# Fellow bikers: Do 'civilians' fear you? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 2, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231 "2014-07-02T23:24:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/21 "2014-07-03T13:11:41Z")
Some bikers think I fear them. I once had a weekend warrior take offense because he thought I cut in front of he and his friends at a take out BBQ joint. I just said, “Have a nice day” and walked past him. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/22 "2014-07-03T13:12:11Z")
> [@Grestarian](#): > > So, cagers (car drivers), what’s the story? Do motorcyclists in general have such a homicidal reputation that you take pains to even hiccup in our general direction? I have a pretty low opinion of motorcycles on the road in general and the skills/behavior of their riders so if I’m avoiding one in a parking lot, it’s just to save myself the hassle more than any concerns about my health/safety. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/23 "2014-07-03T20:15:05Z")
Why fear anything that you are stronger than, smarter than, tougher than, sneaker than, more ruthless than, something you have no control over? You are doomed to fail if you encounter anyone or thing that does not embrace the sanctity of human life like the fearful do. Until death no longer exists, fear will lose out to that which does not fear. Be very careful of thinking all humans think of the value of human life is as great as you do. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/24 "2014-07-03T20:22:49Z")
Credos like that sound good and work well when victory and death are the only possible outcomes. OTOH, when severe injury, mutilation, paralysis, brain damage, blindness, and vegetative coma are among the possible outcomes, fear makes sense. Fear helps us survive. Making a value judgement and acting in spite of fear is a thing. “Why fear anything?” Is just addled. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/25 "2014-07-03T22:36:41Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > Hmmm. My motorcycle rain suit (2-piece jacket and over pants) is hi vis yellow, with silver 3M reflective stripes. One day I got caught in a sudden downpour on the road, pulled over under an overpass, and donned the rain gear… Only to walk into a Starbucks while refueling, and have an excited little boy point at me and say, “Mommy, look! A FIREMAN!” > > I couldn’t do it, I confessed I was only a motorcyclist 🙂 I once had to explain to a (disappointed, I’m sure) little boy that despite my cool padded jacket and helmet, I am \*not \*an astronaut. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/26 "2014-07-03T22:38:38Z")
> [@sandra\_nz](#): > > This. If a bike is parked close enough to my car that I have to take care when opening the door, I’m bloody terrified. Yes, this. And people love their bikes and might get realllllly upset if something happened to it. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/27 "2014-07-04T04:41:32Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Credos like that sound good and work well when victory and death are the only possible outcomes. > OTOH, when severe injury, mutilation, paralysis, brain damage, blindness, and vegetative coma are among the possible outcomes, fear makes sense. Fear helps us survive. Making a value judgement and acting in spite of fear is a thing. “Why fear anything?” Is just addled. I in no way indicated that that I believed in only 2 outcomes. I indicated that IMO, those who were not fearful would win out over those that are. Overcoming fear is a good thing IF it is done in the correct way. Fearful people usually don’t do it right. Overcoming fear In spite of fear In spite of fear with no training in what needs done Having no fear Not having enough fear Not having the proper abilities because of fear Not understanding why one fears this or that Fearing something because others fear it Maybe. I figured it out or learned it when I was about 15, I’m almost 71 now & so it has worked pretty good for me so far. Let me put it this way, I can chose to die for you but I damn sure won’t die because of you if I can help it at all. We just seem to have a very different level of worth on the importance of surviving. Or being messed up. Your list of fearful things is a bit different than mine but I’ll refrain from calling you addled. Vegetable state, massive medical bills, traumatizing family, all covered beforehand. AND … I did not say, “Why fear anything.” There were qualifiers… Later, have a great day. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Absinthe\_Anecdote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f6c823/32.png) [@Absinthe\_Anecdote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absinthe_Anecdote)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/28 "2014-07-04T06:00:23Z")
> [@Grestarian](#): > > **Fellow bikers: Do ‘civilians’ fear you?** > > Waaaay back when I started college, I was wearing slacks and button-down shirts and loafers to school and my fellow freshmen and sophomore students seemed to treat me like a grad student who was picking up some extra courses. Then my truck died and I got a motorcycle to replace it and I started wearing jeans, t-shirts, boots, and a leather jacket around campus. My fellow juniors and seniors treated me like a freshman who happened to be sitting in on some advanced courses. I understood the appearance issues, and kinda laughed about the mistaken impressions. > > Eventually I graduated and even got another car, but my main mode of transportation is still via motorcycle. > > And I’ve noticed something at malls and shopping centers that seems odd to me: Occasionally I’ll be standing by the bike or maybe sitting not too far from it, and I’ll see the people parked in the next stall go through some extensive contortions. They’ll approach the parking lot, see my bike sitting next to their car/van/truck, and stop. Then they’ll look around a bit (and I’ll pretend not to know they exist) and then they’ll chat for a moment and one person will open the car on the side farthest from my bike, crawl across the seats, and unlock the door that’s closer to my motorcycle. Then