# Feds 'black-bagging people' in Portland **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 18, 2020, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638 "2020-07-18T03:19:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/783 "2020-07-24T22:28:16Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > One person or a small group: > As stated multiple times, I would arrest the individuals. From what I gather, this is not what police are usually doing though. They seem to prefer to, instead of doing that, skip right to violently attacking innocent protesters. Because the _real_ crime is failing to respect their authoriTAY. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/784 "2020-07-24T22:39:50Z")
@RaftPeople, I think you’re talking past all the Portland residents posting in this thread because the academic discussions you insist on having are not reflective of what’s happening here. It’s all well and good to get someone to agree that if some specific act of specific severity occurs, then some specific level of force is justified. But what we’re telling you is that the level of force being applied to the protesters is vastly disproportionate to the threat. I don’t know how to prove this to you - if I point you toward videos, you will justifiably wonder if I’m just cherry picking. What I can tell you most definitively: the videos of actual violence by protesters, of property damage more severe that a rattled fence or a small fire in a little pile of garbage on the sidewalk - those are cherry picked. Most of the videos you see of riot police marching on protesters, beating them with batons, firing munitions at their face - those are not in response to cherry picked videos. They are in response to groups standing, chanting, shaking a fence and pounding on plywood. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2020, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/785 "2020-07-24T22:43:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, the versions I saw had no reactions and no audio. > > True, he did have a stick. Link, please, so we can tell you whether it’s the same video? I think you may have seen a version that had been deliberately cut so as to deceive viewers. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Circling him, and telling to leave and escorting him out would be better He left almost as soon as he was challenged, followed by at least a couple of protestors. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2020, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/786 "2020-07-24T22:49:43Z")
Are you falsely attributing to me a quote, from a post that isn’t mine, on a sub-thread I have not participated in? That is still against the rules last I heard. I’m not sure if it is you or RaftPeople who did this. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2020, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/787 "2020-07-24T22:52:15Z")
It would appear that the friend of canines simply got his “b” names mixed up. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2020, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/788 "2020-07-24T22:53:49Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > With regard to the protests occurring today, this sounds like a fictional scenario. You are correct, both of the scenarios I described are fictional. I haven’t seen any examples of 1,000 people all committing petty acts of vandalism (or whatever you want to call it) and I also haven’t seen only one single person committing petty acts of vandalism. (regarding the case of zero acts, I have seen that for some durations of time). Not sure why you are focused on the specifics of the extreme examples (which exist to provide a more concrete picture of the abstract idea), the more important thing is the conceptual idea that there is a continuum of scenarios and a related continuum of responses. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2020, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/789 "2020-07-24T23:07:37Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > I think you’re talking past all the Portland residents posting in this thread because the academic discussions you insist on having are not reflective of what’s happening here. It’s all well and good to get someone to agree that if some specific act of specific severity occurs, then some specific level of force is justified. I understand what you are saying and agree, the academic discussion doesn’t address specific examples of what is happening in Portland. But I think it was necessary to step back because prior to that it was 500 posts of back and forth about whether the posters were “peaceful” or “violent” (in other words a typical SDMB “Great Debate”). I think by eliminating the word games and focusing on some examples and what is appropriate, it has helped with at the very least my understanding of a couple posters positions that were previously unclear. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2020, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/790 "2020-07-24T23:08:59Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I’m not sure if it is you or RaftPeople who did this. Are you able to either quote or point to what you are seeing? I scrolled back and I don’t see the issue. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2020, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/791 "2020-07-24T23:14:13Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Are you able to either quote or point to what you are seeing? I scrolled back and I don’t see the issue k9bfriender slightly mangled a quote nesting from you that quoted begbert2, resulting in the nested quote appearing to be from fictional poster “Broostick”. Your quote was fine, it was something that happened when you were quoted. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/792 "2020-07-25T00:20:04Z")
