# Feds 'black-bagging people' in Portland **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 18, 2020, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638 "2020-07-18T03:19:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/22 "2020-07-18T04:23:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They still have to ID themselves as Federal Officers, however, etc. ID themselves to who? The people they are putting into unmarked SUVs? ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/23 "2020-07-18T04:25:45Z")
I read that they’re blindfolding people in the vehicles. It’s absolutely terrifying, which I expect is the intention. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/24 "2020-07-18T04:29:07Z")
Try to keep up. In **DC** those were BoP riot police. They arent in Portland. In Portland there are a hodgepodge of several Federal LEO agencies. Not BoP. If a Federal Agent detains or questions anyone, they have to announce themselves as a Federal Agent or agency name, such as “FBI”. Remember, I was a Treasury agent, this was drummed into us. Whenever we talked to anyone in a official function, out came our Commissions, which had our picture and name. NCIS gets this right: “NCIS” show the badge/commission. There are exceptions for undercover officers, of course, but they are not arresting anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/25 "2020-07-18T04:31:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > If a Federal Agent detains or questions anyone, they have to announce themselves as a Federal Agent or agency name, such as “FBI”. Remember, I was a Treasury agent, this was drummed into us. Whenever we talked to anyone in a official function, out came our Commissions, which had our picture and name. NCIS gets this right: “NCIS” show the badge/commission. There are exceptions for undercover officers, of course, but they are not arresting anyone. Sure they do. That is why you can hear those camouflaged guys telling the guy they put into the SUV that they were Federal Agents. 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/26 "2020-07-18T04:32:46Z")
Now THAT is the clearest Constitutional violation I’ve seen so far. Blindfolding someone is inhibiting their freedom of movement\* rights. If you can’t see where you are going, how can you know where to move? \*Being arrested doesn’t magically dissolve your right of movement. It inhibits it, it doesn’t make it go away. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/27 "2020-07-18T04:34:54Z")
I joked on Twitter, “Has anyone arrested tried whispering ‘Hail Hydra’” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/28 "2020-07-18T04:35:40Z")
My point is- they are _not following the regulations._ Certainly they CAN physically fail to state “Federal Agent!”, but as quoted in that _Seventh Circuit_ dec, they run grave risks by failing to do so, and they are certainly violating policy by that failure. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/29 "2020-07-18T04:37:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > My point is- they are _not following the regulations._ Certainly they CAN physically fail to state “Federal Agent!”, but as quoted in that _Seventh Circuit_ dec, they run grave risks by failing to do so, and they are certainly violating policy by that failure So your point is there are random camouflaged people rounding up Americans and putting them into unmarked SUVs? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/30 "2020-07-18T04:39:57Z")
You have a penchant for asking antagonistic questions, instead of telling us what your thoughts are. I have had just about enough of your antagonistic questions here, since it seems we agree on the wrongness. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/31 "2020-07-18T04:43:33Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You have a penchant for asking antagonistic questions, instead of telling us what your thoughts are. > > I have had just about enough of your antagonistic questions here, since it seems we agree on the wrongness If by “antagonistic questions” you mean asking you what you think, then I agree. Rarely do people ask me what I think. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/32 "2020-07-18T04:49:13Z")
Has anyone who has been bagged also been tagged and released? If so, what have they said about what happened in custody? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/33 "2020-07-18T04:53:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Has anyone who has been bagged also been tagged and released? If so, what have they said about what happened in custody I was wondering the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/34 "2020-07-18T04:57:49Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I was wondering the same thing The problem is our Portland police have no idea what department they are with or where they are taking people, so if someone is permanently “disappeared” we may be up shit creek. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/35 "2020-07-18T05:01:46Z")
All i can find is that some were released without being charged. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/36 "2020-07-18T05:02:50Z")
> [@Pavelb1](#): > > All i can find is that some were released without being charged Where did you find that? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/37 "2020-07-18T05:03:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The problem is our Portland police have no idea what department they are with or where they are taking people, so if someone is permanently “disappeared” we may be up shit creek the good news is, apparently you and I can just dress up in camouflage and kidnap people from the street. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/38 "2020-07-18T05:07:34Z")
[Here](https://apnews.com/95ed013d58a00db0d85ddfd14ab51d2c) One guy arrested said “He asked for a lawyer and they let him go.” ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/39 "2020-07-18T05:08:01Z")
Here’s an account of someone who was picked up and released later without charges: > **[Federal Law Enforcement Use Unmarked Vehicles To Grab Protesters Off Portland...](https://www.opb.org/news/article/federal-law-enforcement-unmarked-vehicles-portland-protesters/)** > > Federal law enforcement officers have been using unmarked vehicles to drive around downtown Portland and detain protesters since at least July 14.  ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/40 "2020-07-18T05:09:49Z")
[https://themindunleashed.com/2020/07/feds-use-unmarked-vans-to-kidnap-protesters-off-portland-streets-enraging-local-officials.html](https://themindunleashed.com/2020/07/feds-use-unmarked-vans-to-kidnap-protesters-off-portland-streets-enraging-local-officials.html) > In one such incident on July 15, protesters Conner O’Shea and Mark Pettibone were leaving a protest at the Multnomah County Justice Center and Mark O. Hatfield Federal Courthouse when an unmarked minivan pulled up in front of them. > > _“I see guys in camo,”_ O’Shea explained. \*“Four or five of them pop out, open the door and it was just like, ‘Oh \*\*\*_. I don’t know who you are or what you want with us.’”_ > > While O’Shea said he managed to flee – after which he was pursued by a second minivan – Pettibone wasn’t so lucky. > > _“I am basically tossed into the van,”_ Pettibone said. _“And I had my beanie pulled over my face so I couldn’t see and they held my hands over my head.”_ > > Pettibone was understandably terrified and had no idea why he was arrested or detained before ultimately being released two hours later. However, during the ordeal he was essentially blindfolded while surrounded by armor-clad men who wore no markings and didn’t even identify themselves. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/41 "2020-07-18T05:12:21Z")
So, if I happen to carry one of those stun gun things and I use it on some unknown person who is trying to abduct me, can I be charged with assaulting an officer, given that I had no way of knowing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638.md?page=3)