the other person will cautiously open the door as little as possible and squeeze inside. > > Is this happening for other bikes & bikers? Are we considered such murder-happy maniacs that we’ll slaughter entire families just for nudging or getting too close to our machines? :eek: > > The last few times this occurred, I had a fairly new and clean sport bike – not a greasy roadster with ape-hangers and skulls painted on the side with human blood. And I was wearing slacks, a button-down shirt, and touring boots that look like dress shoes if you don’t realize there’s 10 inches of leather inside my pant-leg to protect my shins. The helmet was on the bike, the leathers were inside a backpack, and I shave now so I don’t look quite as scruffy as I did when I was in college. Plus I’m actually a really mellow guy. :dubious: > > So, cagers (car drivers), what’s the story? Do motorcyclists in general have such a homicidal reputation that you take pains to even hiccup in our general direction? > > –G! > **Still they ride > On wheels of fire > They rule the night > [COLOR=White]…–Steve Perry (Journey)[/COLOR]** > …_Still they Ride_ > …Frontiers The fact that you are referring to non-bikers as civilians makes me wonder if you are taking you status as a “biker” a bit too seriously. The overly romantic song lyrics about, wheels of fire and ruling the night, makes me suspect it all the more. The fact that these lyrics are from a Journey song makes me laugh. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/29 "2014-07-04T16:36:56Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Why fear anything that you are stronger than, smarter than, tougher than, sneaker than, more ruthless than, something you have no control over? > > You are doomed to fail if you encounter anyone or thing that does not embrace the sanctity of human life like the fearful do. Until death no longer exists, fear will lose out to that which does not fear. > > Be very careful of thinking all humans think of the value of human life is as great as you do. This post seems accurate: those who don’t value human life have a distinct advantage over those that do (in a conflict) But what point are you making? How does someone that does value human life use this information to their advantage? ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/30 "2014-07-04T20:54:31Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > This post seems accurate: those who don’t value human life have a distinct advantage over those that do (in a conflict) > > But what point are you making? How does someone that does value human life use this information to their advantage? Other than staying clear of people like me, I can see no advantage for them to have a different in “All life is worth any cost.” attitude in any situation unless they have thought about their position in advance. I see no way they have any advantage for themselves vs me. I am sure their are pluses for both sides but it is colored by what direction you are coming from so to speak. IMO Below may make more clear as to my stance on the non sanctity of human life in direct relation to my life. Self preservation is very strong but it can be overcome by choice by some. Mothers, for their children are most common IMO. ( More instinct than rational thought IMO ) Some people will kill themselves &/or their whole family to avoid running over a squirrel. Some people will kill themselves &/or their whole family to avoid running over a child. Some people will not kill themselves &/or their whole family to avoid running over a child. ← This is my premeditated choice even if the child in the road was mine & I had the rest of the family in the car. If by myself, that choice has changed from when I was 35 to now when I am 71 because of my deliberate choice. This is also very very unlikely to happen but not a zero chance. Well now it is because I have no child living near me. This applies to my child. I have no problem with you choosing differently but choosing to die does nothing for you unless you believe in some after life. The child, wife, some other may gain from it but you won’t. Maybe if you get to lay in a burn ward in agony for 3 weeks before you die, you will be able to feel good about your choice but that is not the choice I would have made. But we are talking life or death as the clean options unless you want to add other stuff. IMO, it is the difference in reactions from society training or religious training and planned reactions by me and my choices to however unlikely events. As I said before, “I may chose to die for you but I’ll be damned if I’ll die because of you.” YMMV 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/31 "2014-07-04T22:19:04Z")
Nah. But I had some favorite uncles that were bikers, and ran an MC, so overall I know they are not necessarily bag guys. Even the bad memories (babysitting for this one couple that, after they arrived home, he tried to beat her to death in front of 15-year-old me) are chalked up as “a few bad apples”. ---
**Author:** ![Absinthe\_Anecdote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f6c823/32.png) [@Absinthe\_Anecdote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absinthe_Anecdote)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/32 "2014-07-04T22:38:34Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > Nah. > > But I had some favorite uncles that were bikers, and ran an MC, so overall I know they are not necessarily bag guys. > > Even the bad memories (babysitting for this one couple that, after they arrived home, he tried to beat her to death in front of 15-year-old me) are chalked up as “a few bad apples”. I’ve watched that television series on FX called Sons of Anarchy, so I’m probably more of an expert on the MC world than you. Plus, I spent a lot of time watching the Devil’s Ride on Discovery channel, so you should instantly give me credibility when I say, " it’s all about loyalty and brotherhood." His “bitch” probably disrespected him in some manner, so you shouldn’t just assume he is a bad apple. Even the baddest apple in an MC is a complex and romantic character who is rejuvenated by riding their bike on the open road, which they call putting their knees in the breeze. