# Feds Close down 321 Studios makers of DVD copying software **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 4, 2004, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296 "2004-08-04T15:09:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/41 "2004-08-05T07:43:08Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > I sure would. Just like if there were millions of knife muggings, I would expect them to arrest the muggers, rather than banning knives. If it’s good enough for the music industry, it’s good enough for the movie industry too. What if people were using biochemical weapons or other WMDs? Would you still allow the proliferation of such weapons, and just arrest the people who _use_ them? ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/42 "2004-08-05T07:45:44Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > I understand that you want to make a backup, but if _other_ people are using the software to illegally profit from selling copies, shouldn’t they be allowed to stop those people? If you guys can prove to me that nobody ever used this software for pirating, then I’ll concede that it was stupid to disallow it. Couldn’t the same argument be used against cars? Could you prove that no one would ever misuse a car by speeding, driving while drunk or driving recklessly? Sure, there are differences… misuse of DVD X Copy leads to theft while misuse of motor vehicles leads to destruction of property and injuries that can be fatal. I have a terrible prejudice that makes it hard for me to feel bad about piracy. I don’t consider theft-by-piracy to be as serious as theft-by-stealing. While there’s a huge potential for piracy to cost the legitimate owners a lot in lost sales, I just can’t get as worked up about theft that doesn’t take a physical object. It’s ridiculous, but I don’t take copying and selling/giving away copies of DVDs/CDs as seriously as someone breaking into your house and stealing your DVDs or CDs. The difference is that after piracy, the victim hasn’t physically lost anything, they have just failed to gain a certain amount of profit, while after buglary the victim no longer has certain items and has to spend money to replace them. While the former crime costs the victim more than the latter crime, I find it easier to sympathise with the person who has a physical loss and knows exactly how much it costs them. I think that’s why piracy is perceived as being such a minor crime by the public in general. There’s also a sense that they’re making out that they’ve lost more than they really have. Say someone makes and gives away 1000 copies of a current chart-topping CD. In theory, the record company has lost 1000 sales due to piracy. What they never acknowledge is that many people who took a free copy of the album would never have gone out and bought it. Also, some of those who got the free album would listen to it, decide they like it and buy themselves a genuine copy. You can’t say “1000 illegal copies were distributed, costing the company $20,000 in sales” because 1. it hasn’t required any additional outlay of cash by the record company 2. You can’t be sure that the 1000 illegal copies represent 1000 lost potential sales 3. You can’t tell if the distribution of those copies resulted in sales to people who hadn’t been exposed to the album before. Don’t think I’m excusing it. I know it’s illegal. I just don’t think it’s always immoral, and I have a hard time being sympathetic when the actions of those fighting to protect their copyrighted material interfere with my ability to backup copies of my legitimately purchased disks. It’s always a bad move to piss off the people who’ve done the right thing and handed over their hard earned cash. No one can fault them pursing those who are profiting from piracy, but they need to find a way to target those specific individuals rather that tarring everyone with the same brush. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/43 "2004-08-05T07:44:47Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > I find it far more interesting that in MY example, a person who has written an article supporting YOUR side of the argument has nonetheless conceded that you don’t have a right to a backup copy, than YOUR example where a group vehemently committed to your side of the argument makes a predictable statement along partisan lines. The quote in the article is simply based on ignorance: > [@](#): > > The emphasis on backup copies in these arguments is misleading, in my opinion. To me, the right to a backup could imply some sort of obligation on a store’s part to replace a CD or DVD that was somehow damaged after I bought it–which I don’t believe is appropriate. The fair use right to make backup copies has _nothing at all_ to do with demanding a replacement copy from a retail store. The same flawed logic would imply that since I have the right to bear arms, I can demand a free gun from a gun shop, or that since I have the right to freedom of the press, I can demand a free printer from Best Buy. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/44 "2004-08-05T07:55:11Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > What if people were using biochemical weapons or other WMDs? Would you still allow the proliferation of such weapons, and just arrest the people who use them? Now that’s just silly. The difference between a knife and a Weapon of Mass Destruction is that a WMD takes out a large group of people at once. For the comparison between DVD X Copy and a frickin’ nuclear bomb to have any merit, DVD X Copy would have to be light years ahead of any other DVD copying software, able to copy and distribute hundreds or thousands of pirated movies per day. But DVD X Copy isn’t. It’s consumer level software that copies one disc at a time, and is totally unsuited for any mass piracy operation. Chinese piracy lords aren’t going to sit there feeding in one blank DVD-R at a time, clicking through each step of the friendly wizard for each disc. They’d use more sophisticated, more flexible software to create an image once, then use different software to burn hundreds of copies at once - **if** they used DVD burners at all. To really produce pirated discs in any mass quantity, it’d be more efficient to slip a few bucks to the operators at a DVD manufacturing plant, and just press the copies. (The term “Hong Kong silver” refers to pirated discs made that way. They’re silver, like any other pressed CD, instead of blue, green, or gold like burned discs.) ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/45 "2004-08-05T08:21:21Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > Now that’s just silly. Yeah, and so’s your knife analogy. That’s my point. You’ve selected something that has a plethora of other uses - cutting food, opening packages, arts and crafts, etc., and you’re comparing it to software that has but ONE use - defeating copy protection. Not a valid analogy. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/46 "2004-08-05T08:24:01Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > But DVD X Copy isn’t. It’s consumer level software that copies one disc at a time, and is totally unsuited for any mass piracy operation. > > Chinese piracy lords aren’t going to sit there feeding in one blank DVD-R at a time, clicking through each step of the friendly wizard for each disc. They’d use more sophisticated, more flexible software to create an image once, then use different software to burn hundreds of copies at once - **if** they used DVD burners at all. So why are they not allowed to go after the Chinese piracy lords AND the eBay/flea market guys? Both hurt sales. ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/47 "2004-08-05T08:24:33Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > The fair use right to make backup copies has _nothing at all_ to do with demanding a replacement copy from a retail store. The same flawed logic would imply that since I have the right to bear arms, I can demand a free gun from a gun shop, or that since I have the right to freedom of the press, I can demand a free printer from Best Buy. Not exactly. When you pay 20 bucks for a music CD, your money goes for music that is contained in it, not the CD itself. The CD plus packaging is very cheap, costs maybe 2 dollars to produce. That’s why you can get a replacement. Since you have already paid for the music, all they lose is 2 bucks. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/48 "2004-08-05T08:28:28Z")
> [@cazzle](#): > > Couldn’t the same argument be used against cars? I don’t know - where are you guys coming up with these wacky analogies? Cars haven’t been banned. If they were, maybe we’d be having the same discussion about them. Otherwise, how is it analagous? > [@](#): > > I have a terrible prejudice that makes it hard for me to feel bad about piracy. I don’t consider theft-by-piracy to be as serious as theft-by-stealing. That’s _your_ bias; hardly the industries’ problem. ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/49 "2004-08-05T08:29:41Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Yeah, and so’s your knife analogy. That’s my point. You’ve selected something that has a plethora of other uses - cutting food, opening packages, arts and crafts, etc., and you’re comparing it to software that has but ONE use - defeating copy protection. Not a valid analogy. This reminds me of all those gun debates. _“Guns have no legitimate use. They only kill people”_ :rolleyes: There IS a legitimate use for that software: to make backup copies in case the original gets damaged And in case you wonder, I am pro-gun ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/50 "2004-08-05T10:03:33Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > This reminds me of all those gun debates. _“Guns have no legitimate use. They only kill people”_ :rolleyes: > > There IS a legitimate use for that software: to make backup copies in case the original gets damaged > > And in case you wonder, I am pro-gun Let’s not go there, o.k.? Let’s back away from the gun argument, and take another stab at what Mr2001 said: > [@](#): > > I sure would. Just like if there were millions of knife muggings, I would expect them to arrest the muggers, rather than banning knives. See, what he’s saying here is that we must go after the _criminal_ rather than the _means_ that the criminal uses to commit the crime, right? He’s trying to use this bizarre “knife” analogy to make the general point. Well if he can do that, then I can point out that sometimes we _do_ go after the means. Which is why I asked him if we ought to allow proliferation of biochemical weapons. After all, if we are going to adopt this ultra-strict, “you can only go after the person and not the means” philosophy, then it would apply to the biochemical weapons. The result is absurd, but only because the logic of the “knife” analogy is absurd. Got it? And if Mr2001 is going to try to deconstruct _my_ analogy by saying, “well, those weapons kill more people”, then I can certainly deconstruct _his_ analogy by pointing out that dvd-burning software is not a knife, or that knives have many more uses than dvd-burning software, or whatever difference I decide to find between the two. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/51 "2004-08-05T10:12:07Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > Not exactly. When you pay 20 bucks for a music CD, your money goes for music that is contained in it, not the CD itself. The CD plus packaging is very cheap, costs maybe 2 dollars to produce. That’s why you can get a replacement. Since you have already paid for the music, all they lose is 2 bucks. Not really; you’re not factoring in the original investment in the technology. To say a CD costs 2 dollars to produce is misleading. There is an immense amount of R&D and investment in equipment behind it. Another example would be a computer chip. Technically, it doesn’t cost much to produce, but that’s only because of years and years of R&D, and honing the manufacturing process so that it’s cost effective. The cost of the previous research is built into the price of the chip. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/52 "2004-08-05T10:13:16Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Yeah, and so’s your knife analogy. That’s my point. You’ve selected something that has a plethora of other uses - cutting food, opening packages, arts and crafts, etc., and you’re comparing it to software that has but ONE use - defeating copy protection. If DVD X Copy only has one use, then so does a knife. Knives are only good for cutting. What’s that you say? It’s OK to cut some things? Hmm. It’s OK to defeat copy protection in some cases, too. > [@](#): > > So why are they not allowed to go after the Chinese piracy lords AND the eBay/flea market guys? Both hurt sales. Who said they aren’t? It’s the private individuals, using this software to back up their own DVDs for safekeeping, who they shouldn’t go after. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/53 "2004-08-05T10:18:42Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > Not exactly. When you pay 20 bucks for a music CD, your money goes for music that is contained in it, not the CD itself. The CD plus packaging is very cheap, costs maybe 2 dollars to produce. That’s why you can get a replacement. Since you have already paid for the music, all they lose is 2 bucks. We’re talking about getting a replacement from a retail store. It may only cost a couple bucks for the label to manufacture the disc, but the retailer would lose a lot more than that. Personally, I think the label _should_ send out replacement discs if they’re going to prevent consumers from making their own backups. But that’s a different argument. The point I was trying to get at is that allowing consumers to make backups at their own expense is entirely different from forcing retailers (or even the label) to give out replacement discs. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/54 "2004-08-05T10:37:40Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > After all, if we are going to adopt this ultra-strict, “you can only go after the person and not the means” philosophy, then it would apply to the biochemical weapons. The result is absurd, but only because the logic of the “knife” analogy is absurd. Of course you get absurd results when you try to cram an extraordinary situation into a simple rule of thumb. I didn’t say we should _always_ focus solely on the person committing an act and never consider regulating the tools he uses for it, no matter what. There are some times when it’s appropriate to go after the means: chemical warheads are a different class of weapons from knives or handguns, they have vastly different uses, and they present a vastly different threat to bystanders. DVD X Copy, on the other hand, is nowhere near extraordinary. It’s the modern equivalent of a two-deck VCR, one that goes out of its way to be _less_ useful for pirates. You don’t ban all VCRs just because some people might use them to copy tapes. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/55 "2004-08-05T10:43:48Z")
OK, now I’m doing it too… sorry. This is my last post in a row, I swear. > [@blowero](#): > > Not really; you’re not factoring in the original investment in the technology. To say a CD costs 2 dollars to produce is misleading. There is an immense amount of R&D and investment in equipment behind it. Are you suggesting that CD manufacturers are still paying off their equipment? If you have a cite for that, I’d love to see it, but I’m under the impression that those plants were paid off long ago. Since, you know, CDs have been around for over 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/56 "2004-08-05T10:44:45Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > The quote in the article is simply based on ignorance: No, it’s a different opinion than yours. Just because people disagree with you does not mean they are ignorant. > [@](#): > > The fair use right to make backup copies has _nothing at all_ to do with demanding a replacement copy from a retail store. The same flawed logic would imply that since I have the right to bear arms, I can demand a free gun from a gun shop, or that since I have the right to freedom of the press, I can demand a free printer from Best Buy. That’s not the same logic at all. If you had a Star Trek replicator, and could use it to replicate guns, and demanded the right to replicate guns that are patented, then maybe it would be analagous. But the way you have presented it, it’s not analagous. There simply is no analogue for guns, because copyright law has nothing to do with guns. It’s not just the fact that you have a right to own a DVD, it’s that you claim a right to own a _copy_ of the DVD, so unless you refer to a right to own a _copy_ of a gun, the analogy is nonsensical. Think about it - you’re claiming a right to a backup copy. In essence, you are saying that the company is obligated to allow you to have another working copy if the original breaks. So yes, it is _very much_ like demanding a replacement copy. Since you like gun analogies, you wouldn’t get a free replacement gun if you tried to saw the barrel off and ruined it, would you? So why should you be entitled to a new DVD if you destroy the original? ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/57 "2004-08-05T10:47:57Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > OK, now I’m doing it too… sorry. This is my last post in a row, I swear. > Are you suggesting that CD manufacturers are still paying off their equipment? If you have a cite for that, I’d love to see it, but I’m under the impression that those plants were paid off long ago. Since, you know, CDs have been around for over 20 years. I didn’t know one was required to drop the price to actual cost as soon as the original investment was paid off. I thought the idea was that the profit was deferred to the future. Does that cut off at 20 years? ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/58 "2004-08-05T10:56:12Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Think about it - you’re claiming a right to a backup copy. In essence, you are saying that the company is obligated to allow you to have another working copy if the original breaks. Sure. Note: “allow [me] to have another working copy”. They don’t have to _give_ me one. They don’t have to tell me how to make one. They just have to refrain from interfering. > [@](#): > > So yes, it is _very much_ like demanding a replacement copy. No. Not at all. If I make a backup myself, I’m using my own time and money to do it. The retailer, distributor, and manufacturer don’t have to lift a finger to help me; they don’t even have to know that I’m doing it. > [@](#): > > I didn’t know one was required to drop the price to actual cost as soon as the original investment was paid off. Is this related to something I said? You quoted me, but what you wrote after it doesn’t seem to have anything to do with my post. Quick recap: You said that the estimated cost of $2 to make a CD is misleading because it ignores the price of the equipment used to make them. I said that the equipment has already paid for itself, implying that it doesn’t make sense to include it in the cost of making CDs today. You’re now apparently saying that there’s no need to drop the price because of that, but since I didn’t mention dropping any prices, I don’t know what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/59 "2004-08-05T11:17:15Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Not really; you’re not factoring in the original investment in the technology. To say a CD costs 2 dollars to produce is misleading. There is an immense amount of R&D and investment in equipment behind it. Another example would be a computer chip. Technically, it doesn’t cost much to produce, but that’s only because of years and years of R&D, and honing the manufacturing process so that it’s cost effective. The cost of the previous research is built into the price of the chip. Actually, even the 2 dollars is a stretch. CDs cost much much less than that. AOL would have gone bust after distributing all those junk CDs. And the chip manufacturing is a bad example. Each time Intel wants to make a new chip, they have to change their whole production line. They can’t reuse equipment. CD manufacturing isn’t like that. The same machine that created Celine Dion’s CD will be used for the new Metallica CD. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296/60 "2004-08-05T14:01:55Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > But didn’t we already establish that the splash screen is easily defeated? Would not the serial number insertion _also_ be easily defeated? Uh No. In order to remove 321 warnings you need 3 that’s THREE other programs to do it. Then you need to step by step remove the files, THEN you need to reburn the modified DVD data. You have to do this FOR EVERY DVD you decide to copy. It’s not a modification of the program, but of the individual DVD’s information. It’s ONLY good for that one DVD. If you copy Kill Bill 1, you then have repeat the steps for Kill Bill 2. Sound simple? In order to make profit in pirating, you need volume and as least time possible, there is NO profit in spending time stripping out code, then reburning DVDs, then doing the steps all over again…for only ONE disc at a time. That doesn’t sound easy to me and certainly not easy for Mrs. Smith who doesn’t even know how to reformat her harddrive. Does it sound easy to you? What’s the point, when you can avoid this altogether by not using DVDXCopy? My point is, if you already know how to use those 3 other programs, you wouldn’t be using DVDXCopy to pirate discs. It’s not designed for that and goes out of it’s way to make it difficult and high risk to use it. Which is most likely why the people you cited, GOT CAUGHT. It simply isn’t worth the time and effort to it and real risk of getting caught as 321 have other protections which have been mentioned in place, to discourage using it’s product that way. > [@](#): > > Where is the word “professional” in there? But when I point out that pirates do indeed use DVD X Copy, you change the argument to “Oh, uh, well…professional pirates don’t do it.” As though there were such thing as a professional pirate. Debating you is like trying to nail a turd to the wall. WTF? I have **repeatedly** thoughtout, said that people who pirate for living, would not use this program…what else would they be besides professionals? Why would the Feds close down a program designed, DESIGNED for consumers unless they have fears of mass piracy? I said, \*…"The pirate who can, wouldn’t bother using this software, as it is for the homeuser and lacks the features that a professional would use… " \* Did you miss this? or this…_"However it was designed for the home user, not the serious copier and certainly not anyone who pirates for a living…_ I also acknowlegded that the software can be used for pirating, \*“Of course it can be used for pirating, however your assumption that most people know they are buying pirated materials is in error. They don’t and small time eBay pirates who are obvious about what they are doing, soon find themselves with a cease and desist notice.” \* Did you miss that? Unlike you, I realize that this program was the best chance the “Industry” had to have a means to track, trace and police, when and if the average user decided to sell copies on eBay or flea markets, as the DVD ITSELF had built in and traceable safeguards. Where I have I changed my argument, so **Debating me is like trying to nail a turd to the wall.**? Explain and I’ll clarify my position. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feds-close-down-321-studios-makers-of-dvd-copying-software/258296.md?page=4)