, how have Durbin and Harris boxed in Chuck and Nancy? They’re all on the same side here, they want to extract as much as possible in the way of concessions in return for keeping the government open. No, I wasnt. There should be no “concessions” to keep the government open. It should be routine and free of poltics. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/87 "2017-12-01T16:51:01Z")
So the Republicans shouldn’t be adding anything to it then either? A clean bill? ---
**Author:** ![howye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/88 "2017-12-01T16:57:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, I wasnt. > There should be no “concessions” to keep the government open. It should be routine and free of poltics. And this should have applied when a Democrat was President. And it shouldn’t be an issue in the first place. Why is it when an R does something it is ok, but Dems never should? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/89 "2017-12-01T17:32:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No doubt, if the GOp put forward a clean debt increase bill, it would pass. > > Trumps Wall should not be part of the debt bill. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > First, you’re confusing the debt ceiling with the shutdown. Government funding runs out a week from tonight. We don’t hit the debt ceiling [until roughly March](https://www.wsj.com/articles/cbo-government-could-run-out-of-cash-by-spring-unless-debt-ceiling-is-raised-1512072228). > [@DrDeth](#): > > No, I wasnt. > There should be no “concessions” to keep the government open. It should be routine and free of poltics. Yeah, we’re all imagining that you were talking about the “debt increase bill” in post #84, while now in post #86, you’re talking about legislation to “keep the government open.” > [@](#): > > No, I wasnt. Straight out of the Argument Clinic. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/90 "2017-12-01T17:42:29Z")
[quote=“DrDeth, post:84, topic:803079”] > [@DrDeth](#): > > There should be no “concessions” to keep the government open. It should be routine and free of poltics. Yeah, and when we get to that universe of sweetness and light where the other guys listen to sweet reason and do the right thing without having their arms twisted, I’ll agree with you. IOW, if we were in the universe where the Republicans reauthorized CHIP without being pressured to, and paid for it by having a $1.485B tax cut instead of a $1.5B tax cut, and passed DACA because it’s the right thing to do for people who weren’t born here but were just kids when their parents moved them here, I’d be willing to give idealistic thoughts like that a listen. We’re not in that universe, are we? I think that universe is something like the 1337th alternate universe to the left. In this one, I want Chuck and Nancy to use every last bit of leverage as effectively as they can, to make the GOP do the things that the GOP should be doing as a matter of course. If you have a problem with that, well, bless your heart. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/91 "2017-12-01T17:52:39Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > So the Republicans shouldn’t be adding anything to it then either? A clean bill? Yes, a clean bill. Both sides are at fault, the GOP more so, of course. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/92 "2017-12-01T18:01:26Z")
Well then, bless your heart. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/93 "2017-12-01T18:36:49Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > How long until certain posters on this board switch their talking point from “the Shutdown is the Democrats fault” to “this is the best Shutdown ever”? Actually Trump & followers are already there - it’ll be the best Shutdown ever _because_ it’s something they can blame the Democrats for. They aren’t trying to make the country great, they are trying to gain and maintain political power. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/94 "2017-12-01T19:01:59Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Actually Trump & followers are already there - it’ll be the best Shutdown ever _because_ it’s something they can blame the Democrats for. They aren’t trying to make the country great, they are trying to gain and maintain political power. Although its going to be hard to blame the Democrats when you’ve got your Cheeto in chief telling everyone that he wants this shutdown. Once again Trump’s itchy twitter finger hampers his political goals. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/95 "2017-12-01T19:07:43Z")
Hey, when your politics is all about who you can piss on, rather than what policy goals you can achieve, keeping the government open isn’t important, but blaming its closure on the right people _is_. (ETA: Responding to **scr4**.) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/96 "2017-12-01T19:09:19Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Well, what about Trump’s statements that he WANTS a shutdown? I don’t know, what about it? > [@RTFirefly](#): > > Depends on what you’re talking about. > > The bill funding the government and averting a shutdown needs Dem votes. Yes, thank you. I was referring to: > [@Chisquirrel](#): > > … some sort of spending bill to keep the government running… but you are correct, they can do other things (e.g. reconciliation and nominations) without 60 votes. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > How much else has the GOP Congress even tried to do this year? [Counting it the way Obama did](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2014/05/09/four-pinocchios-for-obamas-claim-that-republicans-have-filibustered-about-500-pieces-of-legislation/), there have been [74 Obama-defined “filibusters” so far this year](https://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/reference/cloture_motions/clotureCounts.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/97 "2017-12-01T19:21:35Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Wrong again. I see a single line in an article. Nothing there, or anywhere else, that actually quotes anyone involved as some variation of “We’ll shut this shit down.” A Republican Senator asked, “Why in the hell didn’t we have this budget done and the funding done before the end of the fiscal year, back in September?” The answer is simple - September was one of the three months Congress was focused on trying to demolish the ACA. That we’re just NOW talking about a budget crisis - 3 months after the start of the fiscal year - because Democrats saved their bacon in September. At what point does the majority party take responsibility for being unable to do their jobs? And it’s reached this point because Trump threw a Twitter tantrum insulting Congressional leaders, complete with misrepresenting something they’re fighting for, that he also supports. This has been coming for months, and Republicans have been more concerned with tax breaks for donors than, you know, their jobs. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/98 "2017-12-01T19:25:08Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > That cite says nothing about Dems threatening to filibuster. … > [@Chisquirrel](#): > > I see a single line in an article. … Good, we’ve made some progress. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/99 "2017-12-01T19:27:54Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > [Counting it the way Obama did](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2014/05/09/four-pinocchios-for-obamas-claim-that-republicans-have-filibustered-about-500-pieces-of-legislation/), there have been [74 Obama-defined “filibusters” so far this year](https://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/reference/cloture_motions/clotureCounts.htm). Obama’s gone. Clinton’s not the President. Trump won, get over it. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079/100 "2017-12-01T19:29:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Good, we’ve made some progress. You’re cute. Still nothing from Schumer? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-government-shutdown/803079.md?page=6)