# Feel the #extortion Bernie has planned **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 28, 2016, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443 "2016-03-28T07:09:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/261 "2016-03-31T13:55:31Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Missed the edit window. > > I don’t really care to snipe back at **camille** specifically, but it does occur to me to wonder if other Bernie backers endorse that kind of slightly oblique but pretty transparent shaming of the poor (although we are actually at nearly double the poverty line, we feel reasonably poor a lot of the time). I’ve heard that kind of snideness many times from conservatives, but it’s not a good look from an ostensible progressive. She considers you similar to those black folks who just aren’t bright enough to vote for their best interests. President Bernie will wave his wand & magically convince Congress to pass all his excellent ideas! ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/262 "2016-03-31T14:41:26Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > This thread has gotten too dizzying for me … > > It is apparently, to some here, unreasonable to interpret answering a question about what you, personally, would ask for, if not in terms of a position then in term of policy, with your complete list of all you want, and finishing it with “those are some of the demands we would make” as being demands his team would make. Thanks for at least correcting “the demands I would make” to what he actually said (“the demands we would make”). It’s no less reasonable to interpret Sanders’ answers to both questions as referring to what Clinton would have to do in order to win the votes of the progressive movement. He explicitly frames his answer in those terms, and makes no reference to endorsing, or not endorsing, Clinton (which is not something he was asked about, notably). Instead, in typical Sanders fashion, he eschews the horse-race discussion to talk about the issues that are important to progressives. You’re free to assume the most negative interpretation possible of Sanders’ words in order to craft a stick to beat him with; others are equally free to call you out on it. > [@DSeid](#): > > Asking a politician on a political television show about a statement they have made and giving the politician a chance to either verify that they meant it, to walk it back, or to clarify any misinterpretation, is stupid horse race politics. Not answering those questions and instead returning to your talking points, be it “I will make America great again!” or “Campaign Finance!” is the apparently the appropriate response. Sanders answered both questions. > [@DSeid](#): > > Who am I describing in the following: > > A candidate enters a party’s presidential nomination race not clearly ever having identified with the party or having strongly supported it in the past, is viewed with suspicion by others within its mainstream operation, gets little support from others elected under that party’s banner, does very well based on the anger and frustration of a particular large but still minority segment of voters, especially independents, either states explicitly or implies that the competition is dishonest, an establishment tool, and that the whole establishment needs to blown up, states he would do things that he in fact would not have the power to do but is red meat to his core supporters, explicitly refuses to commit to supporting the nominee of the party if it is not him, answers questions about things he’s said with “there’s [this issue going on in the world - fill it in] and you are asking about that?” and has some not insignificant number of supporters explicitly stating that they might not vote if their candidate is not the nominee? > > a. Trump > b. Sanders > c. Both of the above. > d. Have some chocolate chip cookies. Hillary will stay home and bake them. When has Sanders “explicitly refused to commit to supporting the nominee of the party if it is not him”? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/263 "2016-03-31T14:43:36Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > She considers you similar to those black folks who just aren’t bright enough to vote for their best interests. President Bernie will wave his wand & magically convince Congress to pass all his excellent ideas! And all those laws and programs will magically fix cultural issues around socio-economic status, sexism and racism. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/264 "2016-03-31T15:12:09Z")
And no one will ever die, for God-King Sanders will transform us into beings of pure energy, peace, and love! Do I win the straw-man contest? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/265 "2016-03-31T16:21:40Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Thanks for at least correcting “the demands I would make” to what he actually said (“the demands we would make”). … I’m not going to search through the whole video again. I accept that he may have said that and that to me a candidate saying “We” in the context of answering a “what will _you_ ask for?” question is the standard royal we of politician speak and of their team. You think he is answering a “you” question and meaning something else? Fine. You heard it that way. You are free to filter and interpret what he clearly said in the least unappealing way possible . And yes I am free call you out on it. And here I guess to say “Bwahahaha” as a meaningful contribution: BWAHAHAHA! 