# Feds 'black-bagging people' in Portland **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 18, 2020, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638 "2020-07-18T03:19:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/42 "2020-07-18T05:15:59Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > So, if I happen to carry one of those stun gun things and I use it on some unknown person who is trying to abduct me, can I be charged with assaulting an officer, given that I had no way of knowing I don’t think you will be charged afterwards. I don’t think you will be afterwards, period. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/43 "2020-07-18T05:17:03Z")
From the article: _OPB sent DHS an extensive list of questions about Pettibone’s arrest including: What is the legal justification for making arrests away from federal property_? What is the legal justification for searching people who are not participating in criminal activity\*\*? Why are federal officers using civilian vehicles and taking people away in them\*\*\*? Are the arrests federal officers make legal under the constitution? If so, how\*\*\*\*?\* Lets roleplay a federal response: \*Feds certainly don’t have to be on federal property to execute an arrest \*\*That’s a leading question. If you’re asking ‘were they engaged in criminal activities’ We believed they were \*\*\*There’s no law against it. \*\*\*\*That’s for a court to decide, but we’re confident we could withstand any legal scrutiny. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/44 "2020-07-18T05:19:20Z")
> [@Pavelb1](#): > > _OPB sent DHS an extensive list of questions about Pettibone’s arrest including: What is the legal justification for making arrests away from federal property_ ? What is the legal justification for searching people who are not participating in criminal activity\*\*? Why are federal officers using civilian vehicles and taking people away in them\*\*\*? Are the arrests federal officers make legal under the constitution? If so, how\*\*\*\*?\* > > Lets roleplay a federal response: > > \*Feds certainly don’t have to be on federal property to execute an arrest > \*\*That’s a leading question. If you’re asking ‘were they engaged in criminal activities’ We believed they were > \*\*\*There’s no law against it. > \*\*\*\*That’s for a court to decide, but we’re confident we could withstand any legal scrutiny How about you roleplay what your point is? ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/45 "2020-07-18T05:20:28Z")
Cause I’m not interested in playing your begging to fight games. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/46 "2020-07-18T05:23:27Z")
Cool with me. Just keep on with your pointless OP then. Have fun with it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/47 "2020-07-18T05:27:49Z")
Note that if they get away with this shit in Portland Trump’s SS will take their act nation wide. Portland was a dry run. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/48 "2020-07-18T05:46:29Z")
Well I hope they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/49 "2020-07-18T05:48:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Has anyone who has been bagged also been tagged and released? If so, what have they said about what happened in custody? Yes. Mark Pettibone is a friend of my daughter’s. I’ve seen his Insta post about the incident–it’s a private account though so I can’t link to it nor do I feel comfortable posting his account, but I can add to the article that the officers detained him, did indeed blindfold him, he was cut loose after he invoked his fifth amendment rights and asked for an attorney and he was never given any paperwork pertaining to the detainment or his release. He did state that they intentionally broke his respirator mask and that after they released him back into the park they promptly tear gassed the entire area so he’s feeling a little rocky from that. This guy is fully employed, a graduate of Reed college and a writer, he’s not some punk kid playing games. He says the experience was absolutely terrifying and he feels it was meant to be so. So, just to recap, the Governor wants all these assholes to fuck off but the excruciatingly appropriately monickered DHS dickweed Chad Wolf [flatly refuses to go.](https://twitter.com/ByMikeBaker/status/1284284690665312256) He says the DHS is here to “[take a stand](https://katu.com/news/local/time-to-take-a-stand-in-downtown-portland-dhs-acting-secretary-says)” even though nobody asked for them nor do we want them sticking their well armed terrorist oars in our water. It’s very Portland to have our local tabloid [spell and grammar check](https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2020/07/16/28645782/dhs-director-decries-violent-anarchists-taking-over-portland) Wof’s statement though, that’s a nice touch. Then we have ICE agents trying to do the kidnap trick but [they chickened out when they figured out they were being recorded](https://twitter.com/MasonLakePhoto/status/1283959799353229312?s=20). Not quite sure what the fucking [Stryker tank](https://i.redd.it/3r0p3hp3efb51.jpg) is for but it’s parked outside the Portland Bureau of Transportation. I’m guessing it’s not there to deliver balloon bouquets to sick kids in the hospital though–wild speculation on my part. [Everyone from the mayor up to both our senators](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/oregon-portland-federal-officers-1.5653221?fbclid=IwAR2GC9PYsmt7UNShVoF6WDrk8vbrCH03nYAoPpjmd5_8z7puBpkeCXXWz7I) is saying “get the fuck out” but of course nobody gets to tell cops what to do about anything. Oh, [and in addition to reporters](https://twitter.com/hungrybowtie/status/1284036971623415808?s=20), they’re[intentionally targeting medics](https://twitter.com/laurenthehough/status/1284054845020872712). MEDICS, FFS. Mostly, though, they’re just having fun. Like randomly pepper spraying people for literally no reason. [Watch at the end where the kulak deliberately tears the masks of a woman’s face and pepper sprays her, point blank](https://twitter.com/r2020PB/status/1284016325657088000?s=20). So yeah. Anyone care to take a swing at explaining to this Portlander how all this is perfectly normal and okay and totes constitutional, also how we deserve it because graffiti? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/50 "2020-07-18T05:56:31Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well I hope they don’t Where have I heard this before? Oh, yeah-all the other times Trump and the Trumpettes have gone far beyond The Call Of Sanity. Unless Trump’s SS is publicly evicted from Portland, Trump _will_ declare this to be a victory, and Trump _will_ expand this shit show to other towns. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/51 "2020-07-18T05:57:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Where have I heard this before? > Oh, yeah-all the other times Trump and the Trumpettes have gone far beyond The Call Of Sanity. > Unless Trump’s SS is publicly evicted from Portland, Trump _will_ declare this to be a victory, and Trump _will_ expand this shit show to other towns. Yeah, I know. But what the hell can I do about it in Maryland? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/52 "2020-07-18T06:01:05Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yeah, I know. But what the hell can I do about it in Maryland Find out _ahead of time_ how/if your local government is prepared for this crap. Raise a preemptive stink. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/53 "2020-07-18T06:28:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Find out _ahead of time_ how/if your local government is prepared for this crap. Raise a preemptive stink Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/54 "2020-07-18T07:05:32Z")
I’m watching livestreams of the protests. This has been going on for like 40 days?? Man, I cant imagine WHY the Covid cases have skyrocketed, “BUt Theu’RE WarINg MahsKs” Not all are. There’s not only no social distancing but most are just milling around shoulder to shoulder for hours on end. There’s no way people arnt taking off their masks for short periods to be heard with all that noise. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/55 "2020-07-18T07:15:36Z")
Yes. One man said they read him his rights, asked him to give up his right to remain silent, he refused, demanded his lawyer ( **Just like they tell you to do** ) and he was released- with apparently no record at all of his detention. **"Am I free to go? I want my/a lawyer."** ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/56 "2020-07-18T07:17:32Z")
Yes, you can & will be charged. No doubt. Will the DA drop the charges? Will a jury find you guilty? are the more relevant question. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/57 "2020-07-18T08:42:24Z")
Sounds a little heavy handed and who knows what the legality of what they are doing is. However, if the cities and states hadn’t abdicated their responsibility and if local prosecutors were doing their job the federal government wouldn’t have had to step in to help end the anarchy. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/58 "2020-07-18T08:57:23Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > However, if the cities and states hadn’t abdicated their responsibility and if local prosecutors were doing their job the federal government wouldn’t have had to step in to help end the anarchy. And this is why Trump will find it easy to expand this obscene program to other cities-His supporters’ willingness to overlook just about _anything_ he asks them to do and the “We don’t know if it is legal and we really don’t give a shit” attitude feeds his ego like crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/59 "2020-07-18T09:49:48Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > n custody > > I was wondering the same thing. > [@Slash1972](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > Has anyone who has been bagged also been tagged and released? If so, what have they said about what happened in custody > > I was wondering the same thing. Yeah, that’s really important - what’s happening to these people and do any get released? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/60 "2020-07-18T10:09:07Z")
> [@Pavelb1](#): > > I’m watching livestreams of the protests. This has been going on for like 40 days?? Man, I cant imagine WHY the Covid cases have skyrocketed, > > “BUt Theu’RE WarINg MahsKs” > > Not all are. There’s not only no social distancing but most are just milling around shoulder to shoulder for hours on end. There’s no way people arnt taking off their masks for short periods to be heard with all that noise. Some things are worth fighting for. Some things are worth taking risks. A lot of people think living in a free and fair society is one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/61 "2020-07-18T10:12:48Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Sounds a little heavy handed and who knows what the legality of what they are doing is. It absolutely heavy-handed and the legalities have already been outlined in this thread so you can go back a read those posts and have your ignorance and questions on the matter relieved. > [@octopus](#): > > However, if the cities and states hadn’t abdicated their responsibility and if local prosecutors were doing their job the federal government wouldn’t have had to step in to help end the anarchy. It is legal for citizens to protest, yes, even in the street. It is your side that finds people exercising their right of free speech to object to your side “illegal”. Newsflash: it’s not. It’s entirely legal for people to march, yell, and demonstrate. It’s not “anarchy”, it’s democracy and I’m sorry if it frightens some people. The Federal presence is not wanted, and by anonymously kidnapping people off the street they are only making the situation worse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638.md?page=4)