# Feel the #extortion Bernie has planned **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 28, 2016, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443 "2016-03-28T07:09:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/541 "2016-04-04T16:34:30Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So Republicans who vote for Republicans aren’t racist? > > Look, this is how you know someone is racist - do they have racist beliefs? Then they are racist. If they don’t, they’re not racist. I didn’t make the statement, I was just clearing up your misunderstanding. That said, obviously there’s ways to surmise race was a factor without interviewing every single Dem who voted for McCain. If black people vote pretty reliably 80% Democrat then when Obama is up for election they suddenly vote 95% Democrat you could reasonably suppose race was a factor. The same works the other way if there is a sudden drop in Democrat percentage of the white vote. It’s not like Obama had some radical platform to explain it. It’s not like whites might hate Hope and Change but blacks eat it up. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/542 "2016-04-04T16:50:48Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Which (and I realize that you are just describing this position, not endorsing it) is an insane position to have. Sure, you could argue that there are some very specific, and very important, policy areas in which D and R are far too similar… particularly centered around areas of money in politics and so forth. > > But you have to willfully blind yourself to the dozens of issues on which there are HUGE differences between D and R to come to the conclusion that they’re nearly identical. See **EC’s** post #540. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/543 "2016-04-04T16:53:16Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > And the slow decline of credibility of racist accusations continues. Not so slow anymore. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/544 "2016-04-04T16:58:20Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Well, then, that settles it - EVERY Dem voter who voted Republican instead of Obama was a racist. and of course- every Sanders supporter who doesnt vote for Hilary is sexist. Or if Sanders gets the nod, everyone who doesnt switch to Sanders from Clinton is a racist. :rolleyes: Because of course, there’s absolutely no difference between Clinton & Sanders. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/545 "2016-04-04T17:00:06Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I didn’t make the statement, I was just clearing up your misunderstanding. > > That said, obviously there’s ways to surmise race was a factor without interviewing every single Dem who voted for McCain. . There’s a huge difference between race being\* a\* factor and it being the _sole_ factor. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/546 "2016-04-04T17:02:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > and of course- every Sanders supporter who doesnt vote for Hilary is sexist. Or if Sanders gets the nod, everyone who doesnt switch to Sanders from Clinton is a racist. :rolleyes: > > Because of course, there’s absolutely no difference between Clinton & Sanders. :dubious: There are reasons other than not wanting a woman president to support Sanders but not Clinton. I don’t see that as the case in the 2008 Clinton/Obama contest. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/547 "2016-04-04T17:11:58Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > There are reasons other than not wanting a woman president to support Sanders but not Clinton. > > I don’t see that as the case in the 2008 Clinton/Obama contest. Racism is always the answer, huh? :rolleyes: You cant find _any_ differences between Hillary’s platform and Obama’s? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/548 "2016-04-04T17:25:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Racism is always the answer, huh? :rolleyes: > > You cant find _any_ differences between Hillary’s platform and Obama’s? :dubious: Occam’s razor, I guess. I actually don’t see much daylight between Hillary’s and Obama’s positions in 2008. Not enough to cause someone to switch parties, except in very rare cases. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/549 "2016-04-04T17:50:02Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Now, Obama has not accomplished a lot else during his administration, and you can chalk some of that up to wilful obstructionism, but I also haven’t seen a lot of TRYING to pass progressive policies out of Obama. He just doesn’t seem INTERESTED, you know? This is psychotic-break level divorced from reality, but I am not going to try to get through to you, and I’m done begging ridiculous people to vote Democratic. Buh-bye, go play in your Jill Stein sandbox; the grownups will take care of the country for you. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/550 "2016-04-04T19:35:45Z")
That’s enough of that. This whole thread is a fine line waiting to be tripped over. No more personal attacks at all. SlackerInc, keep it under control. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/551 "2016-04-05T02:47:42Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Some of us Sanders supporters have plenty of perspective. I have had the experience of watching the Dems elect both Clinton and Obama, and seeing them bargain away, or attempt to bargain away, most of the social programs that progressives hold dear. Clinton signed Glass- Steagall, which was passed with the bipartisan support of DLC centrists in the Senate, and which has proved to be disastrously foolish. With Glass-Steagall in place, we had NO bank collapses in for fifty years. Without it … we all remember 2007, I believe. Clinton signed lesgislation, also bipartisans thanks to Dem centrists, which dismantled important anti-poverty programs and which cast millions of Americans into poverty. He also signed “get tough on crime” legislation, also bipartisanly supported, which made America a sort of horrifying laughingstock to the rest of the world, with the highest incarceration rate of any country. His single really progressive “achievement” was a totally botched attempt to get universal health care passed. > > Woo-hoo. > > Then we got Obama, who DID manage to get an ATTEMPT at universal heath care passed, using a plan developed by a Republican think tank and first put into use by Mitt Romney. The plan did nothing to control medical costs or displace our expensive medical insurers, of course. Big Pharma, the insurance companies, doctors and hospitals are still riding high on the hog. And of course, Obama has ATTEMPTED more … he TRIED to get Republicans to accept cuts in Social Security as part of a “Grand Bargain” with them on financial issues. But they were so blind stupid mad that they wouldn’t go for it. And he once bragged that he OFFERED the Republicans 90 percent of what they wanted in his initial negotiation with them. Does this sound like honest negotiation? Would you think someone who had gone to a used car salesman and offered him 90 percent of his asking price at the first go-round was doing a good job of negotiating. > > Now, Obama has not accomplished a lot else during his administration, and you can chalk some of that up to wilful obstructionism, but I also haven’t seen a lot of TRYING to pass progressive policies out of Obama. He just doesn’t seem INTERESTED, you know? > > And what I HAVE seen in EVERY election, is hearfelt, passionate declaration by Slacker and others like him that THIS election matters more than any other EVER has, that letting the Republicans take the White House would DESTROY the United States or at least the Democratic Party, and also … BOOGAH BOOGAH! > > So, yah, I got some perspective. It ain’t a pretty one. And thing is, I am WILLING to vote for the Dem candidate, if I believed there was a chance in hell they’d realize their progressive base is pissed and they should really think about appeasing them. > > Not seeing it. Certainly not seeing it here. And I REALLY like Jill Stein. So for the moment, I’m just hoping Bernie wins. Because even if he CAN’T get progressive legislation passed in the teeth of a Republican Congress, I know he’ll do something that a centrist wouldn’t … he’ll at least TRY. And who knows, he might succeed here and there. Beats all the nothing the centrists have shown me. You have no idea how congress actually works. You only have an idea of how you would like it to work. Big difference. Good night. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/552 "2016-04-05T18:17:26Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Well, he did make her secretary of state. So there’s that. Washington made Jefferson Secretary of State and the Jeffersonians threatened to impeach Washington over Jay’s Treaty. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/553 "2016-04-05T18:20:20Z")
Interesting article: > **[Privilege is what allows Sanders supporters to say they’ll “never” vote for...](https://qz.com/644985/privilege-is-what-allows-sanders-supporters-to-say-theyll-never-vote-for-clinton)** > > If you say you'll stay home if Clinton's the nominee, you're probably protected from the consequences of a Trump presidency. _Vote for whoever you like in the primary. But let’s step away from vicious attacks and hatred. Let’s step away from buying into debunked conservative propaganda about Clinton’s trustworthiness. Let’s look at the candidates’ actual proposals and weigh those proposals’ actual strengths and weaknesses. Let’s respect each other’s choices in the primaries. And whoever becomes the Democratic nominee, the stakes are far, far too high for us to selfishly stay home because we didn’t get our first choice. I will happily, proudly vote for either Clinton or Sanders, and I hope you will do the right thing and join me._ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/554 "2016-04-05T18:27:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Washington made Jefferson Secretary of State and the Jeffersonians threatened to impeach Washington over Jay’s Treaty. > > 🙂 Well, none of the “Impeach Obama” bullshit over the past 7 years has come from Clintonians AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/555 "2016-04-05T19:12:45Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > You have no idea how congress actually works. You only have an idea of how you would like it to work. Big difference. Good night. Sure I do. It starts when a wealthy oligarch or group of oligarchs wants a law or regulation in his favor. He goes to his lobbyists and they draft the legislation and submit it and a secret promise of more Super PAC donations to their favorite Congressman. (Super PACs are favored because donors can be anonymous, erasing even the APPEARANCE of quid pro quo, which is the difference between practical bribery and legal bribery). The Congressman introduces the bill on the floor of his or her legislative body (Senate or Representatives) It is then sent to the appropriate committee for deliberations, which means they figure out how much in donations from Super PACs they want to extort from the backer(s) to get the bill out of committee. When and if it is out of committee, it goes to a vote on the full House floor, which means more extortion and bribery. If it passes the full House vote it goes to the Senate where the whole bribery/extortion committee/full Senate vote process is repeated, because Senators need money too, yo. If the backer(s) are able to sufficiently bribe both bodies, and that can be expensive because sometimes OTHER oligarchs with lots of money may oppose the bill, which means competing rounds of bribery (you know, Comcast vs. Google on net neutrality, for instance) then the bill goes to the President to be signed into law, and that means BIG Super PAC donations. Now even if the law is vetoed or held in committee, never fear, all the bribery may not come to naught. With just another bribe, the bill can still be slipped into another, totally unrelated piece of legislation and quietly voted on just before midnight on a Friday night, say, when no one will notice. So there IS justice for the mega-wealthy, my friend. So, what kind of prize do I get, Mr. Asahi? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/556 "2016-04-05T19:16:34Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Sure I do. It starts when a wealthy oligarch or group of oligarchs wants a law or regulation in his favor. He goes to his lobbyists and they draft the legislation and submit it and a secret promise of more Super PAC donations to their favorite Congressman. Hey, I think I saw this on Schoolhouse Rock. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/557 "2016-04-05T20:33:00Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Hey, I think I saw this on Schoolhouse Rock. Yup, totally stole it from them. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2016, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/558 "2016-04-09T12:00:55Z")
Those like **Evil Captor** who think Obama didn’t do much that was progressive (he wasn’t even interested, yanno) please read this: > **[Barack Obama is officially one of the most consequential presidents in...](https://www.vox.com/2015/6/26/8849925/obama-obamacare-history-presidents)** > > Clinton and Carter were middling at best. Obama is LBJ or FDR level. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/559 "2016-04-10T02:11:20Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Those like **Evil Captor** who think Obama didn’t do much that was progressive (he wasn’t even interested, yanno) please read this: > > [Barack Obama is officially one of the most consequential presidents in American history | Vox](http://www.vox.com/2015/6/26/8849925/obama-obamacare-history-presidents) Nice article. Achieving health care reform was indeed a century-defining accomplishment, one that defeated the efforts of Presidents dating back to Teddy Roosevelt. It doesn’t hold a candle to Ralph Nader’s activism though. After lying to the public about not campaigning in swing states and handing the election to his good friend George W Bush, Ralph Nader focused his energies on such key national issues as [unfair refereeing in basketball games](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/nba/02playoffs/2002-06-06-nader-letter.htm) and [extending Mariano Rivera’s baseball career](http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2013/07/ralph_nader_starts_petition_to_get_yankees_mariano_rivera_to_pitch_one_more_season.html). Truly a man with a keen sense of priorities. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/560 "2016-04-10T02:16:13Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Hey, I think I saw this on Schoolhouse Rock. I’m just a Bill… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443.md?page=29)