# Federal judge overturns Whitehouse ban on offshore drilling **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 22, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156 "2010-06-22T20:18:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/61 "2010-06-23T22:22:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s not pointless that a judge intervened given the length of time involved. This can be resolved in days/weeks and not 6 months. That was just a number somebody pulled out of their ass. Certainly six months was just an arbitrary number. I highly doubt any of this is resolved in days or weeks though. No company is going to make the investment required to drill an offshore well when there is incredible uncertainty in the business environment, so until there is clarity on exactly what will be allowed this judgment means very little in terms of changes to Gulf activity. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/62 "2010-06-23T22:55:56Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Transocean was not his only investment in oil: > > Feldman’s other interests included Ocean Energy, Quicksilver Resources, Prospect Energy, Peabody Energy, Pengrowth Energy Trust, Atlas Energy Resources, and Parker Drilling. > > SOURCE: [http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...ban-shares-oil](http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...ban-shares-oil) > > How much investment does it have to be before it matters? Ocean Energy doesn’t even exist anymore. They merged with Devon years ago, and Devon just sold all of their offshore assets. Quicksilver is onshore in resource plays in the U.S. and Canada. Prospect Energy is actually a New York mezzanine lender that makes loans to companies in an assortment of random industries (coal, oil & gas, service, alternative, and many other random things); I don’t believe they do anything offshore. Peabody Energy is a coal company. Pengrowth is a Canadian royalty trust with assets primarily in Canada. Atlas is an onshore resource play oil and gas company and also a midstream company. Parker does actually do work in the Gulf of Mexico, but none of it is deepwater; its all in shallow state waters. Sounds like the writer of the article doesn’t know shit about the industry as none of those investments would even have any affect from this. Actually I take that back, they would all be negatively affected by his ruling since a lack of offshore production of oil and gas would not affect any of their production but would increase the prices of oil and gas and coal. Seems like he actually ruled against his interests. You were saying? Further, the guy’s investments are in banking, energy, mortgages, government securities, private equity companies, and an assortment of other random investments. Do you want to make it some sort of requirement that judges can’t invest their money in equities or something? He has no investments that would call into account his ability to be impartial. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/63 "2010-06-23T23:56:37Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > I’m not making an obscure distinction here. There is a difference between a platform and a drilling rig. The moratorium affects drilling rigs and obviously not platforms. You’ll need to educate me then on the differences (I don’t doubt there are, I just do not know) and why 33 rigs having a 6 month halt trumps 3,800 platforms currently in operation. > [@](#): > > Further, no cite needed to state that the drilling rigs are for exploratory drilling. There’s not a whole lot of development drilling going on in the deepwater. It’s nearly a given that they are exploratory in nature. I don’t even understand what point you are trying to make by stating that they are exploratory. What possible relevance does that have on anything? You said in an earlier post: _“The point, however, is that a halt on deepwater drilling will have a significant impact on employment in Louisiana and other places as well as make a significant difference in the new production of domestic oil. Approximately 1/3rd of our oil comes from offshore with the majority of that being in water depths below 500 feet.”_ So, if they are exploratory wells then they are not in production so how do we have to worry about the production of new oil? And to the significant impact on employment as noted the 33 rigs represent less than 1% of oil mining activity in the Gulf currently. Further, we have not halted everything: > [@](#): > > The records also indicate that since the April 20 explosion on the rig, federal regulators have granted at least 19 environmental waivers for gulf drilling projects and at least 17 drilling permits, most of which were for types of work like that on the Deepwater Horizon shortly before it exploded, pouring a ceaseless current of oil into the Gulf of Mexico. > > SOURCE: [http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/24/us/24moratorium.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/24/us/24moratorium.html) > [@](#): > > The rigs make a difference because, as I said, you need constant drilling to offset the declines in the existing production. Without new drilling you will see a drop off in production. New production in the Gulf of Mexico comes on at a high rate and then rapidly declines. Without drilling, we will see a noticeable difference in production. Further, the other big part is that a non-insignificant number of jobs will be affected. Offshore drilling is an industry of itself; clearly those jobs will no longer be needed when there is no drilling. Someone noted earlier it takes 10 years to bring a new oil field online in the Gulf. Six months is hardly dramatic, sky is falling stuff. I just noted the US is still handing out permits and waivers. Please explain your alarmism over this in light of that information. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/64 "2010-06-24T00:00:14Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > Further, the guy’s investments are in banking, energy, mortgages, government securities, private equity companies, and an assortment of other random investments. Do you want to make it some sort of requirement that judges can’t invest their money in equities or something? He has no investments that would call into account his ability to be impartial. Of course judges can invest in whatever they like. If a case comes before them and they have an investment in one party that is a conflict of interest and they should recuse themselves. Happens all the time, not a big deal. He had investments in Transocean which is certainly at the center of this. Appearances are important particularly in a charged atmosphere like this one. Surely you understand that. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/65 "2010-06-24T02:28:19Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Of course judges can invest in whatever they like. If a case comes before them and they have an investment in one party that is a conflict of interest and they should recuse themselves. Happens all the time, not a big deal. > > He had investments in Transocean which is certainly at the center of this. > > Appearances are important particularly in a charged atmosphere like this one. Surely you understand that. I believe he had investments in 5 oil companies ands related businesses. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/66 "2010-06-24T03:05:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Is this sarcastic, or am I missing something? The code next to Transocean, for example, is ‘A’ – meaning $1000 or less. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > That is the income gain code. The value code is J, $15,000 or less. Correct. And an investment of $15,000 or less in what appears to be a diversified portfolio is hardly a “massive investment.” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/67 "2010-06-24T03:21:05Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Correct. And an investment of $15,000 or less in what appears to be a diversified portfolio is hardly a “massive investment.” It is still grounds for an ethical judge to recuse himself. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/68 "2010-06-24T03:36:24Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > Certainly six months was just an arbitrary number. I highly doubt any of this is resolved in days or weeks though. No company is going to make the investment required to drill an offshore well when there is incredible uncertainty in the business environment, so until there is clarity on exactly what will be allowed this judgment means very little in terms of changes to Gulf activity. The events of the BP accident do not require a lot of investigation to establish that it was human error that caused it. It would be nothing to establish a protocol involving on-sight government inspectors to verify that procedures are followed. We are collectively going down the tubes as a nation and cannot afford to stand down an industry because a few people blatantly disregarded every safety measure available. We didn’t ground aircraft because 2 pilots did the exact opposite of what they were suppose to do (Buffalo crash) and brought a plane down. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/69 "2010-06-24T03:57:14Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The events of the BP accident do not require a lot of investigation to establish that it was human error that caused it. You say that like it’s already established fact. If that’s the case, then no investigation is needed at all. If not, well facts can be hard to find when the operators are dead, and the rig is a burned out mass under a mile of water. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/70 "2010-06-24T04:00:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The events of the BP accident do not require a lot of investigation to establish that it was human error that caused it. It would be nothing to establish a protocol involving on-sight government inspectors to verify that procedures are followed. > > We are collectively going down the tubes as a nation and cannot afford to stand down an industry because a few people blatantly disregarded every safety measure available. We didn’t ground aircraft because 2 pilots did the exact opposite of what they were suppose to do (Buffalo crash) and brought a plane down. I agree with you that on-sight inspectors would probably be the best course of action, and I agree with your second paragraph entirely. I do think we still need to finish the investigation before I am willing to say it was entirely human error although I personally do believe it was highly likely human error from a company that did not emphasize proper safety protocol. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/71 "2010-06-24T04:08:10Z")
That is the reason drilling was shut down; how many other rigs are being run with the same corporate attitude toward safety? It is obvious the FAA is far stricter on safety than the MMS is, so the commercial airline analogy falls a little flat. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/72 "2010-06-24T04:10:13Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Of course judges can invest in whatever they like. If a case comes before them and they have an investment in one party that is a conflict of interest and they should recuse themselves. Happens all the time, not a big deal. > > He had investments in Transocean which is certainly at the center of this. > > Appearances are important particularly in a charged atmosphere like this one. Surely you understand that. I understand what you are saying and also agree that if a judge has a conflict of interest then they should recuse them self. I don’t think this judge had any conflict based on the investments in that exhibit. I think that what we have here are people looking to twist anything into a conflict. I mean seriously, the list in that article was absurd. Investing in a coal company, a finance company, a few onshore oil and gas companies, and a shallow water barge rig company doesn’t give the guy any incentive to overturn a deepwater drilling moratorium. Like I said earlier, if anything he has an incentive to keep the moratorium in place indefinitely based on those investments. The media is just so bad at reporting that they are confusing the general public. The appearance of a bias are a result of shoddy reporting in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/73 "2010-06-24T04:20:24Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > That is the reason drilling was shut down; how many other rigs are being run with the same corporate attitude toward safety? It is obvious the FAA is far stricter on safety than the MMS is, so the commercial airline analogy falls a little flat. How many planes have crashed do to human error versus drilling rigs? I think the stakes are higher with a deep water well given the current outcome but I also think the industry knows how to do it correctly and can work with government agencies on what it will take to ensure it gets done correctly. As I’ve stated in other posts, the cost of a couple of on-site inspectors is almost invisible to the cost of drilling. corporate attitudes can be nullified by proper inspections. When you consider that the garage I built required pre-inspection of the foundation trenches and post inspection of the finished unit it just seems logical that this concept be applied that to oil wells (I’m sure it’s done on some level now). ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/74 "2010-06-24T04:25:02Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How many planes have crashed do to human error versus drilling rigs? If you normalize the statistics with mean operating hours of planes versus drilling rigs, my money is on drilling rigs. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/75 "2010-06-24T04:33:09Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > If you normalize the statistics with mean operating hours of planes versus drilling rigs, my money is on drilling rigs. I dunno, lots of airplanes flying at any given time. Interesting sidetrack to ponder. Given the argument over safety issues between BP and the other company officials involved I’m confident that the industry knows what is going on. Let the industry draw up a checklist of equipment and procedures and then hand them a bill for $200K to cover the cost of government babysitters for each well. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/76 "2010-06-24T04:46:16Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Transocean was not his only investment in oil: > > How much investment does it have to be before it matters? My quibble was with the characterization that his investments are"massive." Now you ask about “matters,” which I think is probably a lower number. Given a federal judge’s salary and salary prospects, I’ll (somewhat arbitrarily) say that $60,000 in an industry is “massive.” ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/77 "2010-06-24T06:30:14Z")
**Bricker** and **Rand** , I understand your points about the use of _massive_. It’s in the eye of the beholder, I suspect. If a teacher had received a $15,000 bribe, that would have been “massive.” BTW, is there evidence that the judge was aware of these particular investments before his rulings? I didn’t check to see if these were mutual funds or something of that nature. (I’m not very knowledgeable of these things. All of my money is in…uh…textiles…yeh, you know…clothes.) ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/78 "2010-06-24T06:36:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How many planes have crashed do to human error versus drilling rigs? > > I think the stakes are higher with a deep water well given the current outcome but I also think the industry knows how to do it correctly and can work with government agencies on what it will take to ensure it gets done correctly. Except we don’t have the right regulations in place for the inspectors to enforce. We need to have redundant blow-out presenters, a relief well drilled at the same time as the primary well, and probably some other shit that they do in civilized countries that don’t have conservatives sucking the dicks of big business. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/79 "2010-06-24T06:38:45Z")
Ax to the airplane analogy, what is the total cost/damages associated with airplane crashes over the last 10 years vs this accident? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2010, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156/80 "2010-06-24T10:27:15Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Except we don’t have the right regulations in place for the inspectors to enforce. We need to have redundant blow-out presenters, a relief well drilled at the same time as the primary well, and probably some other shit that they do in civilized countries that don’t have conservatives sucking the dicks of big business. And we already know from the congressional investigation that these other companies have the same non-existent Disaster ‘Plan’ involving the same non-existent walruses and the same still-dead wildlife expert. Of course shutting them down is the prudent thing to do. Their fault for also having a cavalier safety attitude. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-overturns-whitehouse-ban-on-offshore-drilling/544156.md?page=5)