That’s just it, Hunter. Usually in these situations, male- or female-led, it’s an exercise in futility because they are paired with someone who either 1) won’t get it, or 2) gets it, and STILL doesn’t want you anyway. It’s because of denying that #2 is the truth that these desperate letters/talks/etc can escalate into the freak shows that become legends.
[sub]As a experiment, I’m doing to place an asterisk after every sentence I add or edit mid-post[/sub]
As amazing as it is to me, y’all managed to understand me most of the times I’ve posted. Y’all must read idijt fluently.
This may come off as preaching to the choir, but this is a wonderful thread. Though this piece is drifting to relationship advise (which, I’m free to admit, I am a certified moron) this seems to be good advise to us who inhabit the GD or IMHO (and want to avoid the Pit). The thing about these boards (and any instant communications over the net) is that they encourage you to communicate your thoughts immediately…even if you haven’t finished creating your thoughts. Message board debates are probably the most difficult kind to participate in.[sup]*[/sup]
I was given good this advise about how to compose writings. After you’ve finished, don’t print it out, don’t read it. Walk away, do something else, completely forget about what you were writing. When you come back, you’d be amazed how different what you wrote is from what you were trying to write.[sup]*[/sup]
Of course on this board, or email, or in chat that advise is thrown out of the window. Unfortunately speed’s the key.
I notice this in most of my posts. I see where I’ve been redundant, and said the same thing over again. I can see where I was in sentences when midway I suddenly change thoughts. I probably never written a sentence that didn’t use “probably” twice. I’m not conscious of this mid-post, but I usually end up banging my head after reading the post a day later.[sup]*[/sup]
Sarcasm is particularly difficult in text – especially if you try to include it in serious context.[sup][/sup] I use it heavily. It’s an addiction actually.[sup][/sup] When you are talking to someone, you can track body language, voice infliction, eye movement, and so on. And after repeated encounters with the same person, you can learn their idiosyncracies.[sup]*[/sup] Here all you get are these goofy icons. (which I tend to forget to add. :rolleyes:) Sure, you also get to learn the idiosyncracies of someone’s writing style after a while, but that takes infinitely longer. And it’s also much easier to misinterpret one’s writing style, since there’s really no way to self correct what you read, or to calibrate the information.
Of course, it was inevitable that I’d screw up in my post.
That stupid vB misrendered my smilie tags!
The ** :rolleyes:) **is supposed to be :rolleyes: )
The close parenthesis is actually supposed to close a parenthetical remark… “(which I tend to forget to add. :rolleyes: )”
there are alot of other nice comments like this one in this thread…i wonder why i never got one of them.
i resent that! it was usually the other way around…
oh my dog! someone mentioned “sarcasm is … in text” where are my old arguing buddies? why arent they tearing that persons throat out?
anyway, farewell to old news. something just never changes…the ignorant gene in us.
its the one that remains totally oblivious to any distraction that might possibly get or repel our attention. its the gene that doesnt understand sarcasm or jokes…some manage to surpress that gene, but strangely they start spreading ignorance instead of preventing it. i guess its got something to do with their inability to know what exacly ignorance is, for they have surpressed that knowledge.
another gene is the “I” gene, that one serves two purposes, first one is capitalization, spelling and grammar. the second purpose is to scramble communication in any form the I gene comes in contact with.
the third but certainly not the least important gene is, eh…well, not a gene. its more like a virus, one that when you catch it changes your genes.
you become afflicted with dreams, partiotism, lose the ability to count and you think you are the ruler of the world.
anyway, enough of me…lets talk about you.
bj0rn - little green men = litlir, grænir menn
Whoa.
Most of the time when you post to a BB, it’s in a conversational style. So, what do we all do? We talk to ourselves in our head, and type that out. I know everyone does it, so don’t try to deny it.
However, it’s almost impossible (apart from bolding and italicizing) to convey tone and inflection of voice.
Let’s try an experiment, to show you what I mean…
Say this sentence in total monotone:
“I didn’t say he stole it”
Ok, no re-read it with inflection on the “I”.
The inflection makes it sound like you’re saying someone else said he stole it.
Now, put inflection on “didn’t”.
The inflection here makes it sound like you’re defending yourself.
Now, put inflection on “say”.
The inflection here makes it sound like you implied or assumed he stole it.
Now, put inflection on “he”.
The inflection here makes it sound like you’re saying someone else stole it.
