# Feel the #extortion Bernie has planned **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 28, 2016, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443 "2016-03-28T07:09:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/61 "2016-03-28T20:50:23Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Why would a candidate indicate support for their opponent in the middle of the campaign? I was annoyed when I heard what Bernie said, but I will save judgement … It is not a hard question to answer without resorting to threats: Hypothetical Sanders: I believe that both of us believe that _either_ of us would be a far better choice for president than any of the GOP contenders and would support the other wholeheartedly in the general election. I look forward to her support! Hypothetical interviewer pressing the point: But are there conditions for your support? Hypothetical Sanders: IF I do not win the nomination, and again I expect to win, then I will support her without conditions. But let me just say this: as I understand it the many people voting for me, the millions of young voters all over this country, the future of the party, are not voting for me so much as they are voting for the ideas that I am articulating, for our shared vision of the future. Secretary Clinton, if she wins, will know that she must further embrace that vision if she wants their enthusiastic support whether i endorse her or not. I would have every expectation that she would do so. I believe _I_ will win the nomination, I believe that Bernie Sanders is best equipped to beat Trump, I believe that the superdelegates will realize that, but at the end of the day whichever one of us wins we will need to come together. Really not so hard. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/62 "2016-03-28T20:54:57Z")
> [@TheSeaOtter](#): > > It’s not Tom’s fault if sometimes someone says something so utterly absurd that the only appropriate response is laughter. … Even if one believes that the thought that I for one see as extremely reasonable is “absurd”, no derisive laughter is not appropriate nor conducive to intelligent discussion and debate. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/63 "2016-03-28T21:02:56Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > What does that have to do with this topic? My dog could beat Drumpf one on one. And she died years ago. So, if Trump has no chance whatsoever, Hillary has no need to grub for Bernie supporters votes and can let them vote according to their conscience, since wicked old Donald won’t be the bogeyman needed to scare them into her corral. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/64 "2016-03-28T21:03:53Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > So you are saying that indeed never before has a losing contender for the Democratic nomination publicly threatened to not support the winner unless the winner reversed their public positions in favor of the loser’s? > > Just so we are clear. Just so we’re clear, if I’d wanted to say that, I would have said that. My keyboard has all the necessary keys, and I’m good at spelling. So no. I am not saying that. Nor does that summary have anything to do with what Sanders is saying now. If you disagree with my summary of what Sanders said in that Young Turks interview, how about you address why, specifically, you disagree with my summary? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/65 "2016-03-28T21:05:17Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Plus I don’t think a Bernie endorsement even matters that much. … And yes that is true. From [another thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19214072&postcount=48): > [@](#): > > … No question that White Millennial Progressives prefer Sanders over Clinton but they are, against Trump at least, and at least for now, in the fold. > > Quote: > In a hypothetical Clinton v. Trump contest in November, voters under 35 would choose Clinton by a crushing 52%-19%, a preference that crosses demographic lines. Among whites, she’d be backed by nearly 2-1, 45%-26%. Among Hispanics, by more than 4-1, 61%-14%. Among Asian Americans, by 5-1, 60%-11%. Among African Americans, by 13-1, 67%-5%. > > Oh okay. Judge that poll with some skepticism as it was an online poll and … well. So let’s go with a more traditional one, WaPo-ABC: > > Quote: > those under age 40 favor Clinton by a nearly 2-to-1 margin. > > Yes, I do believe that Sanders can do some slight harm to that with persistent negative campaigning, marginal harm only perhaps, but dang, to me this is much bigger stakes than Gore v Bush. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/66 "2016-03-28T21:18:57Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Jesus christ, now he’s **threatening**? Amazing how you can get that from a question that didn’t even ask if he’d endorse Clinton, and from an answer that was nothing at all like you’re characterizing. And with such flourish! Bravo, sir, bravo. Interestingly the clip which when I linked to it yesterday prominently featured his demands (referenced in the article) now cuts off just before he states them. > [@](#): > > Sanders also listed policy demands he would make of Clinton, including a single-payer health care system, a $15 an hour minimum wage … Yes I heard the whole bit and it was very clear that those were demands of conditions for his support. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/67 "2016-03-28T21:27:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Just so we’re clear, if I’d wanted to say that, I would have said that. My keyboard has all the necessary keys, and I’m good at spelling. > > So no. I am not saying that. Nor does that summary have anything to do with what Sanders is saying now. If you disagree with my summary of what Sanders said in that Young Turks interview, how about you address why, specifically, you disagree with my summary? Well it was the the question you were asked. Tom had condescendingly stated that a losing Democratic candidate setting the terms for their support was normative. You were, after claiming that such was “self-evidently correct” asked to provide a “comparative example from recent history to show us” and **your answer was … none.** Just that this time is different. And yes, it is, this time a candidate is threatening to withhold support if his demands that the (hypothetically) winning candidate changes her stated policies to his are not met. Likely of little impact but still reprehensible given the stakes at play. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/68 "2016-03-28T21:34:35Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yes I heard the whole bit and it was very clear that those were demands of conditions for his support. Except he wasn’t asked if he would support Clinton, so those conditions _can’t_ mean what you’re claiming they mean. Again, he was asked (paraphrased), [“If you were to lose, and the Democratic party comes to you and says, OK, take this movement, that is full of energy and against the establishment, and make sure they vote for the establishment candidate. What do you say?”](https://youtu.be/ggFitmOTSok?t=17m25s) Do you see the difference between “Would you throw your support behind Hillary” and “How would you ensure that your supporters vote for Hillary?” ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/69 "2016-03-28T22:14:06Z")
