# Federal judge overturns Whitehouse ban on offshore drilling **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 22, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156 "2010-06-22T20:18:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/21 "2010-06-22T21:59:59Z")
By what authority does Obama order a stop to a private, legal activity? Also, by what authority can this court review his decision? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/22 "2010-06-22T22:05:52Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > The briefing by the Federal judge in the case states that the cause of the explosion on the Horizon rig is not fully known…it is his opinion that this is not criteria for stopping all deepwater drilling. > > In my analogy, I asked if a plane crashes and the cause is undetermined should all air traffic stopped. You state that it should be stopped if it is determined that there is something fundamentally wrong with all models of the aircraft. > > So can I interpret that to mean, that you would only recommend the banning of deepwater drilling if it is determined that there is something fundamentally wrong with the process similarly used? There have been numerous deepwater wells drilled in the gulf of Mexico for decades, without incident. What makes you think that all others being done are similar to the Horizon well and not similar to the hundreds drilled safely previously? Because BP drilled with the riskiest and cheapest well system possible. They cut corners . The other oil companies in front of congress last week that they did not approve of the wells BP drilled. Then the guys on the rig said BP pushed them to take shortcuts they did not want to do. Bp is still drilling a lot of wells. I would think the judge would halt all drilling until safety inspections were made at a minimum. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/23 "2010-06-22T22:09:06Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > Not one single company wants to go bankrupt because of a failure like the one that occured. Not one of them wants to cut any corners like BP? What are they, communists? Of course they want to cut corners and maximize profit. That’s why they’ll be looking at us all doe eyed in a couple of years and telling us it mysteriously happened _again_. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/24 "2010-06-22T22:21:11Z")
Talking about plane crashes or 9/11 isn’t a good analogy. If, when a 747 goes down, it continues to spew jet fuel over a couple thousand square miles for months with absolutely no way to stop it, then yes, that would be an appropriate analogy. It’s obvious that NO ONE knows how to quickly and effectively stop a deepwater oil well from gushing. Until they do, I say shut 'em down. Give it another 3 or 4 wells like Horizon and the Gulf of Mexico will become a watery desert. Dead. Along with every waterfront industry in at least 5 states, from fishing to tourism. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/25 "2010-06-22T22:25:34Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Not one of them wants to cut any corners like BP? What are they, communists? Of course they want to cut corners and maximize profit. That’s why they’ll be looking at us all doe eyed in a couple of years and telling us it mysteriously happened _again_. And, more importantly, telling us with an absolutely straight face: _“nobody could have predicted this”_ Companies will take extraordinary risks if it could lead to increased profit. Especially if the risk is going to be primarily assumed by others. So a company goes bankrupt. Big hairy deal. Those responsible for the company with either have golden parachutes and millions in the bank, or will simply go and work for another company. Those lower down on the corporate ladder may suffer, but they are not the ones making the high risk decisions. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/26 "2010-06-22T22:33:35Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > There have been numerous deepwater wells drilled in the gulf of Mexico for decades, without incident. What makes you think that all others being done are similar to the Horizon well and not similar to the hundreds drilled safely previously? Deepwater drilling below 5000ft. was performed for the first time in the late 90’s, mostly as an experiment to see if it was even feasible. The process has only been economically viable for the past few years, and as such there’s been a notable increase in drilling since 2007. Deepwater drilling required the development of new technology that could withstand the heat and pressure of drilling some 3-4 miles into the earth’s crust–and this after diving a mile deep into the ocean. The moratorium was on 33 wells that are being drilled _currently_ and any future planned wells. It would not affect current oil production from the Gulf ([there are ~3500 platforms currently operating in the gulf](http://www.cccarto.com/gulf_platforms.html)–bet you didn’t know that either), and it literally takes a decade to get a new deep-water well on-line. I’m not necessarily advocating we stop permanently–despite the wishes of environmentalists, deep-water drilling will be a growing part of our energy future. But really, a delay of six months on a relative handful of 10-year timeline projects that use a technology still in it’s infancy doesn’t seem that unreasonable to me. IMO the judge acted with undue haste here. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/27 "2010-06-22T22:36:58Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > So if a 727 crashes in Ames, Iowa and the airline, Boeing, the FAA and other agencies cannot determine the cause of the crash, should all US air traffic be stopped? > [@Wilbo523](#): > > So your criteria for grounding planes would have been the damage that resulted from a single crash, not the understanding of the **inherent risk and safety measures of operating aircraft**. Interesting logic. My bolding. Right now we are seeing that if something goes wrong on one of these wells, we may not be able to stop it for months, or even years. That means that the **inherent risk** is huge. Right now all the plans and designs have only really been successfully tested in shallow water. To use your analogy, it would be like if after a plane crash we learned that all the training and safety regulations in place for 727s were based on single engine prop planes. If that were the case, then yes, I would support banning all flights of planes larger than single engine prop planes. Bottom line the regulatory agencies have been asleep at the wheel for years and the companies have taken advantage of that to move out farther and deeper without proving they have adequate safeguards. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/28 "2010-06-22T23:00:42Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > By what authority does Obama order a stop to a private, legal activity? I would assume Congress passed a law that created a regulatory agency under the legislative branch. > [@](#): > > Also, by what authority can this court review his decision? I would assume that legislation has some limitations, and the judge felt Obama had gone beyond one or more of them. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/29 "2010-06-22T23:02:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I would assume that legislation has some limitations, and the judge felt Obama had gone beyond one or more of them. Or the fact that the judge has [massive investments](http://www.judicialwatch.org/jfd/Feldman_Martin_L_C/2008.pdf) (warning: PDF!) in the oil industry…including Transocean and Halliburton and about a dozen drilling and oil companies, offshore and on. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/30 "2010-06-22T23:59:33Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Or the fact that the judge has [massive investments](http://www.judicialwatch.org/jfd/Feldman_Martin_L_C/2008.pdf) (warning: PDF!) in the oil industry…including Transocean and Halliburton and about a dozen drilling and oil companies, offshore and on. Could be, but I would once again assume that he didn’t put that in his decision, and that he found some justification in the limits set on the administration by the legislation itself. But also, this is a low level ruling. I wouldn’t put too much weight in it, without really going thru the legal arguments with several of our resident attorneys. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/31 "2010-06-23T02:11:16Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Because BP drilled with the riskiest and cheapest well system possible. They cut corners . The other oil companies in front of congress last week that they did not approve of the wells BP drilled. Then the guys on the rig said BP pushed them to take shortcuts they did not want to do. Bp is still drilling a lot of wells. I would think the judge would halt all drilling until safety inspections were made at a minimum. Those were already made, in late April and early May. It was well reported in the industry press that in the 2-3 weeks immediately following the Deepwater Horizon sinking, MMS inspectors systematically visited every deepwater rig drilling in the Gulf. So far as I know, none were shut down by failing those inspections. Just pointing that out; not taking any particular side on this issue. . ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/32 "2010-06-23T02:28:33Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Or the fact that the judge has [massive investments](http://www.judicialwatch.org/jfd/Feldman_Martin_L_C/2008.pdf) (warning: PDF!) in the oil industry…including Transocean and Halliburton and about a dozen drilling and oil companies, offshore and on. Is this sarcastic, or am I missing something? The code next to Transocean, for example, is ‘A’ – meaning $1000 or less. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/33 "2010-06-23T03:22:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Is this sarcastic, or am I missing something? The code next to Transocean, for example, is ‘A’ – meaning $1000 or less. That refers to the income derived from the investment, not its value. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/34 "2010-06-23T14:09:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Could be, but I would once again assume that he didn’t put that in his decision, and that he found some justification in the limits set on the administration by the legislation itself. Why would you assume this? ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/35 "2010-06-23T15:48:33Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Further, I believe only 33 rigs were affected by this moratorium. There are hundreds (thousands?) such rigs out there so this is not a blanket, shut down the oil industry thing. There is a huge difference between an offshore rig and an onshore rig. When you are talking hundreds and thousands of rigs, you are talking about the onshore rigs. For the companies in the deepwater industry, this is effectively a shutting down of the industry thing. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/36 "2010-06-23T15:52:34Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > I know I sure don’t want my tax dollars going to bail out Louisiana etc if they go ahead and let companies resume drilling willy nily, and then blow _another_ couple hundred million barrels of crude into the gulf when _another_ well goes wild. Two things, please cite a case of a couple hundred millions barrels of crude spilling into the gulf. Second, have any tax dollars gone toward cleaning up the current spill? Any indication that they will? ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/37 "2010-06-23T15:57:05Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Companies will take extraordinary risks if it could lead to increased profit. Especially if the risk is going to be primarily assumed by others. So a company goes bankrupt. Big hairy deal. Those responsible for the company with either have golden parachutes and millions in the bank, or will simply go and work for another company. Those lower down on the corporate ladder may suffer, but they are not the ones making the high risk decisions. You do realize that a golden parachute is not going to do a lot of good if the company goes bankrupt, right? ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/38 "2010-06-23T16:16:09Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > Deepwater drilling below 5000ft. was performed for the first time in the late 90’s, mostly as an experiment to see if it was even feasible. The process has only been economically viable for the past few years, and as such there’s been a notable increase in drilling since 2007. Deepwater drilling required the development of new technology that could withstand the heat and pressure of drilling some 3-4 miles into the earth’s crust–and this after diving a mile deep into the ocean. > > The moratorium was on 33 wells that are being drilled _currently_ and any future planned wells. It would not affect current oil production from the Gulf ([there are ~3500 platforms currently operating in the gulf](http://www.cccarto.com/gulf_platforms.html)–bet you didn’t know that either), and it literally takes a decade to get a new deep-water well on-line. > > I’m not necessarily advocating we stop permanently–despite the wishes of environmentalists, deep-water drilling will be a growing part of our energy future. But really, a delay of six months on a relative handful of 10-year timeline projects that use a technology still in it’s infancy doesn’t seem that unreasonable to me. IMO the judge acted with undue haste here. The point, however, is that a halt on deepwater drilling will have a significant impact on employment in Louisiana and other places as well as make a significant difference in the new production of domestic oil. Approximately 1/3rd of our oil comes from offshore with the majority of that being in water depths below 500 feet. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/39 "2010-06-23T16:18:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Could be, but I would once again assume that he didn’t put that in his decision, and that he found some justification in the limits set on the administration by the legislation itself. At the very least, he should’ve recused himself to avoid any suggestion of impropriety. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/40 "2010-06-23T16:30:55Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > There is a huge difference between an offshore rig and an onshore rig. When you are talking hundreds and thousands of rigs, you are talking about the onshore rigs. For the companies in the deepwater industry, this is effectively a shutting down of the industry thing. Err…nope. [NOAA map of the 3,858 oil and gas platforms extant in the Gulf of Mexico in 2006](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Gulf_Coast_Platforms.jpg) By my math the 33 rigs represent 0.85% of that total. Hardly the doom of an industry. ETA: Don’t know if this is true but this article states these were exploratory wells as well so again, not shutting down an industry. > [@](#): > > Obama’s interior department imposed the moratorium last month in the wake of the BP disaster, halting approval of any new permits for deepwater projects and suspending drilling on 33 exploratory wells. > > SOURCE: [Judge who overturned drilling bans had shares in the oil industry | Oil | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jun/23/judge-drilling-ban-shares-oil) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156.md?page=3)