# Feds 'black-bagging people' in Portland **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 18, 2020, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638 "2020-07-18T03:19:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/903 "2020-07-26T16:06:21Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > My cite wasn’t intended to “show a trend that it will continually get worse.” My cite was to show that “America has done this kind of thing before”, it appears you agree with me that America has done this kind of thing before, so I’ll take this as a concession that yes, the CPB “black bagging” protestors at the start of latest round of protests was standard procedure for them and that protesting against the tactic stopped it dead in its tracks. If there is any truth to the idea that “It can’t happen here”, it is because we will not let it. It is because we american people are vigilant about our democracy, and will protect it against those who would threaten it. It is not just some magical force field that keeps the Nazis at bay, it is our citizenry in action demanding accountability from those who are charged with governance. If we are complacent, and assume that we will maintain our freedoms due to the benevolence of the government, then they will be eroded and discarded. Complacency is the enemy of democracy, and the ally of totalitarianism. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/904 "2020-07-26T16:15:40Z")
Feds assaulting with teargas a peacefully protesting Vietnam veteran: [https://twitter.com/andrewkimmel/status/1287319466120904704](https://twitter.com/andrewkimmel/status/1287319466120904704) Inches from his face, and only him, for no reason at all. These thugs need to be prosecuted, as well as those who gave them any such unlawful orders. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/905 "2020-07-26T17:02:34Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I do wonder how they would react if you started playing the “Star Spangled Banner.” Would LEO have to put down their blackjacks and stand at attention? Doubt it, since they’ll attack a protester carrying a flag and they treat it like a used cum rag. It would be a huge mistake to assume the Goon Squads have any sort of patriotic tropism. They’re blindly loyal to anyone who tells them to beat on unarmed people, it’s like their religion or something. > **[Federal agents swarm American-flag bearing protester in Portland](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/portland-protests-federal-agents-trump-flag-oregon-a9637721.html)** > > Tear gas fired as 3,000 people take part in latest unrest ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/906 "2020-07-26T17:14:27Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …can you provide a cite for this? Specifically that the protest was only organized by the Youth Liberation Front, that they believe in abolishing the police (I’ve done a cursory search and this doesn’t appear to be a stated goal), and that they believe protest require violence? Each of these sources and many others (it’s pretty easy to find with google) state the same thing: This one is probably paywalled (sometimes I can read them and sometimes I can’t): > **[Subscribe | The Seattle Times](https://www.seattletimes.com/subscribe/signup-offers/?pw=redirect&subsource=paywall&return=https:%2F%2Fwww.seattletimes.com%2Fseattle-news%2Fyouth-liberation-front-protest-in-seattle-recalls-familiar-police-standoffs-as-federal-agents-stay-out-of-view%2F)** “ **Youth Liberation Front protest in Seattle** …” This one isn’t paywalled: > **[No feds in view as Seattle protest covers familiar ground | HeraldNet.com](https://www.heraldnet.com/northwest/fire-set-windows-broken-early-at-seattle-protests/)** > > Some in the crowd broke windows and started fires. Police declared the disturbances a riot. “…for the Seattle protest **organized by the Youth Liberation Front** ,…” This one isn’t paywalled: > **[Police Clash With Protestors in Capitol Hill | South Seattle Emerald](https://southseattleemerald.com/2020/07/26/police-clash-with-protestors-in-capitol-hill/)** > > by Elizabeth Turnbull On Saturday, protesters set fire to portable construction buildings at the site of the Judge Patricia H. Clark Children and Family Justice Center and inflicted damage on the East Precinct, while Seattle Police officers used... " Saturday’s demonstration was **called by the [Youth Liberation Front]**([Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/SEAPNWYLF/?eid=ARAF5UiZkxNWPx7faPtAIjl-3NgB5oX5qwWzHl2JRrU4cZbTmDe9ty04KHJYqYmuuO4LKILV7IYYS5-0&fref=tag))." This one is in Portland but the call was nationwide: > **[Portland group calls for global march against policing on Saturday](https://katu.com/news/local/portland-group-calls-for-global-march-against-policing)** > > A local group called the Youth Liberation Front called for a global march against the institution of policing on Saturday. This is the same group that attempted to set up an autonomous zone in downtown Portland. RELATED| Multiple arrests made,... “A local group called the **Youth Liberation Front called for a global march** against the institution of policing on Saturday.” > **[Black Lives Matter Protests & Resistance Events in Seattle This Weekend:...](https://www.thestranger.com/things-to-do/2020/07/24/44155589/black-lives-matter-protests-and-resistance-events-this-weekend-july-24-26-2020)** > > Protests, Art Events, and More Ways to Celebrate Black Lives " The PNW **Youth Liberation Front will gather** on Broadway E and E Pine in solidarity with Black Lives Matter activists in Portland, a city [currently occupied](https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2020/07/20/44126829/what-is-happening-in-portland) by federal officers." This is how I googled: “Seattle protest Youth Liberation Front” ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/907 "2020-07-26T17:18:47Z")
