# Felicity Huffman, Lori Loughlin indicted in Ivy League bribery scheme **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 12, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001 "2019-03-12T15:06:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/201 "2019-03-14T18:13:28Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > BTW, perhaps you can answer a question for me. I graduated high school in 1984 and when I was contemplating college choices, the guidance counselor advised me which schools were “stretches”, which were safety schools and which were in the middle. Meanwhile, my brother’s kids graduated high school in 2012 and 2016 and didn’t get that kind of advice. So I was touring schools that my nephew had no chance of getting into (good grades but a terrible SAT score). (Although it’s a lot of fun to tour these schools. The really elite ones are amazing places. I wish I was 18 again and could go to school for the first time all over again.) > > So do high school counselors still advise students which schools to consider? Yes, IME. My oldest daughter is a freshman in college, and received extensive advice from her guidance counselors, including dreams, reaches & safety schools. My second daughter is a junior in high school and has recently this process with the counselors. Suburban public high school BTW. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/202 "2019-03-14T18:16:39Z")
For a good laugh on the subject, check out post 64611 in the Baker’s Dozen thread here: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=573445&page=1293](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=573445&page=1293) ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/203 "2019-03-14T18:28:24Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So do high school counselors still advise students which schools to consider? It varies by institution. There are lots of public schools where there’s one counselor for 500 kids (that’s what we have), which is insane. It’s even more insane than it looks because counselor duties have expanded significantly over the years–for example, as standardized tests explode, they end up as testing coordinators. And everything requires more paperwork every year, much of which MUST be completed by a counselor. So in lots of schools, counselors just don’t have time. In other cases, even where they do have time, they don’t have expertise. College admissions is one of those fields that requires being an expert on an esoteric and rapidly changing body of knowledge. You can’t learn in in college, but rather as you go. And you stay current mostly by staying active–having a network of people you talk to so you know which schools offer good aid, what trends in admissions are, etc. And there’s a LOT of knowing people, too. So the counselors at most schools try, but it’s not always good and there’s never enough of it. Because of this, there’s been an explosion in private college admissions counseling, like in the current scandal. Hiring a private admissions counselor is absolutely normal in upper-middle class/professional circles now, and it’s becoming increasingly common in middle class circles as well. These people charge $85-$200 an hour (or $2-20K for a “package”). This is separate from private test prep, though it may be through the same person. Furthermore, good college counseling is a perk a lot of expensive private schools offer: it’s a big part of their advertising. Even then, a lot of wealthy parents go with a professional. It really does take a lot of knowledge to find a kid a school that 1) Matches their personal and professional goals 2) will take them 3) will be affordable. It has to be personalized because, for example, a kid with a household income of $100,000 might well find the State Flagship program to be the most affordable, best option: a kid with a household income of $75,000 and similar stats might be best off with in the honors program of a regional public school; and the kid with the same stats and a household income of $10k might find both those totally unaffordable but a more elite LAC might be free. And Kid A might be able to get into THAT school and rejected from THIS one when Kid B would get into THAT school but be rejected from THIS school. You can’t just put grades and test scores into a computer and it spits out a list. I work at a public magnet where most of our kids are first generation college students (many are first-generation high school students). We strive to provide the same sort of advising elite private counselors provide. It’s a TON of work. We’ve been really successful, but only because we’ve really made it the focus of our whole program and we have several individuals willing to donate a lot of their time. When other schools don’t do what we do, it’s not that they are lazy. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/204 "2019-03-14T18:39:10Z")
OK, in that case, thank you for your service. People usually say that to those in the military but it sounds like you deserve it as well. Getting kids, particularly first-generation college students, into college is a great thing to be doing. You can really change lives. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/205 "2019-03-14T20:16:17Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > It varies by institution. **Manda JO** , your posts in this thread have been outstanding and incredibly illuminating. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/206 "2019-03-14T20:17:16Z")
