# Federal judge rules National Day of Prayer to be unconstitutional **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 16, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364 "2010-04-16T16:50:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/1 "2010-04-16T16:50:00Z")
> [@](#): > > MADISON, Wis. — A federal judge in Wisconsin ruled the National Day of Prayer unconstitutional Thursday, saying the day amounts to a call for religious action. > > U.S. District Judge Barbara Crabb wrote that the government can no more enact laws supporting a day of prayer than it can encourage citizens to fast during Ramadan, attend a synagogue or practice magic. The practice is not officially banned yet, pending appeals, and Obama has said he intends to still issue the proclamation for this year. So, is this judge right? I’m not really sure. The government asking people to pray seems to go over the line (and the proclamations have explicitly been “calls” to prayer, not just recognition of them, or of religion as a practice, as The Obama administration contends), but I think if it was presented more as a day just to honor the role of religion (especiality the diversity and the freedom of such) in the US it would be ok. Is this ruling going to stand or get smacked down? I think it’s at least interesting that this is an issue where religious conservatives have none other than Barack Obama himself representing their side of the battle. ---
**Author:** ![whorfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@whorfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whorfin)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/2 "2010-04-16T17:01:05Z")
Technically, it’s “federal judge rules that statute that compels president to proclaim national day of prayer is unconstitutional.” > **[Freedomon From Religion Center v. Obama | PDF](https://www.scribd.com/doc/29993102/Freedomon-From-Religion-Center-v-Obama)** > > Scribd is the source for 300M+ user uploaded documents and specialty resources. The court itself, on the last page of the opinion, says > [@](#): > > the _only_ issue decided in this case is that the federal government may not endorse prayer in a statute as it has in [the law in question] That seems clear on its face even to a non-lawyer (and IANAL)—all it’s ruling to be unconstitutional is a law that says the president MUST declare a national day of prayer–creating a religious event under federal law. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/3 "2010-04-16T17:19:15Z")
Well-written opinion. Before I read it, I thought it was a deft attempt at ignoring Marsh. Having read it, I see I was wrong. It makes a good case, and I think it’s right on the law. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/4 "2010-04-16T17:24:40Z")
> [@whorfin](#): > > Technically, it’s “federal judge rules that statute that compels president to proclaim national day of prayer is unconstitutional.” > > [Freedomon From Religion Center v. Obama | PDF](http://www.scribd.com/doc/29993102/Freedomon-From-Religion-Center-v-Obama) > > The court itself, on the last page of the opinion, says > > That seems clear on its face even to a non-lawyer (and IANAL)—all it’s ruling to be unconstitutional is a law that says the president MUST declare a national day of prayer–creating a religious event under federal law. Thanks for the clarification. I now think that judge is right on the law, but that it almost doesn’t matter because Presidents will keep doing it voluntarily (as Obama intends to do). ---
**Author:** ![whorfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@whorfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whorfin)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/5 "2010-04-16T17:27:40Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Thanks for the clarification. I now think that judge is right on the law, but that it almost doesn’t matter because Presidents will keep doing it voluntarily (as Obama intends to do). Exactly. It’s a well-written and thoughtful opinon, that decides a relatively narrow question–whether congress can enshrine a national day of prayer in a statute. It doesn’t stop the president from choosing to make such a proclamation, or from discussing his own faith, and in doing so, encouraging others to pray. However, as already seems clear from looking at the news reports, the shouting over “national day of prayer declared unconstitutional” will overwhelm all that. Imagine what someone like Glenn Beck is going to say. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/6 "2010-04-16T17:39:39Z")
The funny thing is, they won’t be able to blame Obama because he’s representing their own side. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/7 "2010-04-16T17:45:53Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The funny thing is, they won’t be able to blame Obama because he’s representing their own side. Sure they will. Obama is in the midst of appointing droves of activist judges, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/8 "2010-04-16T17:50:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The funny thing is, they won’t be able to blame Obama because he’s representing their own side. Oh believe me, they will, and they already are. Far be it from the Obama haters to let anything as inconsequential as facts or logic get in the way of their hate. People on my Facebook page are going NUTS, saying Obama forced Georgetown and Notre Dame to cover their crosses, and now he’s cancelled the national day of prayer (whatever the fuck that is, anyway.) I keep pointing them to the book of Matthew, chapter 6, verses 5 and 6, but, strangely, they continue their outrage without responding to that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/9 "2010-04-16T17:54:48Z")
