# Feel the #extortion Bernie has planned **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 28, 2016, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443 "2016-03-28T07:09:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/321 "2016-04-01T04:02:52Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > But his fundamental argument is that the system is no good, that it’s corrupt and oligarchic, and needs to be overthrown through “political revolution”, including masses of young people taking to the streets. What does he ever say that speaks to the stability of a 227 year old democracy? > > I bet at least half the Bernheads here, whether they’ll admit it or not, read that Robespierre bio and thought “man, that dude was awesome…I hope Bernie \*is \*like him!” ?? His argument has nothing to do with the French revolution man, c’mon ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/322 "2016-04-01T04:04:54Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Did you actually read those articles? > > Sanders was elected to Congress in 1988. No. He was still Mayor of Burlington in 1988. > [@](#): > > His fundraising _for_ other Democrats really began in earnest in 2012 (a far cry from “always”) and was for clear self-serving interests. You want a position of power? You work to help the rest of us. OTOH we Democrats lose the majority and you got bupkiss my democratic socialist friend. That year the PAC gets moving and raises a relatively modest amount but donates wisely, in close races of moderates. Per one of your cites: > > “Through the years”? The PAC has only been donating in modestly significant amounts in the 2012 and 2014 cycles! “Through the years” … oy. Well it is literally true in a Sandersesque way. Your quote from one of my cites conveniently cut off the beginning of the paragraph where it says: > [@](#): > > Sanders’ committee, a so-called leadership PAC named Progressive Voters of America, has been primarily funded by labor unions and liberal ideological groups. The PAC has given $338,000 to Democratic candidates and groups since 2007. In recent years, its contributions have ticked up and shifted toward the more moderate wing of the Democratic Party. My emphasis. This funding has been since he was elected to the Senate in 2007, and _increased_ when he was committee chair. Why did you leave that part out? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/323 "2016-04-01T04:13:30Z")
> [@camille](#): > > No. He was still Mayor of Burlington in 1988. > > Your quote from one of my cites conveniently cut off the beginning of the paragraph where it says: > > My emphasis. This funding has been since he was elected to the Senate in 2007, and _increased_ when he was committee chair. Why did you leave that part out? But what was he doing in 1789? ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/324 "2016-04-01T04:17:48Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > It’s like having a discussion with Trump … That’s your response to you misreading your own cite? Is that a sneaky way to accuse me of lying? WTF is your problem? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/325 "2016-04-01T04:39:05Z")
> [@camille](#): > > This funding has been since he was elected to the Senate in 2007, and _increased_ when he was committee chair. Why did you leave that part out? Because [$321K of what it spent was all in the 2014 year](http://us-campaign-committees.insidegov.com/l/36758/Progressive-Voters-of-America). Yes it gave a little bit in the 2008 and 2010 cycles. It only ramped up, “began in earnest” in 2012. If you go to OpenSecrets you will find that the amount given to Democratic Federal candidates in 2008 and 2010 _together_ was less than 65% of what it gave in 2012 let alone in 2014. But you are right, I misspoke, he ran and lost in '88 and won in 1990. I apologize for being two years off. He was in Congress for 16, not 18 years without raising money for any Democrats and, after the DSCC helped him win what had been the most expensive race in Vermont’s history, “his” PAC donated some relatively small amounts, beginning in the 2008 campaign, to other Democrats (and gained personal access to the Big Money funders that he bemoans), and, per your cite, ramped up in order to get a Chairmanship. The only period that he has facilitated reasonably significant amounts of money to Democrats was 2012 and 2014, and per your cite, was in order to get a Chairmanship. You want to portray that as “always” raising money for Democrats? Very Trumpian. And again, Sandersesque, of you. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/326 "2016-04-01T04:41:42Z")
You may not be lying but you are stating things that are blatantly untrue or minimally misleading. And even if true trite and irrelevant. No, I did not misread my cite. WTF is wrong with _you_? Don’t bother answering that. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/327 "2016-04-01T05:04:26Z")
Would anyone dispute this characterization: “Bernie Sanders only belatedly engaged in party building activities when he had clear quid pro quo benefits set immediately in front of him: a committee chairmanship, and access to email lists, which he exploited to raise far more money for himself than he ever has for the party or for other Democrats” ? ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/328 "2016-04-01T05:19:22Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > You may not be lying but you are stating things that are blatantly untrue or minimally misleading. And even if true trite and irrelevant. > > No, I did not misread my cite. > > WTF is wrong with _you_? > > Don’t bother answering that. Wow. In my previous experiences with you I would have thought this was beneath you. Apparently I was wrong. Your posts speak for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/329 "2016-04-01T05:37:35Z")
