# Feds 'black-bagging people' in Portland **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 18, 2020, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638 "2020-07-18T03:19:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/323 "2020-07-21T17:19:06Z")
Several legal bodies have filed suit, we shall see. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/324 "2020-07-21T17:20:36Z")
Those were _crimes against humanity._ Are you comparing tear gas and rubber bullets to what happened in the death camps? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/325 "2020-07-21T17:38:05Z")
The topic is black bagging in Portland; I said nothing of rubber bullets and tear gas. So we have your answer then. So long as POTUS and his thugs do not stoop to the level of the Third Reich, they’re not blatant. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/326 "2020-07-21T17:40:16Z")
By the time it gets that far, it’s too late. This is a trial balloon. If it flies, look out. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/327 "2020-07-21T17:49:04Z")
Do you think that they started with death camps? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/328 "2020-07-21T18:05:42Z")
Well…yeah, I do. And they stayed with them too. There were death camps in Tibet, then throughout the country, and now there are death camps in Xinjiang, and no one really seems to mind, care, or even be paying that much attention to it… Oh, you weren’t talking about the CCP? You meant you really, actually believe that this is Trump et al doing a trial balloon for death camps in the US?? It’s good that people are always worried about the right things… ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/329 "2020-07-21T18:27:12Z")
If you don’t believe it is hyperbole, then you are misinformed. Portland is not on fire. The protests are predominantly peaceful. You need to actually look at independent sources, not those trying to rile you up. But, even if they weren’t peaceful, you seem to not realize that even criminals have civil rights. Even they are entitled to the same due process you bring up whenever you defend accused rapists. What you are doing is arguing that, because of some evil people, it’s okay to abridge the civil rights of everyone. First they come for the protesters… And that reference is not an exaggeration. Blackbagging is straight out of the fascist handbook, and your justifications are the ones used by fascists. This goes 100% with the 14-point plan. The silver lining is that it’s so obvious that it’s in military manuals not to do this. This is not how you stop riots. You can never go in and attack when the movement has popular support in a region. If you do, you justify their actions and make things worse. Which, of course, is the point. Make it worse, to bring more people to shut off their brains and morals and say you can do whatever you want. Get their emotions to override their desire to live in a free republic. Even if things were as bad as you say (AND THEY ARE NOT), it would still be wrong for these actions to occur. These people are not guilty until proven innocent. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/330 "2020-07-21T18:28:27Z")
> [@XT](#): > > You meant you really, actually believe that this is Trump et al doing a trial balloon for death camps in the US? It has to start somewhere. There have been a few extremists who have suggested that we need to eradicate the goddam liberals by whatever means necessary. In order to reach that point, one has to increasingly tighten one’s grip on the country, which Individual-ONE and the Rs seem to be ham-handedly pursuing. Remember the Reagan doctrine of “never speak ill of a fellow Republican”, which has increased in force over time, though there have been a few counter-incidents. The RW is not more apparently laudable than any of the autocrats of the past, they tend to support their extremists in a way that other groups tend not to, and they may have enough grip on power in the current system to tighten their control. Individual-ONE will probably not order exterminations primarily because he will not be around long enough to reach that point. But we have no clue what manner of sweeping changes his administration might be able to accomplish, and we have no idea what might succeed him. There might be an extremist-moderate backlash that could turn out uglier than the possibilities of a RW Autocracy. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/331 "2020-07-21T18:29:35Z")
I’m sorry, we were talking about Portland. Do you have to make everything in every post and thread about China? As to your “It can’t happen here” attitude, I am sure that there were many in mid 1930’s Germany who would agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/332 "2020-07-21T18:33:21Z")
Yes, that is where it is going. Read the 14-point plan, and compare it with Trump’s campaign. Or, if you’re too lazy, here’s a video from a guy who used to work in this field: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/RKUVcAo3Cvw/maxresdefault.jpg "Let's talk about how Trump might win....") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKUVcAo3Cvw) Mockery is not argument. If your only counterargument is incredulity, you are admitting you have no argument. Same picking something worse and saying “at least it’s not that bad.” They’re just the typical ways to excuse things that the speaker knows are indefensible. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/333 "2020-07-21T18:34:49Z")
> [@XT](#): > > You meant you really, actually believe that this is Trump et al doing a trial balloon for death camps in the US?? It’s good that people are always worried about the right things… Authoritarians don’t always write a manifesto before committing crimes against humanity. Often they improvise. Trump famously likes to see what comes up and where the day takes him. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/334 "2020-07-21T18:46:01Z")
> [@XT](#): > > you really, actually believe that this is Trump et al doing a trial balloon for death camps in the US?? It’s a trial balloon for unidentified armed goons suppressing dissent. Do you think that’s a great idea so long as you don’t expect death camps to be involved? ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/335 "2020-07-21T18:49:48Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > A decision about where to live is a pretty significant decision, and to have the area around your home suddenly adopt substantially different rules than society in general compared to when you made the decision to live does not seem fair to those that disagree with the new rules. with this, my mind flashed to: the violent furor that erupted against legal residential desegregation several generations ago. The reasons the existing residents did not want to change was exceedingly abhorrent. Sorry they ‘didn’t agree with the new rules (desegregation)’, but it was moral and legal. Same here. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/336 "2020-07-21T18:53:37Z")
No, I think babbling about death camps in a circle jerk detracts from the real issues and it’s fucking annoying. Also, the lack of nuance in these discussions are also annoying. I don’t think that the federal agencies acting in Portland are a foreshadowing of fascism, nor do I think that the protesters are all sweetness and light…nor the reverse of either of those. I think it’s a complex cluster fuck, with both sides as well as those idiots in charge in the city having equal share of the blame AND points in their favor, and the fact that folks are talking about death camps WHEN ACTUAL FUCKING DEATH CAMPS GET ZERO FUCKING DISCUSSION IS EXTREMELY UNHELPFUL AND STUPID. If you are really interested in my thoughts, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/337 "2020-07-21T18:59:35Z")
Doesn’t Congress control the purse strings? Can’t it threaten to cut the budgets of the Federal agencies involved? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/338 "2020-07-21T18:59:37Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I think babbling about death camps in a circle jerk detracts from the real issues and it’s fucking annoying. I’m the one who said “trial balloon”. I’m the one you’re replying to. And I didn’t say a thing about death camps. So as an answer to my post that rant about not talking about death camps seems somewhat lacking. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/339 "2020-07-21T19:03:32Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Doesn’t Congress control the purse strings? Can’t it threaten to cut the budgets of the Federal agencies involved Hey, they could do better than that: > **[U.S. Senate: Request not Accepted - Security Risk Detected](https://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/general/one_item_and_teasers/waf.htm)** > > Request not Accepted - Security Risk Detected Whether they can get that through is, of course, another question. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/340 "2020-07-21T19:06:41Z")
[quote=“XT, post:328, topic:915638”]It’s good that people are always worried about the right [/quote] It’s disturbing when people don’t see a democracy dying right in front of them. But yeah, go ahead and inject into the conversation a country and culture that in its entire 5000 years of existence never once pretended to give a flying fuck about self-governance. Do you not understand the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/341 "2020-07-21T19:08:16Z")
I have no idea what actually happened there. But a senior Oregon official seems very concerned and there is talk of legal action. This process should not happen in any democracy, or really elsewhere, unless a terrorist act is in immediate progress and it can be reasonably justified. However, one assumes (hopes) things will get sorted out and calm down. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/342 "2020-07-21T19:08:38Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > destroying a fence is NOT “violence.” Yes it actually is. “…behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, **damage** , or kill someone or **something**.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638.md?page=18)