Have you pointed out to them that Obama is the party _defending_ the statute, and that he has, in fact, declared an intention NOT to cancel it? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/10 "2010-04-16T18:00:22Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I keep pointing them to the book of Matthew, chapter 6, verses 5 and 6, but, strangely, they continue their outrage without responding to that. Well, on their behalf, I will respond. Matt 6:5-6 says: > [@](#): > > When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. > > "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. Their position may be: the National Day of Prayer should encourage people to pray. it does not encourage people to pray publicly, even though it publicly encourages people to pray. Here is an illustration. The President says: “My fellow Americans. In accord with federal law, I am proclaiming today to be National Prayer Day. I urge you all to pray. And remember, when you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites – you know, the ones that stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. No, I urge you to go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. Thank you, and good night.” Do you follow the distinction now? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/11 "2010-04-16T18:18:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Here is an illustration. The President says: “My fellow Americans. In accord with federal law, I am proclaiming today to be National Prayer Day. I urge you all to pray. And remember, when you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites – you know, the ones that stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. No, I urge you to go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. Thank you, and good night.” > > Do you follow the distinction now? If that’s how it went, then sure. But you know as well as I do that that’s _not_ how it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/12 "2010-04-16T18:22:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Have you pointed out to them that Obama is the party _defending_ the statute, and that he has, in fact, declared an intention NOT to cancel it? Yeah, here’s the response from ONE person: > [@](#): > > Perfect example of the left and the right playing us all! That’s why I don’t trust either party anymore(and believe me I was Conservative). The govt takeover has already begun anyways so do we really think that things will get any better when or if the Repubs get into office as well!!! Glad we still have National Prayer Day but saddens me that we(… See Moreand I say that for people of ALL religions) can’t get an offical ceremony, when the argument is still there of Muslims being allowed to pray at the capitol. The response from the other 20 people who participated in the freakout: > [@crickets](#): > > ::chirp:: ::chirp:: This Obama hate is not rational. People are foaming at the mouth about him. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/13 "2010-04-16T18:28:44Z")
Oh, here’s a response from one of the people who originally posted that crap: > [@](#): > > For one I just did what the status said…copy and paste. He’s still trying to take away our freedoms. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/14 "2010-04-16T19:10:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Have you pointed out to them that Obama is the party _defending_ the statute, and that he has, in fact, declared an intention NOT to cancel it? Do you honestly think they give a shit? These are the same, after all, who can’t decide whether he’s Muslim, Communist, Fascist or all of the above. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/15 "2010-04-16T19:50:14Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Oh, here’s a response from one of the people who originally posted that crap: Shorter Facebook Wingnut: “All I do is repeat whatever crazy thought some other crazy Facebook wingnut puts up on his wall.” Which is pretty much what I suspected all along. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/16 "2010-04-16T19:51:23Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Do you honestly think they give a shit? These are the same, after all, who can’t decide whether he’s Muslim, Communist, Fascist or all of the above. They’re the same people who claimed he was a Muslim while simultaneously beating him over the head with his Christian minister and seeing absolutely no problem or contradiction. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/17 "2010-04-16T21:33:11Z")
I love the idea that the “government take over” is happening as evidenced by the fact that a judge issued a ruling limiting the power of the government. I know we are not supposed to actually say out loud that these people are morons, but why do they have to continue to dare us to say it? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/18 "2010-04-16T22:29:30Z")
I disagree with Obama on this. I don’t think he’s trying to win converts from the right, as he’s genuinely Christian. I think it’s a honest attempt at doing something he feels is good. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/19 "2010-04-17T12:56:14Z")
Saw this on the facebook: > [@](#): > > President Obama has decided that there will no longer be a “National Day of Prayer” held in May. He doesn’t want to offend anybody. Where was his concern about offending Christians last January when he allowed the Muslims to hold a day of prayer on the capitol grounds. As a Christian American “I am offended.” if you ag…ree… copy and paste no matter what religion you are, this country was built on Freedom!! Smackdown had ensued by the time I read it though. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364/20 "2010-04-17T17:00:01Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Smackdown had ensued by the time I read it though. That’s one good thing about Facebook. It gives members a forum to smack down some of the crazy. If one of your friends posts some crazy wignut crap, you can respond with some facts. It won’t cure the crazy, but it helps prevent it from spreading. In the olden days, the crazy went completely unchecked, via chain-mail emails. Much harder to combat those. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judge-rules-national-day-of-prayer-to-be-unconstitutional/536364.md?page=2)