# Feds 'black-bagging people' in Portland **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 18, 2020, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638 "2020-07-18T03:19:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/583 "2020-07-23T15:11:14Z")
I don’t wholly disagree with your premise but i am still flabbergasted that since the reason the feds were called was due to arson (set by fireworks) that peaceful protestors would think it would be a good idea to shoot more towards the federal building … Stupid, stupid, stupid. They have since turned this a long ways away from the items they wanted addressed, when they had almost the entire country with them, we are now divided again, More stupid , stupid, stupid. For the record, your stance is a lot more reasonable than the lot who think that law enforcement should do nothing ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/584 "2020-07-23T15:25:57Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > but i am still flabbergasted that since the reason the feds were called was due to arson (set by fireworks) But I wholly disagree with the above. There have been repeated objections by various municipal and state authorities to the involvement of the federal law enforcement. Their presence seems to have been a calculated attempt by the Trump Administration to escalate the situation rather than bring a peaceful resolution. Things were demonstrably quieter in Portland before their involvement. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/585 "2020-07-23T15:30:30Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Allowing non peaceful rioters to hide within your ranks makes you guilty by association. How many do you think they have ratted out? If the police can’t identify them, why do you think individual legitimate protestors can identify them? And attempting to assign guilt by association is generally considered a bad thing. Especially when it’s done by the police. > [@Kearsen1](#): > > I think the point that is missing but being tossed about is that the federal agents are, currently, only responding to the things the protestors do or don’t do (obeying lawful orders). THEY are not the ones escalating the situation. They’re tear gassing peaceful protestors. That most certainly is escalating the situation. They’re also snatching people who are not doing anything illegal at the time and may well have not done anything illegal at all into unmarked vehicles. That most certainly is escalating the situation. > [@Kearsen1](#): > > the reason the feds were called They were called? First I heard of it. The federal government sent them, against the wishes of the local authorities. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/586 "2020-07-23T15:57:51Z")
You didn’t read the article did you? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/587 "2020-07-23T15:59:42Z")
Yes the municipalities that DID nothing, objected to order being restored because it highlights their inability or desire to do anything. Something similar happened here in Austin last year with the homeless people camping out ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/588 "2020-07-23T16:01:01Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > objected to order being restored 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/589 "2020-07-23T16:11:52Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > But I’m not surprised that with as much unrest and destruction that the left has engaged in that won’t ever be prosecuted or even arrested for by local leader that the Federal government is taking over the role. Its interesting that this one case of ignoring federal law is so important. I think it’s because it’s politically inconvenient for citizens armed with spray paint, trash bags, and umbrellas to demonstrate some minor form of balance of power. I have noticed the right finds it awfully convenient to ignore the federal laws broken by Cliven Bundy. Where’s the intellectual consistency? Where did I hear an argument like that from before? Oh yeah, that’s right… > [@When will Cliven Bundy (et. al.) be arrested by the federal government?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/189): > > Interesting that this one case of ignoring federal law is so important. I think it’s because it’s politically inconvenient for armed citizens to demonstrate some minor form of balance of power. I have noticed that the left finds it awfully convenient for the federal laws concerning immigration or marijuana possession are ignored. Where’s the intellectual consistency? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/590 "2020-07-23T16:16:16Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Yes the municipalities that DID nothing, objected to order being restored because it highlights their inability or desire to do anything. In your opinion, has Federal involvement made things better? Is expansion into other cities looking like it will yield better results? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/591 "2020-07-23T16:20:43Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > What I said was an accurate assessment of the hypocritical and destructive protests. What is happening in Portland is nonsensical and those protesting are far more fascist than those they are calling fascist. It would be comical if it weren’t so serious. Is this satire? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/592 "2020-07-23T16:30:29Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Do I think it’s right? I mean I honestly don’t know I am not there, but I did find it incredibly dumb that the mayor allowed CHAZ to happen in the first place and did nothing? Not only do the peaceful protesters get punished for something somebody next to them did, now Portland is justified in being punished for something Seattle did? I get that to those outside the Pacific Northwest, they might seem the same. But they actually have different mayors, and in fact different governors, being that they’re not even in the same state. You’re not giving me much confidence that you actually understand the situation. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/593 "2020-07-23T16:48:20Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > I find the tear gas, in an attempt to peacefully disperse a crowd or firing rubber bullets … a fairly reasonable response. Using violent methods to “peacefully” disperse a crowd seems like a contradiction. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/594 "2020-07-23T16:54:27Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Did you know that mace and tear gas are essentially the same thing? Lots of people carry mace (legally) to protect themselves from dangerous situations. No, I did not know they are essentially the same thing because that statement is bullshit. > Though the design has been expanded on, the original Chemical Mace formula using only CN has since been discontinued. Due to the potentially toxic nature of CN and the generally superior incapacitating qualities of [oleoresin capsicum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleoresin_capsicum) (OC) pepper spray in most situations, the early CN has been mostly supplanted by OC formulas in police use, although Mace Security International still retains a popular “Triple Action” formula combining CN, OC and an [ultraviolet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet) marker dye. [Cite.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_(spray)) I have been exposed to both capsicum spray – just a whiff some ten seconds after it had been spritzed in the air – and CN – when I was in boot camp. The two are not even close to similar. And there’s a difference between someone carrying a can in her purse while she walks down a dark street, and an armored, faceless, mil-spec thug ripping a COVID mask off an unthreatening person and spraying them from a range of eighteen inches. If you cannot see that, I pity you. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/595 "2020-07-23T17:08:32Z")
I guess in order to answer that question we would need to define better? Better as in protected federal buildings, maybe that is yes. Better as in people have full faith in the government (or the police forces) , not likely. It does sadden me that this thing has grown legs and gotten so far afield from what it started as. There was much much support for the things that need doing, and then to lose it’s focus due to some bad apples is cringe worthy but probably expected. People get a little bite of the apple and instead of being satisfied (for the time being), decide they want the whole apple. I find that not only an entitled view but a disappointing one as well. Delayed gratification is a learned behavior and people are really really bad at it. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/596 "2020-07-23T17:09:13Z")
Same coin, different sides ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/597 "2020-07-23T17:09:17Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Better as in protected federal buildings, maybe that is yes. > Better as in people have full faith in the government (or the police forces) , not likely. Is this a country of buildings or a country of people? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/598 "2020-07-23T17:11:11Z")
Tear gas is about as peaceful as you can get on peaceful protestors, it usually gets them to leave without altercation. Would you rather they pushed everyone out physically? I imagine the rubber bullets were to stop them from moving close or tossing fireworks in or at the building. Again, did you read the article? ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/599 "2020-07-23T17:14:15Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > No, I did not know they are essentially the same thing because that statement is bullshit. I didn’t say that mace is the same as pepper spray, I said tear gas is essentially the same as mace (which it is according to every source I could find). I never mentioned pepper spray at all and I’m not sure why you are introducing it into this conversation. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/600 "2020-07-23T17:14:51Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > You didn’t read the article did you? I’m probably being lazy, but I don’t know which article you’re referencing. Can you please repost? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/601 "2020-07-23T17:16:50Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Tear gas is about as peaceful as you can get on peaceful protestors Actually, I can think of a more peaceful way to treat peaceful protesters. Can you? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/602 "2020-07-23T17:17:38Z")
It was actually from Troutman’s cite from post 561, I quoted a piece a few posts down from that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638.md?page=31)