🙂 > [@](#): > > … When has Sanders “explicitly refused to commit to supporting the nominee of the party if it is not him”? In the Chuck Todd interview where he was asked explicitly, more than one time, if there would be conditions for his support of Clinton and explicitly refused to answer the question, refused, when asked, to make any such commitment to support her without having demands met: “… it’s too early to talk about that …” The silliness of the evasions here is getting the point that Bill’s old “what the meaning of is is …” should start to be called his having been Sandersesque! Again, there is a reason that H.R. Clinton was never asked that question in '08: there was never any question in anyone’s minds that she would support Obama if he won. The strength and magnitude of her support and effort was amazing and perhaps more than expected, (certainly more than I had expected as an Obama supporter) but her support was a given. With Sanders there IS reason to question whether or not he will. He is not someone who has identified as a Democrat; he has explicitly not. His supporters and detractors alike both include those who think he has no allegiance to anything other than the principles of what he calls democratic socialism and advancing them, perhaps at any cost, with the possible exception of compromise. Some of his supporters have stated explicitly that they would see his support of Clinton as a betrayal to the revolution for which he, in their minds, stands. He was asked for the same reason that Trump was asked, and that in the other GOP candidates are being asked now. Because enough people are unsure what the answer is. Because some non-zero number are wavering about whether or not they will indeed vote Clinton (hypothetically assuming she is the nominee) or stay home, and would be influenced by both his support and the perceived strength of that support. Some of his supporters believe that using Tea Party approaches and threatening, even delivering, on staying home, if they do not get what they feel are adequate concessions after having lost, is a good idea. That advancing the agenda is all that matters at any potential cost. I have said elsewhere in this forum and state it again here: that to me is extremism and such extremism must be identified as such and vilified as such. No, they do not owe anything to anyone but there are consequences of even passive-aggressive hostility. In this case three I can think of … One possibility is of course the improbable Trump or Cruz win which could have been prevented. (“Not _my_ fault that the rest of you wouldn’t do it my way and choose _my_ ideal candidate.”) The second is in the case of a narrow Clinton win. In that case the likely prospect is that those items of Sanders’ agenda that are not shared by Clinton will be diminished as she will, out of necessity, need to appeal to a greater degree to disaffected GOP-leaners to win and compromise more with GOP Congresscritters and there is less of a chance to have the wave election and mandate that strengthens the left of center position. The third is in the case of an overwhelming Clinton win despite the lack of Sanders core supporters - in that case they have shown they are of no matter and are owed nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/266 "2016-03-31T16:22:00Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > So it’s “betrayal” for them to support the candidate who got the majority of votes from, you know, actual voters?!? Seriously? Super delegates should vote for the candidate who won their state’s caucus. Wouldn’t mind them voting in proportion to the candidates based on what percentage of the state voted/caucused for which candidate. Does this make super delegates pointless? Yes, I hope so. I don’t think they should exist. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/267 "2016-03-31T16:22:43Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > When has Sanders “explicitly refused to commit to supporting the nominee of the party if it is not him”? I don’t think he has done so. As said above, both candidates are behaving much better than their supporters. Sanders in November: > [@](#): > > Yes, we do agree on a number of issues, and by the way, on her worst day, Hillary Clinton will be an infinitely better candidate and President than the Republican candidate on his best day. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/268 "2016-03-31T16:27:22Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I don’t think he has done so. As said above, both candidates are behaving much better than their supporters. > > Sanders in November: Yup, that was his tone in November. He has changed it since. Again in Flint Clinton went there, saying the same thing about the gulf between the two of them is minor compared to what we see on the GOP side and set him up to say it again, and he pointedly did not and instead implied that Clinton was owned by Big Money. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/269 "2016-03-31T16:40:05Z")
Susan Sarandon exemplifies what his current tone helps foster, as discussed [here by Charles Blow](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/31/opinion/campaign-stops/bernie-or-bust-is-bonkers.