# Federal Pay Continues Rapid Ascent - Is this a problem? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 9, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-pay-continues-rapid-ascent-is-this-a-problem/509448 "2009-09-09T18:21:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-pay-continues-rapid-ascent-is-this-a-problem/509448/41 "2009-09-12T05:43:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Well, you said: > the feds need janitors and unskilled labor too Actually most federal buildings seem to be cleaned by outside janitorial companies. I don’t know that there is very much unskilled labor in government (perhaps the military recruits). > [@](#): > > Quote: > federal jobs tend to go to more educated and/or qualified people. > Cite, please? Especially one that shows that this trend has increased since 2000. Are you trying to tell me that a Republican President and a Republican congress has been raising the salaries of the beaurocracy? Why? It has nothing to do with their own pay or the pay of any of their employees (the legislative branch budget is a different line item on the budget and is treated entirely differently). Just a WAG but perhaps the increase in the gap was the result of more outsourcing of the lower paid jobs in the government. The federal government has been outsourcing as much as it can (and usually paying more for less) and the higher pay grade functions are not easily outsourcable. > [@](#): > > b) Cost of living increases. I know the federal government doesn’t determine COL raises arbitrarily, but uses a formula. The pay raise is proposed in budgets, I don’t think the government’s hands are tied by the pronouncement of some economist. But I think that it is usually somewhere around the federal COLA. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-pay-continues-rapid-ascent-is-this-a-problem/509448/42 "2009-09-12T05:48:06Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > The OP pertains to the average of all workers. The salaries of CEOs and Governors seems of dubious relevance to this (except possibly to give a small boost to the average salary of non-govt employees). Many of the professionals in government could walk into a private sector job (in a more normal economy) at several times their government salary. I know folks that take 60% pay cuts when they join the civil service. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-pay-continues-rapid-ascent-is-this-a-problem/509448/43 "2009-09-12T06:01:27Z")
> [@intention](#): > > Next, I looked at total compensation. Here’s those numbers, in thousands of dollars: > > ```auto > > > Government, $77 > Federal Gov't, $111 > General government, $117 > Civilian gov't employees, $120 > Military\7\, $114 > Government enterprises, $85 > State and local, $68 > General government, $68 > Education, $67 > Other\8\, $68 > Government enterprises\8\, $71 > > ``` > > Again, draw your own conclusions. Mine are that state government employees earn only about half what the federal government employees earn. Since they do similar tasks, this is kinda strange … > > Also, the federal government average is more than all but 7 of the 96 categories … to me, that seems out of line, that on average the government folks are among the most highly paid people in the nation, up there with the hated oil companies and the like … > > Further insights welcome. WTF, military makes an average of 114K and civilian government employees make an average of 120K? I don’t see how this can be true because the GS scale tops out at around 120K and there is no way the entire federal government averages at the top pay grade. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-pay-continues-rapid-ascent-is-this-a-problem/509448/44 "2009-09-12T06:03:09Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > When you going to quit throwing that out like it is meaningful. Min. wage 7.25. You make 7.35 ,not min . wage. But does that change anything ? Make 7.75 and you can lump them with the middle class. but it is not true either. the fact is many, many people do not make a living wage, have no benefits and no health insurance. It is terrible. 13.5% of American live below twice the poverty level (oddly enough twice the poverty level is what you need to make to be considered poor; why they don’t just double the poverty level). ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-pay-continues-rapid-ascent-is-this-a-problem/509448/45 "2009-09-12T12:22:45Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Many of the professionals in government could walk into a private sector job (in a more normal economy) at several times their government salary. How is this relevant to my post that you quoted? > [@](#): > > I know folks that take 60% pay cuts when they join the civil service. This would surely be an exceedingly rare change to make if salary were the only consideration. For an accurate comparison, we should be looking at the total cost of employment (salary, benefits, pension, hours worked per year, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-pay-continues-rapid-ascent-is-this-a-problem/509448/46 "2009-09-14T21:31:25Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > How is this relevant to my post that you quoted? How is it not relevant? If your premise is that government rowkers might be overpaid and I point out that at the higher levels of pay, government workers can get higher paying jobs in the private sector then… > [@](#): > > This would surely be an exceedingly rare change to make if salary were the only consideration. For an accurate comparison, we should be looking at the total cost of employment (salary, benefits, pension, hours worked per year, etc.). The big difference is probably job security and hours worked, these jobs typically demand many more hours in the private sector and you can usually be fired at will. I believe the total cost of employment is far lower for federal employees than for private sector employees. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/federal-pay-continues-rapid-ascent-is-this-a-problem/509448.md?page=2)