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/33 "2014-07-04T23:34:16Z")
> [@Absinthe\_Anecdote](#): > > I’ve watched that television series on FX called Sons of Anarchy, so I’m probably more of an expert on the MC world than you. > > Plus, I spent a lot of time watching the Devil’s Ride on Discovery channel, so you should instantly give me credibility when I say, " it’s all about loyalty and brotherhood." His “bitch” probably disrespected him in some manner, so you shouldn’t just assume he is a bad apple. > > Even the baddest apple in an MC is a complex and romantic character who is rejuvenated by riding their bike on the open road, which they call putting their knees in the breeze. You are definitely more of an expert than I am, with all of that TV under your belt! I am shocked someone just doesn’t patch you RIGHT NOW. Just so no one thinks I am trying to be a badass - the babysitting incident absolutely terrified and scarred me - but I blame that on him being a lunatic, not because he owned a bike and joined a MC. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/34 "2014-07-05T00:00:17Z")
**Poysyn** , you may have been in the Canadian military, the heroes of Vimy Ridge, Dieppe, and most UN peacekeeping forces, and I can’t recall what you are doing now, but you will always be [the cutest teacher in the junior high](http://www.nouilles.info/sdpix/4132a.html) to me. It’s hard to be scared of you. Unless you are armed and on the job. But even then you wouldn’t be as scary as Sister Mary Jane, my sixth grade teacher. She didn’t need a Harley or tattoos to be scary, and she had a hint of a beard, which you lack. 😉 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emtar_KronJonDerSohn)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/35 "2014-07-05T01:14:48Z")
Are there really “bikers” anymore? I have bikes, I like to ride them. If I get up early on my day off I can entertain myself very inexpensively on a mountain road for a few hours. I don’t stab people for grins, I don’t sell meth, I wear sensible textile protective clothing and a full face helmet, and I take a shower every day. The only guy I’ve ever known to self identify as a biker was really saying “yeah, I kind of gave up on myself, but it was _MY_ choice, because, you know, freedom and stuff.” ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/36 "2014-07-05T01:43:02Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > **Poysyn** , you may have been in the Canadian military, the heroes of Vimy Ridge, Dieppe, and most UN peacekeeping forces, and I can’t recall what you are doing now, but you will always be [the cutest teacher in the junior high](http://www.nouilles.info/sdpix/4132a.html) to me. It’s hard to be scared of you. Unless you are armed and on the job. But even then you wouldn’t be as scary as Sister Mary Jane, my sixth grade teacher. She didn’t need a Harley or tattoos to be scary, and she had a hint of a beard, which you lack. 😉 😃 Way to wreck all of my street cred! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/37 "2014-07-05T01:45:17Z")
> [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](#): > > Are there really “bikers” anymore? There are still biker clubs like the Hells Angels, Outlaws and Mongols. I occasionally see clubs like these cruising around the local freeways. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/38 "2014-07-05T05:49:06Z")
[http://outlawbikergangs.blogspot.com/](http://outlawbikergangs.blogspot.com/) [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_outlaw\_motorcycle\_clubs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_outlaw_motorcycle_clubs) [http://listverse.com/2009/08/18/top-10-notorious-american-biker-gangs/](http://listverse.com/2009/08/18/top-10-notorious-american-biker-gangs/) And these lists are not complete. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/39 "2014-07-05T15:05:41Z")
My AA chapter has a meeting for bikers in recovery who are associated with the Outlaws. It’s an odd juxtaposition, trafficking by other Outlaws in coke and meth and these guys. Real nice; hug more than I’m comfortable with, but how do you tell a guy who looks like a cliched murderous thug and goes by the name “Ratchet” (not his real Biker Name–it _is_ AA) that he’s invading your personal space? ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231/40 "2014-07-05T22:42:53Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > My AA chapter has a meeting for bikers in recovery who are associated with the Outlaws. It’s an odd juxtaposition, trafficking by other Outlaws in coke and meth and these guys. Real nice; hug more than I’m comfortable with, but how do you tell a guy who looks like a cliched murderous thug and goes by the name “Ratchet” (not his real Biker Name–it _is_ AA) that he’s invading your personal space? Very nicely… Bawahahaha I am very much a girl hugger than a boy hugger. 😃 I have been to a zilion meetings in full biker gear, spurs jangling, skulls dangling and no one even blinks. All over the country. Now, when I used to get out of the pilots seat, I did get a few odd looks… Bawahahaha 🆒 Is the hug too strong, too often, is the guy a newbie & all super enthused? How much bigger than you. For about 8 years in a few different places I would see this one cute little mouse. Blond, perfect body, great personality, dressed just right, and she would squeal as soon as she would see me, race across the room and launch from about 6 feet away and clamp right to my chest & hug & squeal. I never even thought that it was too much hugging. 😃 In some of the rougher areas some of the women would want us bikers to be escorts to the bus stop or their car, etc. Got lots of hugs that way too. Is it just the one guy? If you don’t want to talk to him, maybe one of his buddies? I would not recommend that, looks pretty wussy, just ‘man up’ and talk to him like a real person. I think you will be surprised. If he stomps you into the ground, let me know where you are & I’ll try to help. After you get out of the hospital of course. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-bikers-do-civilians-fear-you/692231.md?page=3)