Our sons have all gone to the same very good suburban public high school and have each gotten pretty useful college counseling, including guidance in figuring out dream, reach and safety schools. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/207 "2019-03-14T20:42:54Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > It varies by institution. There are lots of public schools where there’s one counselor for 500 kids (that’s what we have), which is insane. It’s even more insane than it looks because counselor duties have expanded significantly over the years–for example, as standardized tests explode, they end up as testing coordinators. And everything requires more paperwork every year, much of which MUST be completed by a counselor. So in lots of schools, counselors just don’t have time. When I was in high school there was one counselor per 500 kids, assuming you only counted the senior class. I worked in the College Office as a student volunteer so I was up on this. They only allowed 3 applications per student, plus the generic application for CCNY. I did one safety school, one school I had high confidence in, and one stretch school. I think most people did something similar. Perhaps this problem could be reduced if there was some sort of a limit on applications countrywide. Acceptance rates would increase, there could be more time spent vetting colleges and students, and students might get a bit less frantic. I suppose the colleges would hate higher acceptance rates. What do you think? It would be hard to implement, I understand. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/208 "2019-03-14T20:47:38Z")
other students are suing because they were not told the admission process was rigged > **[Operation Varsity Blues Just Got Weirder](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/stanford-students-class-action-lawsuit-operation-varsity-blues-808070/)** > > Two Stanford students are suing the colleges implicated in the admissions scandal. Even though this one might not hold water, these schools will be facing fallout in the coming months ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/209 "2019-03-14T20:48:13Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Loughlin should have made a legal contribution to USC. Maybe setup up an endowment or scholarship in the Arts? It’s beyond stupid to let your kids use athletic scholarshipswhen they aren’t athletes. quid pro quo contributions are not legal. And if you make admission for dollars too obvious, the school would likely lose more money from alumni giving than they would make up in money for admissions. There are smart rich kids. When I was at MIT there was a du Pont and a Thai princess there - neither of whom had any problem with the work. There was also a du Pont athletic facility, but from long before she got there. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/210 "2019-03-14T20:49:04Z")
cases like what’s mentioned above are why CA is an open enrollment state … ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/211 "2019-03-14T21:01:12Z")
as expected the Hallmark channel axed Loughlin and Sephora canned her daughter ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/212 "2019-03-15T00:47:21Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > When I was in high school there was one counselor per 500 kids, assuming you only counted the senior class. I worked in the College Office as a student volunteer so I was up on this. > They only allowed 3 applications per student, plus the generic application for CCNY. I did one safety school, one school I had high confidence in, and one stretch school. I think most people did something similar. > Perhaps this problem could be reduced if there was some sort of a limit on applications countrywide. Acceptance rates would increase, there could be more time spent vetting colleges and students, and students might get a bit less frantic. > I suppose the colleges would hate higher acceptance rates. > What do you think? It would be hard to implement, I understand. I think that would hurt the neediest kids the worst. The reason kids apply to 20 schools is that it’s quite possible to apply to be rejected by 19 and get a full-ride to the one you get in. This isn’t true for all kids, but if you really, really need financial aid and you’re kind of an edge case, the only way for it to work is shotgun style. I don’t know how I’d fix the current system, but drastically limiting applications isn’t it. How does a kid whose never even been out of state pick three schools to apply to? > [@Voyager](#): > > quid pro quo contributions are not legal. And if you make admission for dollars too obvious, the school would likely lose more money from alumni giving than they would make up in money for admissions. > > There are smart rich kids. When I was at MIT there was a du Pont and a Thai princess there - neither of whom had any problem with the work. There was also a du Pont athletic facility, but from long before she got there. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, most “development cases” are exceptionally well qualified. But lots of exceptionally well qualified kids get rejected. It’s not “take my idiot son” money, it’s “take my impressively accomplished student over other impressively accomplished students”. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/213 "2019-03-15T00:49:15Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > OK, in that case, thank you for your service. People usually say that to those in the military but it sounds like you deserve it as well. Getting kids, particularly first-generation college students, into college is a great thing to be doing. You can really change lives. > [@hajario](#): > > **Manda JO** , your posts in this thread have been outstanding and incredibly illuminating. Thank you. Thanks to both of you for your kind words. I am pretty deep in this world! (For example, the last two hours have been the whirlwind of MIT decisions being released) ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/214 "2019-03-15T01:18:38Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > as expected the Hallmark channel axed Loughlin and Sephora canned her daughter that sort of stinks as garage series mysteries was one of their better movie series … ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/215 "2019-03-15T01:25:16Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > as expected the Hallmark channel axed Loughlin and Sephora canned her daughter She’s also lost TRESsemmé and Estee Lauder brands Too Faced and Smashbox Beauty. Plenty of sponsorship deals still out there, though, including Amazon, Marc Jacobs, Dolce & Gabbana and Clinique. Amazing how being the child of someone semi-famous can be leveraged to bring in big money for very little effort. Very little effort seems to be the theme here. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/216 "2019-03-15T01:27:46Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > that sort of stinks as garage series mysteries was one of their better movie series … As “comfort food” mysteries go, they were fairly satisfying. If you’re looking for a similar fix, try the Alison Sweeney series, the one were she’s a librarian and the one that just started up where she’s a podcaster. (until we find out she’s running a human trafficking ring shipping Irish clog dancers to bars and nightclubs throughout the Midwest :eek:) ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/217 "2019-03-15T01:41:22Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > They should do a movie about this case. I have a title “The Verdict was Mail Fraud”. Who can we get to star in it? Lol Get Macy ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/218 "2019-03-15T02:12:47Z")
While we’re all taking a certain pleasure from Lori Laughlin being hung out to dry, remember that Felicity Huffman [just wrapped production on an indie film](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9386648/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_1) that’s critical to Amy Jo Johnson’s attempt to shift from over-the-hill Power Ranger to serious director. AFAICT the film hasn’t found a distributor yet, and not being able to get the film out could derail Johnson’s career. That’s some serious collateral damage. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/219 "2019-03-15T02:52:28Z")
I’ve been wondering how students who got into college via bribes and/or cheating fare academically. After all, someone with a low GPA and an unimpressive SAT score is likely entering college at a disadvantage. [Turns out](https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/us/college-admission-cheating-students/index.html) that may be the deciding factor in whether those students are allowed to continue at that school or get kicked out. > [@](#): > > Some schools might be willing to look at whether the students in question had so far proven whether they could stand at the institution on their own merits, Helwick said, to decide if they would be allowed to stay. > > “How far have they progressed?” she asked. “How well have they done? Have they demonstrated they really were capable of performing at a level of someone who got in under normal circumstances?” > > A student could otherwise be asked to leave the university and attend another institution to prove their academic merit on their own, Boland said, which is “a very common practice,” often for a student who might have failed out or partied too much and didn’t take their education seriously enough. > > And, Helwick said, “community colleges are available for all manner of people.” That seems fair, unless, of course, the student’s acceptable grades are due to cheating on tests and/or hiring someone to write their essays. One reason this whole debacle angers me is that I can’t imagine how these students contribute to the quality of education for other students. Do they make constructive contributions to discussions? Ask relevant questions in class? Carry their own weight on team projects? ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001/220 "2019-03-15T03:03:59Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > While we’re all taking a certain pleasure from Lori Laughlin being hung out to dry, remember that Felicity Huffman [just wrapped production on an indie film](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9386648/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_1) that’s critical to Amy Jo Johnson’s attempt to shift from over-the-hill Power Ranger to serious director. AFAICT the film hasn’t found a distributor yet, and not being able to get the film out could derail Johnson’s career. That’s some serious collateral damage. Good point, and I hope Huffman is aware of how her actions affect others. Same for Loughlin, whose Hallmark series “Garage Sale Mysteries” has been canceled, undoubtedly putting others out of work. And the same for the less famous parents involved. Younger children in all those families, kids who aren’t yet college age, suffer by association. If one of those younger kids DOES make it into college on his or her own merit, who’ll believe it? I imagine there are all sorts of people suffering because of this. The effects of unethical behavior may not always be foreseen, but it makes them no less painful and the culprits no less culpable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-indicted-in-ivy-league-bribery-scheme/831001.md?page=12)