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0). > [@](#): > > When Hayes asked Sarandon whether Sanders’s supporters would vote for Hillary Clinton if Clinton won the Democratic nomination, this exchange followed: > > SARANDON: I think Bernie probably would encourage people because he doesn’t have any ego. I think a lot of people are, sorry, I can’t bring myself to do that. > > HAYES: How about you personally? > > SARANDON: I don’t know. I’m going to see what happens. > > HAYES: Really? > > SARANDON: Really. > > HAYES: I cannot believe as you’re watching the, if Donald Trump… > > SARANDON: Some people feel Donald Trump will bring the revolution immediately if he gets in then things will really, you know, explode. > > HAYES: You’re saying the Leninist model of… > > SARANDON: Some people feel that. … > > … What was Sarandon talking about with her coy language? “Bring the revolution”? Exactly what kind of revolution? “Explode”? Was the purpose to present this as a difficult but ultimately positive development? > > The comments smacked of petulance and privilege. > > No member of an American minority group — whether ethnic, racial, queer-identified, immigrant, refugee or poor — would (or should) assume the luxury of uttering such a imbecilic phrase, filled with lust for doom. … ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/270 "2016-03-31T16:42:41Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Susan Sarandon exemplifies what his current tone helps foster I don’t think either camp wants candidates judged by the quality of their supporters’ arguments and statements. Because dayum. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/271 "2016-03-31T16:48:54Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I’m not going to search through the whole video again. I accept that he may have said that and that to me a candidate saying “We” in the context of answering a “what will _you_ ask for?” question is the standard royal we of politician speak and of their team. You think he is answering a “you” question and meaning something else? Fine. You heard it that way. You are free to filter and interpret what he clearly said in the least unappealing way possible . And yes I am free call you out on it. > > And here I guess to say “Bwahahaha” as a meaningful contribution: BWAHAHAHA! 🙂 He 100% said “we”. And yes, the second question in that exchange was “What are the policy positions you would want?”…but Sanders had answered the first question by framing it in terms of the progressive movement, as opposed his personal leadership, and I think he answered the second question in that same context, and it’s never presented as a demand or condition for Sanders’ personal support. His remarks to Chuck Todd seem to back that up, though of course it came later. > [@DSeid](#): > > ]In the Chuck Todd interview where he was asked explicitly, more than one time, if there would be conditions for his support of Clinton and explicitly refused to answer the question, refused, when asked, to make any such commitment to support her without having demands met: “… it’s too early to talk about that …” This may or may not shock you, but I don’t read it that way. He explicitly rejects Todd’s suggestion that his support for Clinton is conditional on the policy positions he laid out in the Young Turks interview. He says “No it’s not” and “No, no” to that idea, and Todd keeps asking anyway for reasons that are not clear, and then Sanders reinforces that he’s in it to win it, and then the interview is over. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/272 "2016-03-31T16:53:37Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Super delegates should vote for the candidate who won their state’s caucus. . Caucuses are un-democratic. It gives the vote only to those who can take all day off, not have to work or raise kids or … Note that in the popular vote, Hilary has 8,924,821 votes and Bernie only 6,397,980. with Clinton leading by +2,526,841… Yes, Superdelegates are also ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/273 "2016-03-31T16:59:57Z")
Yes, Superdelegates are also undemocratic, but caucuses are just as bad. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/274 "2016-03-31T17:04:34Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Universal college education would be great. But we have a root problem to solve first - we only graduate about 80% of students from high school. Disproportionately, black and poor kids don’t graduate. That contributes to the racism problem we have as well as the issues we have with poverty. Its more important that we get kids through high school than we pay to have upper middle class kids graduate from State College because their parents were too busy buying German performance cars, vacationing in Hawaii and paying for traveling soccer to save for college. Total agreement. It’s such a complex problem, and so far no one has been able to come up with solutions that really work. The whole quota thing has been proven to have more negative than positive effects. > [@Dangerosa](#): > > I really want Universal Health Care - its embarrassing that we don’t have it - but I don’t want the huge job loss that would come with a big bang solution - that would be economically disastrous. So I think we need more health insurance standardization and overhaul first - cut some of those jobs through expansion of government programs, process improvement and regulation - let those people enter the job market as a stream, not a sudden breaking of a dam. The new coding system implemented last year made things worse, not better. Costs need to be controlled (from insurance to pharmaceuticals to other related industries), which is a huge Gordian knot in itself primarily dealing with free trade. Once again, an issue that isn’t amenable to simple solutions. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/275 "2016-03-31T17:09:41Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > This may or may not shock you, but I don’t read it that way. He explicitly rejects Todd’s suggestion that his support for Clinton is conditional on the policy positions he laid out in the Young Turks interview. He says “No it’s not” and “No, no” to that idea, and Todd keeps asking anyway for reasons that are not clear, and then Sanders reinforces that he’s in it to win it, and then the interview is over. No it does not shock me but you are imagining things. Did you say that you would make demands? No that is a misunderstanding, I did not exactly say that. WILL your support depend on demands being met, if you lose? Refusal to answer x2. You choose to to not understand the difference between the first and the second question. That says something about you and your filter but the meaning is very clear. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/276 "2016-03-31T17:12:01Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I don’t think either camp wants candidates judged by the quality of their supporters’ arguments and statements. Because dayum. Yet the mindset is implicit in the self-chosen identification of “Bernie or Bust.” He has chosen to change his path from that November tone to one that fosters that mindset. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/277 "2016-03-31T17:20:38Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yet the mindset is implicit in the self-chosen identification of “Bernie or Bust.” > > He has chosen to change his path from that November tone to one that fosters that mindset. You’ve claimed that no one would have asked such a question in 2008 of Hillary Clinton because it was so obvious she would support Obama. But tons of Clinton supporters in 2008 said the same thing. They weren’t going to vote for Obama. Was that Clinton’s fault? Did she have a “tone” that caused it? Or do people just get fired up and start acting like fools? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/278 "2016-03-31T17:21:47Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > No it does not shock me but you are imagining things. All I’m doing is referring to what was said, as opposing to making assumptions about hidden meanings. > [@DSeid](#): > > Did you say that you would make demands? No that is a misunderstanding, I did not exactly say that. > WILL your support depend on demands being met, if you lose? Refusal to answer x2. > > You choose to to not understand the difference between the first and the second question. That says something about you and your filter but the meaning is very clear. Sanders said “No” twice, to the question of whether there were parameters for his support, and to the question of whether he’d choose not to support Clinton if she didn’t back single-payer. I’m not going to fault the guy for saying “No” twice to the same question, then brushing it off when the same question is asked two more times, instead taking that time to emphasize that he plans on winning and mooting the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/279 "2016-03-31T17:29:25Z")
Sanders has real flaws as a candidate, in my opinion, not least of which is this: [ > [@](#): > > Host Rachel Maddow said rival Hillary Clinton has been fundraising for her campaign as well as the Democratic Party. Will the Sanders campaign begin this type of fundraising as well, Maddow asked. > > “We’ll see,” Sanders said. “Right now, our focus is on winning the nomination.” ]([Sanders: ‘We’ll See’ If I Will Fundraise For Down-Ballot Democrats (VIDEO) - TPM – Talking Points Memo](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/bernie-sanders-fundraise-down-ballot-democrats-maddow)) If anyone is ever curious why superdelegates aren’t supporting him, this is at least one reason why. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/280 "2016-03-31T18:20:25Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Sanders has real flaws as a candidate, in my opinion, not least of which is this: > > [ > > If anyone is ever curious why superdelegates aren’t supporting him, this is at least one reason why. No, that is not why. Sanders has always caucused with, campaigned for, and raised money for Democrats. Many of the people who have endorsed Clinton had no problem accepting money from him through the years. In fact, they try to use that fundraising against him since he has come out against this focus on big dollar fundraising. Very easy to google the info, but here are two [URL=“[http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/bernie-sanders-pac-funded-democratic-party-establishment-2304455](http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/bernie-sanders-pac-funded-democratic-party-establishment-2304455)”]recent]([Sanders: ‘We’ll See’ If I Will Fundraise For Down-Ballot Democrats (VIDEO) - TPM – Talking Points Memo](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/bernie-sanders-fundraise-down-ballot-democrats-maddow)) [articles](http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/05/politics/sanders-democratic-fundraisers/). They are not supporting him because he went against their plan to clear the path for HRC. With all this talk of what losing candidates demand, no one mentions that Obama not only tapped his donors to pay off HRC’s 2008 campaign debt, but to raise a cushion for this year’s campaign. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz - HRC’s 2008 co-chair - was given the position of DNC chair by Obama. HRC’s victory fund was planned and established well in advance of her announcing, and this was well known in the party. That fundraising was a clear signal to anyone else in the party considering a run. Why do you think no other major establishment Democrats decided to run this year? Maybe you agree with this type of thing; I know some party hacks who do, or accept it as SOP. Today HRC is in NY, hosted by Rep. Nita Lowey, who was shut out of the NY Senate run when HRC decided it was the perfect stepping stone to further her career. A lifelong NY Dem was passed over so a woman who had never held office, lived or paid taxes in NY could run for Moynihan’s Senate seat. Do you really believe the NY Dems were happy about that? But the Clinton machine was and is formidable, and you go against them at your peril. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443.md?page=15)