Yup. When insulted and attacked I do _sometimes_ respond in kind but not to any greater of degree. (It always cracks me up when I play back almost the exact thing someone wrote to me and it is responded to with great umbrage!) Shame that I am human that way. When a poster presents misleading and inaccurate information I call them on it, with cites from reputable sources (in this case CUNY itself) that demonstrate the falseness of what they are posting. I know, very unfair of me. The information in the CUNY cite is very clear. You are making statements that are untrue, others that are at best misleading, and more that are trite and immaterial to the discussion. That’s not an insult; it is a simple statement of what you are doing. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/330 "2016-04-01T05:55:45Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yup. When insulted and attacked I do _sometimes_ respond in kind but not to any greater of degree. (It always cracks me up when I play back almost the exact thing someone wrote to me and it is responded to with great umbrage!) Shame that I am human that way. > > When a poster presents misleading and inaccurate information I call them on it, with cites from reputable sources (in this case CUNY itself) that demonstrate the falseness of what they are posting. I know, very unfair of me. > > The information in the CUNY cite is very clear. > > You are making statements that are untrue, others that are at best misleading, and more that are trite and immaterial to the discussion. > > That’s not an insult; it is a simple statement of what you are doing. Unbelievable. Do you want to bet money that CUNY was free for matriculated students (who met grade requirements) from it’s founding until 1976? Keep in mind that my family and I attended these colleges. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/331 "2016-04-01T07:23:01Z")
Nah. I don’t want your money. Even excluding as students those who went at night and less than full-time matriculants it was not free. Even the relatively elite full-time day students (only a bit more than half of those who recieved college education at CUNY in those years), who paid no tuition, [were](http://traue.commons.gc.cuny.edu/volume-iii-issue-1-fall-2014/free-tuition-expansion-new-york-public-higher-education/) still “required to pay general or special fees such as for the use of the libraries or laboratories”. Again though “by 1957, when the municipal colleges expanded to include Hunter, Brooklyn, and Queens, 40 percent of the 60,000 students attending the municipal colleges paid tuition”. That article is long but it gives a very full sense of why the funding mechanisms of the time are _not_ something we should be wanting to emulate today. It was a first rate mess and was unable to provide education tuition-free other than to a small fraction of those who wanted college education. (And even them not fee-free.) Tuition-free education (albeit with infrastructure that was falling apart) for those with high enough grades/test scores/class ranks and everyone else pays full freight, even within the rest of the state public system, even within _the very same schools_, is not relevant to what Sanders proposes. Sorry that you are so uninformed of the history of where you and your family matriculated. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/332 "2016-04-01T08:00:11Z")
From **DSeid** ’s cite: First paragraph: > [@](#): > > November of 1965 was a tumultuous month in the history of City University of New York. On the 21st of the month, a prominent headline on the front page of the New York Times read “HEAD OF CITY UNIVERSITY, DEAN AND 2 COLLEGE CHIEFS QUIT IN FEUD WITH BOARD… Dispute Touched Off by Proposal for Tuition Plan.” Their resignations had come after two weeks of a controversy that erupted following the announcement of a plan to impose a $400 tuition for students enrolled at the City University of New York (CUNY), **which had traditionally been tuition-free.** Fifth Paragraph: > [@](#): > > The tradition of tuition-free CUNY was captured best by its founder, Townsend Harris, who proclaimed at the founding of the Free Academy (the predecessor to the city’s first municipal college) in 1847: “Open the doors to all—Let the children of the rich and the poor take their seats together and know of no distinction save that of industry, good conduct and intellect.”\*\* This mission was realized primarily through a free tuition policy that was maintained at the city-supported municipal colleges for 129 years. \*\* No further comment that would be allowed in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/333 "2016-04-01T09:06:07Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I would still like to hear from Bernie supporters as to how they can justify their man using the Democratic Party infrastructure and data but without having loyalty or responsibility to the party. Because he ran as a Democrat, and got enough Democrats to vote for him in the primaries and caucuses. The Democratic party chose him, not the other way around. That’s how it always works. What I don’t get is why you are caught up on this “loyalty” thing. What in the world does it have to do with politics? Why would anyone be loyal to someone who they politically disagree with? Let’s make it quite clear: your candidate did the exact same thing to Obama. She accepted her cabinet position in exchange for supporting him. Because that’s politics. You aren’t loyal to your opponents. That’s make absolutely no sense. Sanders will probably support Clinton as the least worst option, from his point of view. But he’s also going to be trying to push her as far as he can. He does this by putting out ideas of what people want, and then they agree, and then she does them, since that’s who she is–the one who tries to do whatever her focus groups say the people want. Sanders got what he got by being the candidate that a substantial portion of the Democrats support. Not because he promised any loyalty to the party. He has not said anything that would remotely make anyone think he is loyal to the party. But those Democrats gave him their support anyways. The idea that he now owes them what he never promised is ridiculous. The idea that he owes anyone who didn’t vote for him anything is ridiculous. So ridiculous that I’m still not sure you didn’t start with the premise of hating Sanders and then came up with the reasons afterwards. That would make far more sense than anything about “loyalty.” The progressive moral values are “harm reduction” and “fairness.” They do not in any way involve “loyalty.” That’s a conservative value. And not even the Republicans actually practice it–they just try to leverage it. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/334 "2016-04-01T09:17:26Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Because he ran as a Democrat, and got enough Democrats to vote for him in the primaries and caucuses. The Democratic party chose him, not the other way around. Incorrect. Remember how he always brags that “we started at two percent in the polls”? The party gave him access to their infrastructure and data way back then, and then he used it to work his way up to where he is now. \*Not \*the other way 'round. It was foolish and naive on the DNC’s part, and I certainly hope they are going to be better gatekeepers in the future. > [@BigT](#): > > So ridiculous that I’m still not sure you didn’t start with the premise of hating Sanders and then came up with the reasons afterwards. Nope. Before this election, and during its early stages, my attitude toward Sanders was that he was a quixotic gadfly, good for a chuckle or two, but ultimately harmless. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/335 "2016-04-01T11:12:25Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Incorrect. Remember how he always brags that “we started at two percent in the polls”? The party gave him access to their infrastructure and data way back then, and then he used it to work his way up to where he is now. \*Not \*the other way 'round. It was foolish and naive on the DNC’s part, and I certainly hope they are going to be better gatekeepers in the future. Do you have particular rules you would suggest, maybe rules designed to keep out bloodthirsty tyrants like Hitler and Sanders, or should they be gatekeepers in the sense of bouncers at clubs, who exclude people based on not liking their looks? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/336 "2016-04-01T11:58:47Z")
How about we start with excluding people who change their registration to Democratic within less than a year before the primaries start? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/337 "2016-04-01T12:27:33Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > But his fundamental argument is that the system is no good, that it’s corrupt and oligarchic, and needs to be overthrown through “political revolution”, including masses of young people taking to the streets. What does he ever say that speaks to the stability of a 227 year old democracy? > > I bet at least half the Bernheads here, whether they’ll admit it or not, read that Robespierre bio and thought “man, that dude was awesome…I hope Bernie \*is \*like him!” The revolution is a change in how political campaigns are funded, and enacting progressive policies…not mass violence. As for masses of people descending on Washington to demand reform, that’s part of democracy, not a threat to it; [and hardly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_on_Washington_for_Jobs_and_Freedom) anything [new.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_protest_marches_on_Washington,_D.C.) Were you alive in 1963? I can only imagine how appalled you must have been by Dr. King, and the March on Washington. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/338 "2016-04-01T12:50:18Z")
I would never vote for the Bern, but I still think that it’s good for the party and the country that he’s running and that some (not all) of his ideas are gaining some mainstream attention. I just happen to think that his ideas aren’t accepted by the mainstream of the general population and a general election with Sanders in it would prove that once and for all. What I take issue with is the fact that Sanders would support Sanders but not Clinton. It’s fine to say that Clinton isn’t their ideal candidate, but to effectively hand over the election to Ted Cruz would be a monumental disaster, and I’d have a hard time forgiving them for that, especially when, as others have rightly pointed out, it is their lack of voting support in past elections which have fueled republican obstructionism and forced progressives to compromise in a lot of cases. All of that being said, I think it’s also fair to question whether the DNC was wise in its attempted coronation of Clinton. I know she looked like a too-big-to-fail candidate 18 months ago, but the same was true in 2007. And she failed - miserably. Those dynamics didn’t really change, either. There was still a large chunk of the progressive vote waiting to be inspired by someone, and anyone with half a brain had to know that Hillary was never going to inspire them. Maybe they could have reached out to Cory Booker a little sooner, or Kamala Harris. Al Gore might have been worth a second look as well. They probably should have seen the chasm as a distinct possibility. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/339 "2016-04-01T14:07:09Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Remember, Sanders has said that he wants his movement to take to the streets, swarm on the Capitol, and demand change. Sounds an awful lot like the _sans-culottes_ to me. **If only!** Look up “hyperbole,” “metaphor,” and “figure of speech.” Damn, Sanders really **does** scare you, doesn’t he? It’s incomprehensible how he could, but he does. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/340 "2016-04-01T14:13:27Z")
[Clinton approves of her own supporters swarming the capital](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/22/clinton-supporters-to-swarm-dc-over-florida-and-michigan/comment-page-10/) when the process doesn’t go her way… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443.md?page=18)