# Federal judge's husband and mother murdered, possibly by white supremacists **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 4, 2005, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judges-husband-and-mother-murdered-possibly-by-white-supremacists/292861 "2005-03-04T04:12:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judges-husband-and-mother-murdered-possibly-by-white-supremacists/292861/21 "2005-03-14T03:08:18Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > Right, and if a church of a black congregation happens to burn, got to be the work of white racists. > > Yes, you are missing something. In the interests of not running this one completely off-track I’ve opened up a new thread in GD so we can debate this point: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5943492#post5943492](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5943492#post5943492) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judges-husband-and-mother-murdered-possibly-by-white-supremacists/292861/22 "2005-03-14T03:34:01Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > Yeah, doggone-it… but all was not lost. As the original theme of this thread indicates, the Left was not to be denied the opportunity to raise the specter of white racists running amok, threatening the peace and tranquillity of the beautiful mosaic of contemporary American society. Now that you mention it, after the murders but before the case was solved, I heard a lawyer for the Southern Poverty Law Center (Hatewatch Project) interviewed on the radio. He had some interesting things to say: Hate groups, while they might not be “running amok,” actually have been somewhat on the rise in America since 9/11/01, capitalizing on the inevitable xenophobia. Also, they seem to have shifted their focus – from blacks to Jews (as being, you know, the string-pullers behind all the bad stuff). Now, from the radio journalist’s point of view, the interview was based on the Lefkow murders as a “news hook” – because the police were initially looking at white supremacists as the likeliest suspects, for reasons explained in the OP. It turns out that was a dead end – but where’s the harm in this news coverage? What the lawyer had to say was relevant, important and interesting. If the whole thing unfairly tarnishes the reputations of racists like Hale – I find it hard to feel sorry for them. They’re always talking about hatred and violence, sometimes even about revolution; they have only themselves to blame if somebody takes them seriously. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judges-husband-and-mother-murdered-possibly-by-white-supremacists/292861/23 "2005-03-14T03:39:27Z")
And BTW, **Razorsharp** – are you suggesting you’ve got something **against** “the beautiful mosaic of contemporary American society”? If so, please tell us more. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judges-husband-and-mother-murdered-possibly-by-white-supremacists/292861/24 "2005-03-14T03:45:31Z")
And do you have an alternative theory about who was behind those church-burnings? I presume you’re talking about the wave of mysterious fires in black churches throughout the South in 1995 and '96 – [http://gbgm-umc.org/advance/Church-Burnings/bguide.html[/ur]](http://gbgm-umc.org/advance/Church-Burnings/bguide.html%5B/ur%5D). Which were not actually blamed on hate **groups,** but were blamed on white racists. According to the _Washington Post,_ – [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/churches/churches.htm:](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/churches/churches.htm:) > [@](#): > > The people burning down black churches in the South are generally white, male and young, usually economically marginalized or poorly educated, frequently drunk or high on drugs, rarely affiliated with hate groups, but often deeply driven by racism, according to investigators and a review of those arrested or convicted in the burnings. > > Little evidence has emerged to suggest a national or regional conspiracy, according to investigators. But they point to a climate of underlying racism that encourages the arsonists to strike at African American churches. What, IYO, is wrong with this picture? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judges-husband-and-mother-murdered-possibly-by-white-supremacists/292861/25 "2005-03-14T03:47:29Z")
Sorry, flubbed the link to the _Washington Post_ story – [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/churches/churches.htm](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/churches/churches.htm). The point being, these arsons were no blamed on hate **groups,** but they were blamed on white racists. You have a different opinion? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judges-husband-and-mother-murdered-possibly-by-white-supremacists/292861/26 "2005-03-14T05:09:44Z")
Weren’t a few of the black church arsons found to be done by a young white Satanist guy & his stripper girlfriend, both of whom I think are now in prison in Kentucky? I think a small number of the arsons were found to be inside jobs by disgruntled members or staff. To the point, my God, of course the white racists around Hale were the natural suspects of the Judge Leffdow family murders! And the black church burnings did seem, in timing & targeting, to be conspiratorial & racist, tho the motives turned out to be mixed & the timing perhaps more copycat than conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judges-husband-and-mother-murdered-possibly-by-white-supremacists/292861/27 "2005-03-14T05:23:33Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Weren’t a few of the black church arsons found to be done by a young white Satanist guy & his stripper girlfriend, both of whom I think are now in prison in Kentucky? > > I think a small number of the arsons were found to be inside jobs by disgruntled members or staff. Interesting. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judges-husband-and-mother-murdered-possibly-by-white-supremacists/292861/28 "2005-03-14T23:21:00Z")
> [@sleeping](#): > > [Map of Hate Groups in US](http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp) The little KKK masks on that map are almost cute, which is just plain disturbing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-judges-husband-and-mother-murdered-possibly-by-white-supremacists/292861.md?page=1)