Now, put inflection on “stole”.
Makes it sound like he was only barrowing it.
Finally, put inflection on “it”.
Yeah, he stole something else.
So, you see, inflection and tone, which aren’t easily conveyed through plain text, are important to make your point in a conversation. So, just make sure that you use the CAPITALS, bold and italics and explain your feelings a bit more to at least show sarcasm or anger or what have you, so there’s no misunderstanding.
Also, if you think someone is attacking you, or calling you names or whatever…don’t go and bomb their house or kidnap their cat. Find out exactly what that person was trying to say…if it was a joke or their opinion, before you react.
-> This message has been brought to you by BBBB; The Better Bulletin Boards Bureau.
Thank you. 
P.S. - I bet you couldn’t tell that I’m taking a Professional Writing class at school this trimester. 
I want a sarcasm level indicator for Christmas - one that goes from “gently chiding” to “Did you use BOTH synapses to come up with, Einstein?”
My writing style is, alas, what it is - ambiguous, florid, cryptic. OF COURSE I’m misunderstood. I’m frequently MUDDLED. Could I focus more on what I mean than how it sounds? Possibly. Maybe a New Year’s resolution
Wombat! Kiosk! Credenza! Balloon!
Wow, that made me want to crawl under my desk, pull in the chair, and die! I HATE those stupid drafts, especially when you know it’s horrible child is out there . . . somewhere. Let me add that by no means send a casual birthday card two years later. Bad news.
But on the subject, some days you’re just feeling a little bitchy, and often that can lead to posts that are not like you at all. If you’re having a really crappy day and your boss is on your ass and you have no money and your BF is making you batty, then you’re going to want to let off some steam. What better place to do it than to a group of faceless posters. You don’t really have to deal with repercussions, and if you get flamed, hey, it just adds to your dimesia of the day and you start fighting back because you can’t very well go holler at your boss. Some people get really wrapped up and emotional about stuff that normally means very little to them. Weird.
And yet, I learn a lot when someone gets me wrong. It usually tells me that 1) I really wasn’t writing clearly, or 2) My subtext was showing. I seldom blame the reader - understanding your audience is part of writing, and while I can’t write for everyone, I can at least aim for less ambiguous grammar.
For the first point (#1 above), well, I’m a writer by trade, and even in the ‘I don’t have time to edit this well enough’ online world, I do learn from my mistakes, and it improves my writing. I use a lot of emphasis (in online writing) as a result, trying to make my intent clear. I also tend to over-explain if I don’t have time to edit, and hence my usually ENDLESS posts. (including this one)
For the second point, sometimes what I think I meant to say and what I subconsciously meant to say are two different things. Sometimes my emotions skew my word choice, my grammar, and my content. Not that the misinterpretation of a particular reader is necessarily an accurate picture of the hidden process that is going on in my head/heart, but that once that stuff creeps in, interpretation could go in almost any direction.
Cranky very gently pointed this out to me in another thread (I won’t bother to link it, it isn’t important), saying that I came across a certain way in one post, and a different way in another. Made me think, and re-read. I was indeed copping an attitude in the first post, though not for the reasons some readers might think. Still, the attitude was present, and I didn’t exactly explain the details of why I was bitching.
Even more importantly, if I was copping an attitude in the post, I may come across that way in real life, too. Which means I’d best think about it before I open my trap in those situations, unless I want to be interpreted wrong in real life. You don’t always get a chance to explain yourself IRL, either. I certainly did not mean to have an attitude in that thread, but there it was, in print. ::sigh:: I learned something valuable about how I was communicating on that topic, something nobody had pointed out to me before. (thanks, Cranky, I really do appreciate it!)
My best tips for reading posts from others is: If it pisses you off, stop, go back, and see if you can in any way read what they said as a positive or neutral comment. Neutral comments can feel like digs if you are feeling caught off-guard by the direction of their reply. Nine times out of ten, that was not the intent. Even if it was, you can hold the moral high ground by treating at as a question of information or interpretation, not an attack. This approach has saved my butt a bazillion times on parenting boards, where it is easy to feel like someone is calling you a bad parent (mostly because most of us are a bit insecure on that front).
“In our head”??? You mean you don’t move your lips, too?
DAMN!
