# Feds 'black-bagging people' in Portland **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 18, 2020, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638 "2020-07-18T03:19:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/523 "2020-07-23T02:16:42Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Now that’s a loophole you can drive an armored vehicle through. Yeah, when the city declared police couldn’t use tear gas except in life threatening situations, it’s amazing how lives were suddenly being threatened on a regular basis. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/524 "2020-07-23T02:22:32Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > And [here’s another link](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/07/federal-judge-issues-14-day-order-exempting-journalists-with-press-passes-legal-observers-from-police-orders-to-disperse-during-unlawful-assemblies-riots.html) that’s specific to Portland. I think that’s a good thing (but short lived as it appears to have already expired). Whether you are a protester or a policeman, you should not be able to restrict others from taking videos of what you are doing or what is going on in general. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/525 "2020-07-23T02:28:01Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > (but short lived as it appears to have already expired). Works for me. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/526 "2020-07-23T02:29:00Z")
I think he meant the court order. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/527 "2020-07-23T02:31:05Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I think he meant the court order. Thus the reason one of my science teachers really hated the word “it”. Edited to re-add the quote. Why does this thing automatically remove those? ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/528 "2020-07-23T02:37:49Z")
> If that was not the original intent then my post is invalid because it’s the _“disappear” part that I think is that can have the “ever” term applied._ Huh?? Care to try again? ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/529 "2020-07-23T02:39:38Z")
[Goon Squad shot a college history professor in the head](https://i.redd.it/u9r8nv0mwac51.png). [Looks like those POS cop unions are the ones](https://www.thedailybeast.com/police-unions-tell-trump-to-send-in-the-feds-to-cities-like-portland-and-chicago) hyping Cheeto Jesus into ramping this shit to the rafters. Yeah, police unions gotta go and I say that as a staunch union supporter–but those fucks aren’t unions in any real way and cops aren’t workers. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/530 "2020-07-23T03:13:00Z")
[Portland City Council votes unanimously:](https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/07/portland-bans-police-from-working-with-federal-law-enforcement-targeting-journalists-and-legal-observers-during-protests.html) > Portland will immediately ban all police bureau members from [cooperating with federal law enforcement](https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2020/07/evidence-shows-portland-police-working-with-federal-officers-at-protests-contradicting-city-officials.html) or intentionally using force on or arresting journalists and legal observers, under new policies the City Council passed Wednesday. I’m generally not a big fan of Chloe Eudaly but this is a good move, I approve. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/531 "2020-07-23T03:37:41Z")
[Philly’s on the short list but something tells me they’re gonna take the road show to a different town](https://lawandcrime.com/george-floyd-death/philadelphia-da-promises-to-criminally-charge-trumps-dhs-troops-if-they-kidnap-protesters/). Makes me wonder if this is part of the reason they picked Portland to kick off their national tour–the Multnomah County DA just up and resigned a few weeks ago and his replacement (a progressive who won his spot with about 76% of the vote) will be taking office early–but not until August first. Hmmmm… ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/532 "2020-07-23T03:38:11Z")
So, the police will continue to do nothing and allow property to be smashed and lunatics to run rampant? In other words the status quo? What’s funny is more vitriol and unhinged attacks were leveled at a kid wearing a hat or someone speaking at a college campus from here on this board and folks in the mass media than is directed at felonious anarchists. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/533 "2020-07-23T03:42:39Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So, the police will continue to do nothing and allow property to be smashed and lunatics to run rampant? In other words the status quo? Maybe instead of being deployed to peaceful protests, they could go after the looters and vandals. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/534 "2020-07-23T03:44:38Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > > [@octopus](#): > > > > So, the police will continue to do nothing and allow property to be smashed and lunatics to run rampant? In other words the status quo? > > Maybe instead of being deployed to peaceful protests, they could go after the looters and vandals.  The White House? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/535 "2020-07-23T03:47:56Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So, the police will continue to do nothing and allow property to be smashed and lunatics to run rampant? Ahh, _this_ was the time the police were going to do something about that? As opposed to the way they’ve treated rioters and looters since I can remember . . . busted skulls and no arrests. CMC ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/536 "2020-07-23T04:26:16Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I think that’s a good thing (but short lived as it appears to have already expired). [It was extended to October 30](https://aclu-or.org/en/press-releases/judge-grants-preliminary-injunction-aclu-case-protect-journalists-and-legal-observers) last week. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/537 "2020-07-23T04:52:24Z")
It is already too far, that is why the ACLU, etc are suing. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/538 "2020-07-23T04:53:20Z")
No, you dont have to read someone their rights. If you dont, and you DO question them, that evidence is not admissible. They did charge her. It’s not OK, which is why the ACLU is suing. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/539 "2020-07-23T05:11:07Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So, the police will continue to do nothing and allow property to be smashed and lunatics to run rampant? In other words the status quo? Can you at least _pretend_ to respond to what people are actually saying in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/540 "2020-07-23T05:28:09Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > [quote=“XT, post:461, topic:915638”]apart from maybe nationalization of the economy, which does not seem to be a uniformly recognized component of fascism Which is absolutely NOT listed in Wikipedia’s definition. Funny, that. Because we’re not “OMGSOCIALIST”, we can’t be heading towards facism. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/541 "2020-07-23T05:39:28Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Which is absolutely NOT listed in Wikipedia’s definition. Funny, that. Because we’re not “OMGSOCIALIST”, we can’t be heading towards facism. Yeah, what Wikipedia actually says is this, which sounds more familiar, somehow: “Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky (national economic self-sufficiency) through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/542 "2020-07-23T07:12:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > AFAIK\< no one is being “disappeared.” The reports are of people being grabbed, questioned and released. And yet, if anyone _wasn’t_ released we’d have no way of knowing because these people are not able to communicate while being held. > [@RaftPeople](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Article II(2) of the 1993 Chemical Weapons Convention defines the term “ **toxic chemical** ” as: > > > > > Any chemical which through its chemical action on life processes can cause death, temporary incapacitation or permanent harm to humans or animals. This includes all such chemicals, regardless of their origin or of their method of production, and regardless of whether they are produced in facilities, in munitions or elsewhere. > > > [@](#): > > > > Article II(7) of the 1993 Chemical Weapons Convention defines “ **Riot Control Agent** ” as: “Any chemical not listed in a Schedule, which can produce rapidly in humans sensory irritation or disabling physical effects which disappear within a short time following termination of exposure.” It’s a matter of degree - mace, tear gas, and pepper spray most certainly can cause “temporary incapacitation”, that’s how it _works._ That’s the _point_. They can and have caused death in people with respiratory issues. They are certainly not intended to be blasted into someone face multiple times at point-blank range as we have seen in more than on video of what’s going on in Portland. It’s like rubber bullets and tasers - they’re not harmless and they most certainly can maim and kill. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638.md?page=28)