# Feel the #extortion Bernie has planned **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 28, 2016, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443 "2016-03-28T07:09:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/501 "2016-04-04T02:17:11Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I was very clear that my intent (although I didn’t follow through) was to weaken a party that I think is the preeminent malevolent force in American politics. Is that what the Bernie voters think the Democratic Party is? Are they trying to weaken it because it’s evil? No, they’re trying to make it better by pulling leftward. A perfectly reasonable, legitimate, and beneficent goal. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/502 "2016-04-04T02:25:37Z")
But you won’t accept the the responsibility of implied reciprocity. You expect that if you pull it leftward, the more centrist voters will still come along and vote for your candidate in the general. (If you don’t, then you really are trying to destroy the party.) ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/503 "2016-04-04T02:25:53Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > **PhillyGuy** , the moral obligation is not about whether it is federal vs. state, but about whether you voted in the primary. I say that you shouldn’t vote in a primary if there are candidates on that ballot, with a significant chance to win, whom you would not vote for in the general election. So if you’re a Republican and opposed to Trump, and think he would be a disaster for the party and the country, you are thereby obliged to sit out the primary and by that very inaction _help_ his candidacy? Are you seriously saying this? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/504 "2016-04-04T02:27:28Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > But you won’t accept the the responsibility of implied reciprocity. You expect that if you pull it leftward, the more centrist voters will still come along and vote for your candidate in the general. (If you don’t, then you really are trying to destroy the party.) I expect that everyone will vote for the candidate in the general whom they believe will result in the best government, according to their standards. I don’t expect them to follow some sort of Miss Manners Guide to pint-swapping or whatever you’re expecting them to do. Of course, you only seem to expect this behavior when it benefits your candidate. Purely coincidental, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/505 "2016-04-04T02:35:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > We got caught by surprise, we didn’t think we needed a leader for the progressive movement, mostly because we underestimated our own numbers. And in teaching progressives to know our own strength, Sanders already has accomplished something of greater importance and greater value than any American pol has ever accomplished since LBJ. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/506 "2016-04-04T02:48:16Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > But people _are_ trying out for the team – the leadership of the team to be more specific. Could a President Sanders pass legislation through edicts? How does he get it all done by himself? What wasn’t Obama able to do it all by himself? Oh that’s right – he has to work with members of his party to find ways around his opposition. And believe me, there’s a lot of teamwork at play. Look, whatever Sanders is, he is not naive. He has been in the Senate for decades. He knows all about, and far better than most people – possibly even better than most senators with less seniority – how things get done and how things do not get done in Washington. No one can tell him anything about the challenges he would face that he did not think of first, and before he even announced. As to what he could do by decree, or executive order . . . in that regard, W and Obama between them already have very effectively pushed the envelope far beyond what would have been thinkable before 2001, and Sanders knows that too. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/507 "2016-04-04T02:49:48Z")
I confess that I’m having difficulty following this thread. Sanders will pivot to the general this summer. He will bring along the large majority of his supporters. Those of his group that don’t vote Democratic aren’t really Sanders supporters anyway. Because Sanders understands politics. I can understand a Sanders supporters wondering about next fall, given the heat of this campaign. But I think it’s going to be hard to voice an articulate case for Stein/Ryan in August. Some will do that I suppose. But they will be small in number. Far more will take a mid-way position and not actively campaign for Hillary while supporting certain down-ballot candidates. Like many discussions, this would be moot if we didn’t have this bizarro 2 stage voting system, with eligibility for first stage voting varying state by state. The idea that Joe Blow or MfM should be asked to weigh electability along with ideological preference in the first stage is a little much. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/508 "2016-04-04T02:56:48Z")
I stand by what I said earlier. If there were multiple parties vying for election, there could be some validity to your over the top loyalty stance, Dangerosa. But since America has such a rock solid two party system it’s simply outrageous to expect politically active people to either abstain from the first half of the election or be locked in to the second. I mean seriously, you are saying that anyone who votes based on individual candidates qualifications rather than voting blindly straight ticket is acting unethically. How can that possibly seem rational to you? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/509 "2016-04-04T03:17:36Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > So if you’re a Republican and opposed to Trump, and think he would be a disaster for the party and the country, you are thereby obliged to sit out the primary and by that very inaction _help_ his candidacy? Are you seriously saying this? This is absolutely the key question. I agree that crossing party lines specifically for purposes of sabotage is a bad thing. It’s unethical to vote for a candidate in a primary election if you do not actually prefer that candidate to the other choices available in that primary election. There are some weird corner cases. For instance, suppose I rate the candidates as follow: Sanders A Clinton A- Kasich B+ Trump, Cruz: F In that case, if I lived in an open primary state, I might vote for Kasich, because far and away the biggest difference between candidates is, to me, the preference for Kasich over Trump or Cruz. In this case, I’m not going to vote for Kasich in the general election no matter what, but it’s an honest vote, I’m doing it out of candidate preference, not in an attempt to sabotage the Republican party. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > I will note that I voted for and donated to Obama in the 2008 primary season, and I was very critical of the PUMA faction. But Hillary, to her credit, never encouraged this kind of attitude the way Bernie did in the interview. He did? Like so many other people in this thread, I just don’t see it. You’re continuing to compare things that people said and did _after_ the primary election was over with things said and done _during_ the primary election. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/510 "2016-04-04T03:18:05Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I guess **LHOD** must not believe in the social contract. Which voting in a party primary is not. Contracts impose obligations on all parties to the contract, and voting in a primary – or in a general election – imposes none whatsoever, legal or ethical. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/511 "2016-04-04T03:24:38Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I think this election has genuinely unhinged a bunch of people. Starting with the candidates, **all** of them. Clinton is unhinged by her opposition, Sanders is unhinged by his success, and all of the Republicans, even the best of them, are unhinged by being Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/512 "2016-04-04T03:28:20Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I’m offended when people talk on the phone in a public restroom. Short of rape or very loud masturbation, that’s pretty much the **least** offensive thing people do or can do in a public restroom. Even washing one’s hands is kindasorta nasty, as it indicates a perceived necessity to wash them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/513 "2016-04-04T03:43:48Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > We have different definitions of what party politics are. Some people believe that when you are a member of a family, you’ve agreed to certain family obligations. Some people believe when you marry, there are certain obligations that you take when you marry. I think when you engage in party politics, you take on certain obligations. :mad: **Ogdammit!** There was a time, you know, when American party affiliations were more . . . tribal than ideological. I recall reading that one of the Kennedy family, I think it was a woman, remarked back in the early '60s that it would be very difficult to explain to a foreigner the difference between Democrats and Republicans. And it was true at the time, each party had its liberal and conservative wings. But since Nixon got going with his Southern Strategy, and there was a significant exchange in party constituencies, the two parties have more or less sorted themselves out along clear ideological lines – and no good and decent American should regret that. And ideological politics are not tribal or family politics, they’re **better.** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/514 "2016-04-04T03:50:42Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m actually not a Clinton supporter but one of the big problems the Sanders camp seems to have is foolishly assuming their opponents are “entitled” or “the establishment”. It ain’t foolish. The Democratic Party very definitely **has** an Establishment and it very clearly favors Clinton over Sanders. The preferences of the voting base, including minorities, are a completely different and largely irrelevant discussion. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/515 "2016-04-04T04:01:33Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Bernheads who won’t support Hillary in the fall are like the husband who expects his wife to be faithful to him, but has no sense of reciprocity about his own behavior. IOW, husbands. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/516 "2016-04-04T04:25:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It ain’t foolish. The Democratic Party very definitely **has** an Establishment and it very clearly favors Clinton over Sanders. The preferences of the voting base, including minorities, are a completely different and largely irrelevant discussion. Having an establishment and everyone with views differing from Bernie’s supporters being painted as part of that establishment are completely different things, though. Which is exactly the mistake I’ve seen several Bernie supporters make just in the past week. Hell, I’m not even a Democrat and I’ve been charged with being a part of their establishment twice. Oh yeah, and entitled, too, as if I don’t work for a living. Personally I think the entitlement is a lot more on the other side based on the ages of the vast majority of Bernie supporters. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/517 "2016-04-04T04:25:49Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Reminds me of the sore losers who supported Clinton in 2008 and when Obama won, bolted to McCain just out of spite. > > [Angry Clinton supporters toast McCain, roast Obama - CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/26/clinton.backers/) No, “spite” is not the word. The right word begins with “r”. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/518 "2016-04-04T04:31:26Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I confess that I’m having difficulty following this thread. Sanders will pivot to the general this summer. He will bring along the large majority of his supporters. Those of his group that don’t vote Democratic aren’t really Sanders supporters anyway. Because Sanders understands politics. So you’re saying either that Bernie will win the nomination or that he’ll run third- (or fourth-) party. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/519 "2016-04-04T06:27:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I think you are describing the base and **EC** is describing the leadership. Correct, in my case. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/520 "2016-04-04T06:30:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And in teaching progressives to know our own strength, Sanders already has accomplished something of greater importance and greater value than any American pol has ever accomplished since LBJ. Yes, and now we must teach centrists to know our strength. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443.md?page=27)