Its a short vid, several here have seen it, or a variation on it, of a man, in all black, wearing a military gas mask, calmly walking along, smashing windows. You havent seen it? They call him “Umbrella man”. Here is a article, , the link to the vid is gone [https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2020/05/30/who-is-umbrella-man-mystery-vandal-at-minneapolis-riot-spurs-conspiracies/#478442df236e](https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2020/05/30/who-is-umbrella-man-mystery-vandal-at-minneapolis-riot-spurs-conspiracies/#478442df236e) Apparently the vid I saw was a short version, just showing the guy, had no audio. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/793 "2020-07-25T00:59:26Z")
Chances are pretty good that a lot of the instigating violence by “protesters” is likely perpetrated by white supremacist instigators trying to use the protests to further their own agendas. I mean, it’s not like they’re exactly novices at terrorism and violence, right? > **[Leaked Documents Show Police Knew Far-Right Extremists Were the Real Threat...](https://theintercept.com/2020/07/15/george-floyd-protests-police-far-right-antifa/)** > > An analysis of leaked law enforcement documents reveals an obsession with “antifa” despite evidence of threats of violence to police and protesters. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/794 "2020-07-25T01:20:59Z")
And it’s a long read but definitely shines a whole big fat set of spotlights on why the incompetent shithead numbnutz in charge of things shit themselves every time someone sees or hears the word “antifa.” Fucking idiots. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/795 "2020-07-25T01:38:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > {…} a man, in all black, wearing a military gas mask {…} I do so adore that this is the _only_ evidence you require to declare someone your dreaded enemy, the ‘Black Bloc Anarchist’. CMC ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/796 "2020-07-25T02:02:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You havent seen it? They call him “Umbrella man”. Yes, I have seen it. I was trying to figure out whether you had seen the same one. And yes, he was challenged by protestors and escorted, or possibly chased, out of the area. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Apparently the vid I saw was a short version, just showing the guy, had no audio. I would be highly dubious about any news source that cut that video in such a way as to leave you under the impression that all the protestors were fine with that behavior. Every story I saw on a wide variety of sources – and I saw a number of them at the time and looked up a few more today – made it clear that other protestors objected, and that he was accused of being a provocateur, possibly a police agent (though the police have denied this, and the particular officer some people misidentified him as has been proved to have been elsewhere at the time.) > [@DrDeth](#): > > clearly a Black Bloc Anarchist, in all black, body armor and gas mask, And yes, coming back to this now that we’ve got that other issue straight: last I knew there was no law, let alone an enforced one, saying that only Black Bloc anarchists are allowed to dress in black and wear masks. Anybody can do that – including somebody who wants to look like a Black Bloc anarchist because he’s trying to get people in trouble who he thinks are associated with them, or who he wants others to think are associated with them. Maybe he was Black Bloc. Maybe he was police, but not that particular officer. Maybe he was a far-right provocateur, which would be my WAG. As far as I know he hasn’t been identified yet, so we don’t know. But you certainly can’t tell by his clothes. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/797 "2020-07-25T02:25:51Z")
Dressed all in black with a respirator mask? Fuck, that’s a goddamned hipster coming home from work trying not to get tear gassed so he can get to sleep. “Black Bloc Anarchist” my Aunt Fanny. Picture my eloquently derisive snort right here, wouldya? ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/798 "2020-07-25T03:45:18Z")
[![](https://i.redd.it/1vtglkzffwc51.png) ](https://i.redd.it/1vtglkzffwc51.png) Hahaha, go, PBOT, go! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/799 "2020-07-25T04:04:10Z")
It’s not like Portland has a functioning government to enforce that. A bunch of unemployed, unwashed, and poorly educated criminals aren’t a government. Yet. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/800 "2020-07-25T04:17:18Z")
Hey, any shoe polish aficionados care to take a swing at explaining what heinously important law the man dancing with the flowers broke that justified him being grabbed by goons while his buddies fire about a hundred rounds of rubber bullets at point blank range at the rest of the group of protesters? And what’s all that bullshit _Mission Impossible_ posturing they’re doing when they scurry off into their hidey hole? Do they think they’re LARPing Call of Duty or WTF is that? Goddamned weenieboys. [https://twitter.com/EndSoundtrack/status/1286616736695857152](https://twitter.com/EndSoundtrack/status/1286616736695857152) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/801 "2020-07-25T04:26:59Z")
Why the antagonistic questions? Is that the only time the polic euse tear gas? Do you think I am in favor of Barr’s brownshits being there? was this post necessary? Do you have opinions or can you “just ask questions”? ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/802 "2020-07-25T04:32:08Z")
Did you notice, Dr Deth, that you just asked 5 questions? Without offering any opinions? Guess it depends on whose ox is being gored. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638.md?page=41)