> **[Federal Agents Accused of War Crimes for Destroying Medical Supplies](https://www.newsweek.com/portland-federal-agents-destroying-medical-supplies-1519945?fbclid=IwAR16ux2iwdVZLCIY1gTuumVzn7QvumXNKA4yAyVHhhd4KlIg4OA_jyhwUec)** > > "The Geneva Convention states that destroying medical equipment is a war crime violation. Yet, here we are in Portland," Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding tweeted. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/908 "2020-07-26T17:19:13Z")
Man, they just do NOT learn–goddamned PPB kneeling on someone’s neck. > ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/909 "2020-07-26T17:26:08Z")
I don’t think that that is the right interpretation of the story. When they saw the flag, they were just so overwhelmed with patriotism that they just had to hug it. Not their fault that there was someone in their way of them displaying their love of our country. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/910 "2020-07-26T17:29:36Z")
@k9bfriender Nailed it! 😃 FWIW, Senators Merkley and Wyden and Congresspersons Bonamici and Blumenauer have gotten the Inspectors General of DHS and DOJ to open an investigation into what their people are doing here and how they’ve been conducting themselves. Doubt it will do much but I appreciate it that they’re at least TRYING. > > > Daniel Strauss @DanielStrauss4 ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/912 "2020-07-26T17:38:42Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > that they believe in abolishing the police (I’ve done a cursory search and this doesn’t appear to be a stated goal), and that they believe protest require violence? Regarding abolishing police, here are some things I found when I googled that. Here are some articles with some details: > **[Who is the PNW Youth Liberation Front at the center of recent Portland protests](https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2020/06/who-is-the-pnw-youth-liberation-front-at-the-center-of-recent-portland-protests.html)** > > Whether or not the Youth Liberation Front is a group with set membership, which remains unclear, it has functioned primarily as an organizing front during recent protests over the police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis on May 25. Some details from a Reddit Q+A: Q: " Are you all anarchists? If so, why?" A: “We’ve decided to go with “big leftist tent” to describe our network, though lots of our members, like myself, are anarchists.” From twitter: > “abolish the police” From here: [https://enoughisenough14.org/2020/07/20/july-25th-call-for-a-day-of-action-in-solidarity-with-portland-against-the-federal-invasion/](https://enoughisenough14.org/2020/07/20/july-25th-call-for-a-day-of-action-in-solidarity-with-portland-against-the-federal-invasion/) “The Youth Liberation Front (YLF) makes the following call for a day of action in solidarity with the ongoing resistance in Portland.” “The time for discussing reform is over, we need full abolition for our communities to be safe and free from rampant police terror.” This appears to be a non-paywalled version of a Seattle Times article (per this: " \* By Hal Bernton The Seattle Times (TNS)") [https://www.heraldmailmedia.com/news/nation/meet-the-youth-liberation-front-behind-a-militant-marathon-of-portland-protests/article\_818e1b3f-5b7c-5a2b-af1c-c16bffddfba4.html](https://www.heraldmailmedia.com/news/nation/meet-the-youth-liberation-front-behind-a-militant-marathon-of-portland-protests/article_818e1b3f-5b7c-5a2b-af1c-c16bffddfba4.html) “They are resolutely anti-capitalist and anti-fascist, and **express disdain for those who work for reform within** what they view as a failing political system.” ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/913 "2020-07-26T17:44:19Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > and that they believe protest require violence? From the non-paywalled Seattle Times article in previous post (linked again here): [https://www.heraldmailmedia.com/news/nation/meet-the-youth-liberation-front-behind-a-militant-marathon-of-portland-protests/article\_818e1b3f-5b7c-5a2b-af1c-c16bffddfba4.html](https://www.heraldmailmedia.com/news/nation/meet-the-youth-liberation-front-behind-a-militant-marathon-of-portland-protests/article_818e1b3f-5b7c-5a2b-af1c-c16bffddfba4.html) “In social media posts, Youth Liberation Front leaders portray **acts of vandalism as part of the broader struggle** to make big changes in America. **They reject any effort — by police or other groups — to divide the protest movement into those who are peaceful and those who turn to violence**.” ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/914 "2020-07-26T17:50:18Z")
What, if any, would be an alternative to stop this senseless crap…on both sides? ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/915 "2020-07-26T18:11:12Z")
Probably step one would be to recognize that the violent groups are a problem. Step two, for peaceful protesters, would be to distance themselves from the violent groups. For example, when there is a police line, and the violent people are attacking the police, the peaceful protesters could simply walk their march the other direction, leaving the violent protesters behind. Based on the live helicopter view of yesterday’s protest in Seattle, I think that could have worked. The violent protesters were so engaged with the police, I doubt they would have noticed that people further away were leaving the area. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/916 "2020-07-26T18:21:11Z")
Why would step one not be for the police and feds to stop violating the rights of innocent people? ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/917 "2020-07-26T18:22:57Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Step two, for peaceful protesters, would be to distance themselves from the violent groups. Another way to do this is for peaceful groups to not join up with protests organized by violent groups. It kind of blurs the lines between peaceful and violent when a peaceful group joins a group that is not only known to be violent, they are open about their intentions to be violent. Just allowing them the cover to mix in and hide from police is lending support to their actions. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/918 "2020-07-26T18:28:08Z")
