# Feds 'black-bagging people' in Portland **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 18, 2020, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638 "2020-07-18T03:19:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/843 "2020-07-25T22:08:07Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > That’s kind of odd. Why are they not posting that one if they posted the others? Not sure. We (four people), saw the same clip about 3 times over a 90 minute period. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/844 "2020-07-25T22:28:22Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > The point is that violent protests could push some percentage of the moderates over to a law and order position resulting in Trump getting re-elected. From [the second link in post #825](https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/07/24/polling-shows-trumps-secret-police-portland-and-gop-lawmaker-complicity-could-have): > Public Policy Polling (PPP) this week surveyed registered voters in Arizona, Maine, and North Carolina, and found that majorities in all three states oppose Trump’s deployment of federal agents in Portland. Some critics have [charged](https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/07/20/trump-threat-unleash-secret-police-other-us-cities-slammed-scheme-steal-november) the president’s tactics are part of a ploy to sow chaos across the country in an effort to “steal” the election in November, when he is expected to face off against former Vice President Joe Biden. Voters also want Congress to [intervene](https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/07/22/has-stop-oregon-senators-unveil-amendment-bar-trump-sending-secret-police-us-cities). > > :snip: > > “These results show that Trump’s plan to use unidentified federal agents to suppress local protests is backfiring with the public. Voters oppose it, and they want their senators to act,” Rahna Epting, MoveOn Political Action’s executive director, [said](https://front.moveon.org/new-polls-unidentified-federal-police/) in a statement Friday. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/845 "2020-07-25T23:47:42Z")
@Skywatcher: As I said in my response to GIGO, I think the public views the violent protests as it relates to local police different than the federal agent issue. For violent protests without any federal agents, the public could (and based on what I’ve read typically do) tend to disagree with the violence. But the federal agent issue introduces something different that I think could be viewed differently by the general public. I know I view it differently. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/846 "2020-07-26T00:19:12Z")
Portland didn’t get all that violent until the Feds showed up. The posts in this thread by Portland resident(s) are my cite. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/847 "2020-07-26T00:25:03Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > because it doesn’t look like they’ve made it available …if they haven’t made it available, and if the person that they were speaking to went by the name “twitch”, and if the information is as incendendary as you claim, then the only reason that this isn’t all over the news right now is that maybe, just maybe, this person named “Twitch” isn’t credible, their information couldn’t be independently verified, and they aren’t going to continue to spread misinformation. There are lessons we could learn from that. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/848 "2020-07-26T01:48:20Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Haha, “Tear Gas Ted” Wheeler, mayor of Portland, has finally seen the light about how much it sucks. “I didn’t think the leopards would eat my face!” ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/849 "2020-07-26T02:36:57Z")
Maybe RaftPeople is confusing the protestor with the live streaming platform Twitch? ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/850 "2020-07-26T03:08:04Z")
My friends just reminded me, the name he was going by was “stitch”, not “twitch”. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/851 "2020-07-26T03:21:45Z")
Some of the things the “peaceful” protesters did today in Seattle: 1 - Attacked a restaurant owner when we tried to explain he is a BLM supporter, then they broke all of his windows 2 - Burned multiple portable/trailer offices at a construction site Something they did a few days ago but is just being reported by the ATF: Threw homemade bombs at police, explosives with an outer layer of bb’s. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/852 "2020-07-26T04:03:02Z")
And I can assume the Feds promptly arrested them? If not, why? Was it hundreds doing these crimes or was it a small handful or even just a few? The [Democratic Party State HQ in Arizona](https://www.foxnews.com/us/arizona-democratic-party-hq-building-fire-was-arson-police-say) was the victim of arson. I’d say it’s high time for the GOP to be outlawed for their support of arson. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/853 "2020-07-26T04:21:24Z")
The ones actually employing fascist tactics are the violent ‘peaceful’ protesters. If the government was 1/10 as bad as being made out to be they wouldn’t be able to set fires, throw explosives and rocks, shine lasers, vandalize the city with impunity… They’d be stopped and prosecuted. That’s the irony of the situation. Furthermore, the protesters are not just dishonest and hypocritical they are willfully ignorant and delusional. That’s a dangerous combination. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/854 "2020-07-26T04:25:35Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Some of the things the “peaceful” protesters did today in Seattle: > 1 - Attacked a restaurant owner when we tried to explain he is a BLM supporter, then they broke all of his windows > > 2 - Burned multiple portable/trailer offices at a construction site …why are you not providing cites for any of the allegations you are making? I’ve just googled your first claim about a restaurant owner and a cursory search showed nothing. I’m not gonna bother looking up the rest. Where are you seeing this stuff? > [@](#): > > Something they did a few days ago but is just being reported by the ATF: > Threw homemade bombs at police, explosives with an outer layer of bb’s. Why would we believe what the ATF says? I’m having trouble believing anything coming out of the Federal authorities at the moment. Its almost all propaganda. Can you show us where they said this? ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/855 "2020-07-26T04:47:22Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The ones actually employing fascist tactics are the violent ‘peaceful’ protesters. Protestors are either violent _or_ peaceful. A protester who is violent is not peaceful. One who is peaceful is not violent. Sort out by their observed actions and label them correctly, not by inflammatory rhetoric. If they are indeed being violent to instill fear and terror to gain power, then, yes, we can agree that is a fascist tactic. Just because protestors are saying things you don’t want to hear or you disagree with vehemently does not make them fascist, not even if it inconveniences you or makes you uncomfortable. Inconvenience and discomfort is the occasional price one pays for constitutionally protected freedom. If you want freedom, you have to give freedom. > [@octopus](#): > > Furthermore, the protesters are not just dishonest and hypocritical they are willfully ignorant and delusional. This sounds like you reached for a _Dictionary of Negative Adjectives Referring to Persons_ and picked out the first 4 polysyllabic ones that appealed to you—dishonest+hypocritical+ignorant+delusional. Please back those up with why someone should believe them. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/856 "2020-07-26T04:56:45Z")
> **[Cops declare Seattle protest a riot as buildings go up in flames](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8560753/Cops-declare-Seattle-protest-riot-youth-detention-center-goes-flames.html)** > > A protester was shot and killed in a shooting at a protest in Texas Saturday night as tensions flared across America. _Seattle protesters set fire to a youth detention center and a police precinct Saturday as they went on a rampage through the city, while a Wall of Moms and Vets took to the streets to protect demonstrators from law enforcement._ _Cops declared the protest a riot Saturday afternoon as firefighters fought to tackle the raging flames billowing out of a construction area near the King County Juvenile Detention Facility at 12th Avenue and Jefferson Street._ Things are getting worse. The Feds have made things worse, not better. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/857 "2020-07-26T04:57:25Z")
The Seattle protests are in direct response to the feds coming. Things had pretty much wound down until last weekend.That’s when what I presume were trumpists [arrrived at the end of a peaceful rally, armed with baseball bats, breaking windows, ensuring that the feds would be sent.](https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/seattle-downtown-protesters-marching-property-damage/281-fd0279c7-25e0-4caf-9cbd-286332f427f0) > A group of peaceful protesters gathered in Westlake Park for several hours Sunday and then a separate group arrived carrying baseball bats and was set out for “destruction and damage,” police said. > > The group marched from Westlake Park to the Municipal Courthouse, where they broke out several windows, police said. > > “As our neighborhood businesses struggle to recover, it’s frustrating to see such widespread and recurring damage to our center city. With our communities trying to rebuild, we need our leaders to ensure our city is safe for everybody. Unfortunately, Sunday’s acts of property destruction and vandalism only serve to undermine the ability of small businesses and our downtown to recover.” the Downtown Seattle Association said in a statement. > > The group then headed towards the West Precinct on Virginia Street and threw rocks, bottles, and “mortar-type” fireworks at officers. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/858 "2020-07-26T04:59:07Z")
Could Be right wingers, could be anarchists. But the Feds are making things worse, as was the plan. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/859 "2020-07-26T05:00:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Seattle protesters set fire to a youth detention center They set fire to a trailer in the parking lot, at the other end from the building. The facility is under construction for a hotly debated new youth jail. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/860 "2020-07-26T05:01:49Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > I protested last night by the Justice Center and federal courthouse. I was interested to see first-hand what it took to bring out the gas. Turns out, it takes shaking the fence and shooting off a few fireworks. The government’s story is basically what you wrote plus that some protesters had power tools, too. I’m not sure what kind of power tools they claimed to see or whether they constituted a realistic threat to the fence. From the New York Times, > _On Friday night, a crowd gathered outside a fence erected around the federal courthouse; some in the crowd lit fires, lobbed fireworks over the fence and attempted to pull it down with power tools. Federal agents entered the street to disperse the crowd at 2:30 a.m._ > > _Mr. Gabriel, the assistant U.S. attorney, said that the federal officers were forced into the streets to protect the fence. “The officers would love nothing more than to stay in the courthouse all night long,” he said. “If the protesters don’t seek to damage or destroy the fence, then the officers have no need to go outside the fence or leave federal property.”_ ~Max ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/861 "2020-07-26T05:06:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Could Be right wingers, could be anarchists. But the Feds are making things worse, as was the plan.  Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/862 "2020-07-26T05:10:22Z")
So, anyone have an answer for how many people were “black-bagged”? I suspect the answer is very few, and this is pretty much a bullshit story as far as this being widespread. Can anyone prove me wrong? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638.md?page=44)