# Feds 'black-bagging people' in Portland **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 18, 2020, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638 "2020-07-18T03:19:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1186 "2020-09-01T17:35:07Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > I support the right to defend yourself (even from words) as well as supporting the right to speak your mind, as well as support the law that calls the punch an assault. I really don’t see how this is a hard concept? To be pedantic, a punch is not “assault”, it is “battery”. Assault is merely getting up in someone else’s business. Quite frankly, walking into a crowd of potentially hostile people wearing MAGA/III%/PP gear could realistically be viewed as assault, just as much as yelling in someone’s face. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1187 "2020-09-01T17:40:13Z")
Not fair. From what I gather, he is not justifying it, his point is that Trump supporters should be expected to react to words with violence. It’s more of a warning. Don’t say anything that could upset a Trump supporter, as you know to expect violent “repercussions” for it. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1188 "2020-09-01T17:47:22Z")
Ok, so the guy yelling profanities committed assault and the guy that punched him committed battery. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1189 "2020-09-01T17:49:44Z")
Could come from it yes, not glorifying it, not excusing it but to go into a confrontation thinking “that won’t happen to me”, you might be wrong. Trump has/had nothing to do with it. It’s the same mindset with pedestrians thinking, “I’ll go block traffic”. Yes, you have the right of way but it won’t help you much when you are dead. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1190 "2020-09-01T17:50:17Z")
Nope. To commit assault you have to be legitimately threatening. I get that trump supporters are giant babies, but calling out “fuck you” to a passing person still isn’t assault. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1191 "2020-09-01T17:54:52Z")
Whether it was or wasn’t makes no difference. It’s irrelevant to the point I made. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1192 "2020-09-01T17:56:26Z")
The point being that trumpists are rabid animals that can be expected to attack people at the slightest provocation? And thus people should always behave very deferentially to Trump supporters in order to avoid provoking violent retaliation? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1193 "2020-09-01T18:01:05Z")
Begbert2, are you being argumentative on purpose or just obtuse? IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRUMP You, as in YOU, should be ready for people to possibly react violently to you screaming obscenities at them. Period. FULL STOP This furthers my point that all civil discourse in this country is well on it’s way to being gone. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1194 "2020-09-01T18:05:40Z")
If you are trying to assert that _everybody_ is going to up and punch you in the face if you say “fuck you” to them, then I’m going to have to call bullshit. It is certainly not the case that even the _average_ person is such an out-of-control rage beast that they will respond to mildly rude words with a physical attack. Which means that if we’re going to be making broad rules that assume this behavior, we have to be clear about which groups we’re applying these rules to. Trumpists appear to be one. Would you care to suggest other groups that have such aggressive natures? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1195 "2020-09-01T18:06:08Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > You, as in YOU, should be ready for people to possibly react violently to you screaming obscenities at them. Period. FULL STOP Begbert2 … Try again. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1196 "2020-09-01T18:06:44Z")
Try again WHAT? I made a clear and factual point - that the vast majority of people aren’t out-of-control criminal fucktards. Your position relies on the assumption that they are. How are you planning to dig yourself out of this hole? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1197 "2020-09-01T18:07:22Z")
I was quoting it since you had trouble parsing it the first time. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1198 "2020-09-01T18:09:41Z")
Ah, the old “My argument isn’t stupid; you just don’t understand it” canard. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1199 "2020-09-01T18:11:09Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > To be pedantic, a punch is not “assault”, it is “battery”. Assault is merely getting up in someone else’s business. Quite frankly, walking into a crowd of potentially hostile people wearing MAGA/III%/PP gear could realistically be viewed as assault, just as much as yelling in someone’s face. No. If you are talking about old common law, or tort definitions, you’d be OK, but in many jurisdictions the criminal laws that apply to punching or otherwise making injurious contact with another are called assault. If it happened in Portland, if it was injurious, it was some degree of assault. (If it was merely offensive contact, it was harassment.) ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1200 "2020-09-01T18:39:11Z")
You’re right, they aren’t but one WAS and i guess he wasn’t ready for the punch. Moral of the story: If spouting obscenities might result in you getting punched in the face, maybe check and make sure that it’s worth it. Someone is digging alright, but it isn’t me in the hole ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1201 "2020-09-01T18:40:28Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > If you are trying to assert that _everybody_ is going to up and punch you in the face if you say “fuck you” to them, then I’m going to have to call bullshit No, he is trying to say that if you drive by a bunch of people (who are already angry about something) yelling “Fuck you!”, then there is a good chance that someone will react negatively and physically. You shouldn’t be shocked that if you’re being combative, someone will escalate. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1202 "2020-09-01T18:57:01Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > Somebody never heard the old “sticks and stones” thingy growing up. The old “sticks and stones” thingy is massively wrong; at least, unless considered purely as something to chant back to harassers on the playground. Having said that: proper “repercussions” to nasty behavior in the form of words are themselves in the form of words. Physical violence is an escalation, and is an illegal response for good reason. > [@Kearsen1](#): > > It’s the same mindset with pedestrians thinking, “I’ll go block traffic”. Yes, you have the right of way but it won’t help you much when you are dead. If they get hit because they walked out in front of a vehicle that couldn’t stop in time, that’s not volitional human violence, that’s the laws of physics. If somebody deliberately drives a vehicle into protestors blocking the road, when the driver could have stopped or avoided them, that’s attempted murder. Or, possibly, actual murder. > [@Kearsen1](#): > > You, as in YOU, should be ready for people to possibly react violently to you screaming obscenities at them. Period. FULL STOP No. You shouldn’t have to. begbert2 is correct. Nearly anybody, these days, is capable of hearing ‘fuck you’ directed at them without reacting with violence. I don’t know how the ones who aren’t capable of restraining themselves ever get through high school. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1203 "2020-09-01T19:08:15Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I don’t know how the ones who aren’t capable of restraining themselves ever get through high school. - Trump does love the uneducated. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1204 "2020-09-01T19:15:10Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > If somebody deliberately drives a vehicle into protestors blocking the road, when the driver could have stopped or avoided them, that’s attempted murder. Or, possibly, actual murder. Although some of us remember what happened to Reginald Denny (L.A. riots) and might choose to plough through a road block from a not-totally-unreasonable fear of being dragged from one’s car and beaten. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638/1205 "2020-09-01T19:20:43Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > From the sounds of it, he did have it coming. If you are going to scream profanities in your mostly peaceful voices, there might be repercussions. Interesting defense. You should try that in court. Protip: don’t plan any long trips to the South Seas where you can’t get your deposit back. 🙄 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-black-bagging-people-in-portland/915638.md?page=61)