Because there isn’t anyone in charge of LEO to order them to do so. They do not have a chain of command, or any responsibility to follow the orders of their superiors. Obviously, with such disorganization among LEO, different groups, different motivations, and different objectives, it would be like herding cats to get them to stop rioting against peaceful protesters. Protesters, OTOH, have extremely regimented hierarchy, and everyone who shows up follows the orders of the organizers. Or, wait, maybe I have that the wrong way around. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/919 "2020-07-26T18:32:47Z")
And when violent groups join the peaceful groups? Does that mean that the peaceful protesters need to just go home now? It also blurs the line a bit when there is absolutely no difference in the nuance of the word violence when it is used to describe anything from pushing on an illegally erected fence to murder. The only reason to use a word so ambiguously is to be able to use the accusation of violence to respond with far greater violence than what is offered by the protesters. “Well yeah, we had to shoot them in the face with ‘less lethal’ munitions, strike them with batons, throw them to the ground, spray tear gas in their face, because they were being violent when they shook that fence.” ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/920 "2020-07-26T18:34:13Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > Why would step one not be for the police and feds to stop violating the rights of innocent people? That’s an excellent question, and one I’d like to see the cop apologists actually address for once. The cops of all descriptions, including the Goon Squads, are WORKING. This is their JOB. They are ostensibly subject to ORDERS which they are bound to OBEY under pain of sanctions. And yet, we’ve seen over and over and over that they can’t even manage to do something as simple as “do not obstruct airways of suspects in any way” which means no chokeholds, no neck strikes and most especially NO KNEELING ON THEIR NECKS. Why do the apologists have this long laundry list of things the volunteer protesters, every one of whom is an individual subject to no expectations of stellar behavior, must do in order not to be gassed, beaten, shot, kidnapped and terrorized by the ones who are actually on the job and expected to follow some pretty clear rules that they’re abundantly shown not to be following even in the most cursory manner? Why do you expect better and more measured behavior from regular citizens (and, mostly, get that better behavior, by the way) than you expect from the cops you’re paying to act poorly? I think they all need to be fired, they’re obviously unsuited for the job of, y’know, following orders to keep the peace. Unless, of course, they’re following orders that are patently unconstitutional, in which case their superiors also need to be fired because they are performing their jobs poorly. In other words, defund the police. We pay them to do a job and they are not doing that job and are instead following an agenda that we, their employers, most emphatically Do Not Want. Why should we keep on paying them to brutalize us? ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/921 "2020-07-26T18:39:02Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And when violent groups join the peaceful groups? Does that mean that the peaceful protesters need to just go home now? You tell me, what did my post say? Here’s a hint: “For example, when there is a police line, and the violent people are attacking the police, the peaceful protesters could simply walk their march the other direction, leaving the violent protesters behind. Based on the live helicopter view of yesterday’s protest in Seattle, I think that could have worked. The violent protesters were so engaged with the police, I doubt they would have noticed that people further away were leaving the area.” So my post stated: “march the other direction” And you responded: “…need to just go home now?” Do you think your response is a valid response to my suggestion? Do you think your response is helpful for a debate? What was the purpose of posting what you posted? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/922 "2020-07-26T18:58:25Z")
No doubt the violent groups are a problem. But the protests in Portland has dwindled down to a 100 or so diehard guys in one small area. Enters the Feds. Now the protests are like 2000 people and a larger area and more damage. In other words, Barr did nothing but throw gasoline on a fire that was going out. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/923 "2020-07-26T19:01:13Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > It also blurs the line a bit when there is absolutely no difference in the nuance of the word violence when it is used to describe anything from pushing on an illegally erected fence to murder. Some of the actions by protesters in Seattle yesterday: 1 - Broke many windows in businesses and buildings 2 - Broke windows of parked cars 3 - Slashed tires of parked cars 4 - Destroyed the inside of some businesses 5 - Burned five portable trailers at a construction site 6 - Lit a Starbucks on fire that has residential apartments above it, and then told the residents they should evacuate 7 - Set off an explosive that blew an 8 inch hole in the wall of the police precinct 8 - Attacked a restaurant owner that tried to keep them from destroying his restaurant 9 - Attacked police with explosives, water bottles and other objects etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638.md?page=47)