**DSeid** , are you going to keep asking the same question over and over until you get an answer you want to hear? Even the most batshit cuckoo Sanders supporters know OF COURSE he will endorse Clinton. This is not in question. This faux outrage is ridiculous. Derisive laughter is the only appropriate response allowed in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/70 "2016-03-28T22:27:41Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > So, if Trump has no chance whatsoever, Hillary has no need to grub for Bernie supporters votes and can let them vote according to their conscience, since wicked old Donald won’t be the bogeyman needed to scare them into her corral. But the key there was one-on-one. If Bernie supporters vote for Jill Stein en masse and Drumpf has somehow managed to avoid any conservative third party competition, then Drumpf might win, although I still think it would be close. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/71 "2016-03-28T22:39:57Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Well it was the the question you were asked. Tom had condescendingly stated that a losing Democratic candidate setting the terms for their support was normative. No, that’s not what he stated. Go back and read what he said: he disagreed with the idea that > [@tomndebb](#): > > a candidate with an enormous following is not permitted to set terms for the ways in which he will direct his supporters to switch their support to his opponent. Note the word “permitted,” not “normative.” Note that we’re talking not about his support, but his supporters’ support. Those two differences make your paraphrase completely inaccurate. > [@DSeid](#): > > You were, after claiming that such was “self-evidently correct” asked to provide a “comparative example from recent history to show us” and **your answer was … none.** Just that this time is different. And it is. > [@](#): > > And yes, it is, this time a candidate is threatening to withhold support if his demands that the (hypothetically) winning candidate changes her stated policies to his are not met. Again, that’s not at all what he said. [Read post 36](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19215251&postcount=36). Watch the interview. He’s not threatening to withhold support at all. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/72 "2016-03-28T22:42:32Z")
And Drumpf isn’t threatening riots. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/73 "2016-03-28T23:13:26Z")
It’s amazing how anti-democratic this whole ‘endorsement’ thing is, given that it’s part of the electoral system of what is supposedly the greatest democracy in the world. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/74 "2016-03-28T23:13:43Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > “Direct” them? Are his supporters his employees? Or are they free to make up their own minds to support the remaining candidate who can best help achieve what they want achieved? Of course, his supporters may vote for whomever they choose or decline to vote for anyone. You are (probably deliberately) choosing a specific definition of the word “direct” that is not implied by my statement. Every leader “directs” followers to by setting a direction. A leader who lacks authority still “directs” those people. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Once a candidate has lost, once there is no longer a realistic chance of winning, all he has left is to decide is if his exit will be honorable and constructive, or petty and destructive. Which still leaves him to options of honorably indicating his support for his victorious opponent or honorably indicating his continued opposition to said opponent or of dishonorably choosing either path for whatever reason. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/75 "2016-03-28T23:21:52Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Bwahahaha? > > Boy, Tom the level of your discourse has dropped embarrassingly. > > Assuming a case, perhaps even not until after all states have voted, that Sanders decides that he has no path forward to becoming the nominee, then threatening to withhold his endorsement, essentially threatening to help make a GOP (at this point presumptively Trump) win even marginally more likely, unless the winning Democratic candidate changes her stated positions and priorities to match his, the losing candidate, is, of course, not against any law. It is however reprehensible, disgusting, and stupid. > > IF Clinton did give in to such explicit threats she would appear weak and pandering. Her only rational response going into the general at that point would be to publicly refuse and to refuse to allow Sanders any speaking time at the convention. > > Indeed such would cause some harm to her campaign but giving in to threats and suddenly taking positions that she argued against (as he states he would demand) would harm the chances of a Democratic victory in November more. > > To her credit once she accepted that she lost to Obama she made no public threats for her support and unreservedly and vigorously worked to get him elected. If any compromises on planks and such were made they were done quietly. not with public threats. > > Bwahahahaha? From you? Really? Wow. You are tempting me to use it again. Regardless of your views as to what Sanders should or should not do, the claim of the post to which I responded was that he could not do it, (even as he contradicted himself with an example of it actually happening. If someone makes absurd claims, contradicting himself in his own post, then pointing and laughing is an appropriate response. I have taken no position on what Sanders should or should not do. The OP was a rant that barely missed being sent to The BBQ Pit. However, once it was accepted as a debate, it behooves the poster to argue his actual position and to not make silly claims on which he contradicts himself. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/76 "2016-03-28T23:21:58Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > ." > > And it’s also been the whole point of why he’s been running from the start. His campaign is about pushing Clinton towards the left. And that’s all he’s still doing. > . Also known as “winning the election for Trump”.:rolleyes: It’s fucking stupid to push Clinton to the left\* during the election. \* ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/77 "2016-03-28T23:32:06Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Tom had condescendingly stated that a losing Democratic candidate setting the terms for their support was normative. I said no such thing. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/78 "2016-03-28T23:44:10Z")
**Tomndebb** , you are mischaracterizing your own words and mine from early in the thread. But that is always a tremendously tedious debate to have, so rather than do any further line-by-line parsing, that is all I will say on the topic. Our earlier posts are still there for anyone to read and judge for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/79 "2016-03-28T23:52:54Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You are tempting me to use it again. … You are free to demean and debase yourself and the forum all you like. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443/80 "2016-03-28T23:58:30Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > **Tomndebb** , you are mischaracterizing your own words and mine This, from the person using ‘extortion’ to mean ‘not endorsing a candidate whose policies they don’t agree with unless said candidate decides to support policies they do’. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/feel-the-extortion-bernie-has-planned/750443.md?page=5)