[sub]I’m so sorry, I couldn’t help myself :rolleyes:[/sub]
It seems to me that people who have good speed in their ability to type - WPM and good accuracy and most of all, ‘touch typing’ skills are the ones who make the most sense and are most often understood correctly and do not get into the messy area of run on sentences and the like.
I for instance have to look at the keyboard and I can’t spell, and forget so fast that I can’t remember what I was saying when my typing gets to where I forgot what I was thinking, ::: oh, … wait, I said that already didn’t I?
Anywho, yes er … no … well it really helps to have been reading the persona post for some time as then I have a clue what they are REALY trying to say.
YMMV
I’ve written so many horriblly embarassing things, it’s amazing. They would fill volumes, to say the least. Personally, though, I try to be as clear as possible. Misunderstandings are sometimes unavoidable, but not always. Clarity is one of the best preventative measures in that respect. Posting (or e-mailing or even speaking) while sober (as opposed to blind roaring drunk) also helps enormously, though I rarely remember this when I need to.
If I were to ever shown the slightest judgement in what is in the queue when I hit [Submit] or [Send] I would never post or send anything. Generally I’m not sure if that would be good or bad. There are plenty of specifics that should have been quietly deleted. I would be happier; former friends would be happier.
Dropzone, you don’t know how much I can relate! I often just hit clear fields and back out of a thread rather than post what I’ve typed up. Fear of being misunderstood, I guess. And even with that (and my huge post count!) I can think of a few posts I’ve made that should have hit the cyber wastebasket…
I don’t need to…the voice in my head can read my thoughts… 
[sub]What’s that? Burn the building down? OK[/sub]
Gotta go…
I started a reply to this a while ago and got sidetracked, but I feel it’s important enough to revive, so…
Yes, I type like I talk, reflective pauses and all. Tends to leave quite a few ellipses in the post, but I frankly don’t care.
Quite often, especially with serious posts, I’ll find that my reply will sort of peter-out, that is, my intended direction of though will sort of fade out and I’m left unable to express what I meant to succinctly. Often, I’ll simply state “<I can’t quite say what I mean here, I’ll come back later and try again>” or some such thing. I guess it’s my way of saying “I know I’m not explaining this well, but I hope there is enough here to get the gist of the idea across and if I can, I’ll clean it up and if you really need clarification, I’ll redouble my efforts.”
WRT the running hijack: I have a both a folder on my computer and a box with letters written to my ex, some open, one still in the envelope I was going to present it in. I’ve gone back and read them, some still make sense, others show all too clearly that I was just trying to clarify myself, clear up any misunderstanding and make sure she “got it.” As we all know, there are times you just can’t explain things and this, well, this was one o’those times. (FWIW, I’m glad we’re not together and the letters helped show me how willing I was to throw part of myself away just to satisfy her, which I am doubly glad I didn’t).
And the late-night call…ugh! <raising a guilty hand> I have no idea what makes us think it’s a good idea- the timing, the drunkenness or the loneliness? All I can say here is that it feels so right at the time you’re dialing. Worse than this, though, is waking the next morning to find that you’ve called and having no idea what you might have said. The only thing you can do after that is wait it out. Trying to call and explain that you realize you must have called, but have no idea what you said, but would like to apologize for anything you might have said and you’re sorry and ‘What are you thinking’ and ‘Where does this leave us?’ is such a bad idea, I just can’t even fully explain. Waiting sucks, but it’s better than shooting yourself in the other foot!
Cranky, your opening post says it to a T.
One thing I have also learned is to forget about subtle tongue in cheek remarks. There are enough people who can’t pick it up at all, and , get offended and feel it neccessary to jump all over every statement you make,twisting it deliberately in order to put you down with scurilous remarks. As far as I’m concerned that is dishonest and childish and no doubt has ruined many a potentially fine debate. I remain defiant, however I will in future be extremely careful with the “teeming millions”, all 11 or 12 thousand of them.
That’s why God gave us the “winkie.” I use it ALL the time and people GENERALLY figure out that I’ve got my tongue in my cheek. Although I’m rarely “subtle.”
Just a little story, relevant to the hijack:
A few years ago, an instructor at work had never used his email at all. Then he and his girlfriend split up. He wrote one of those letters that have been mentioned above, dropped it in the mailbox, and then realized that it said things he really didn’t mean. The next day at work, he got out his email manual and sent off an explanation and apology, which the lady received before the paper mail. They ended up good friends, and he used email regularly from then on.
[/hijack]