Fellow Comic Nerds: Which set of Trade paperbacks should I tackle this weekend?

Cafe Society
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Ranked in order of “Good to read in one sitting,” and not necessarily in order of quality:

Transmetropolitan - I’d start here. It’s one of the shorter reads in the list, fast-paced, funny as hell, reasonably thought-provoking if not especially deep, and gorgeously (and consistently) illustrated. Thematically, it’s the bastard love child of William Gibson and Hunter S. Thompson. Might stir up unpleasant memories of the last election, though.

Hellboy - There’s no over-all arc to Hellboy, although there are a few mini-arcs spread out through the TPBs. All the stories are ultimatly self-contained, and jump back and forth in time to tell whatever story is on Mignola’s mind. Probably the easiest to read in one sitting, but also the least necessary to read in one sitting.

Preacher - This is a pretty hefty read, simply in terms of sheer weight. Also, very much a “guy” comic. A lot of emphasis on standing by your buddies, treating your women right, be a stand-up guy, and kicking in the teeth of anyone who disrespects you and yours. If you enjoy John Wayne movies, even ironically, you’ll probably enjoy Preacher. And don’t let the manly-man stuff fool you. There’s a very strong emotional heart to the piece, that ultimatly proves to be more important to the rather shallow “angry atheist” theme that starts out the series.

The Invisibles - Probably the most complex and demanding work on the list. If you understand exactly what’s going on in the story on your first pass, you are clearly some hyper-advanced mutant with a big veiny forehead and probably psychic powers. On the other hand, comprehension is not a pre-requisite for enjoyment on this title. I originally read the whole series out of order, which might have caused some sort of permanent brain damage. I still fell in love with it. I also still don’t know what the fuck the ending was all about, but I’m pretty sure it was both cool and brilliant. Take your time on this one. Word of warning: the art in some of the TPBs is awful. Don’t let it phase you. The story more than makes up for it, and eventually the art catches up.

Sandman - Without a doubt, the best of the bunch. Don’t read this one all at once. Savor it like fine wine. That’s all I have to say on this title. I don’t need to sell it, it sells itself.

Swamp Thing - I’ve only just started this series myself. Good, so far, but nothing amazing. I’m only one TPB in, though.

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Which version of Swamp Thing? I prefer Len Wein’s original to Alan Moore’s later riffs on it.

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The Moore Swamp Thing is the only thing that’s fully in TPB, Chuck, so I assume that’s what Kaitlyn’s got. (I think there’s one volume so far of the original Wein series.)

Miller, you should check out “Anarchy for the Masses: The Disinformation Guide to The Invisibles.” Lots of interviews and synopses – the guys who put it together have an understanding of the series that make a lot of sense, and Morrison himself thinks the book is a good guide.

–Cliffy

P.S. 3000!

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Sounds cool, Cliffy. I’ll have to check that out.

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SANDMAN is the most literary and cohesive of the comics listed… but “literary” is not the same as “literate.” In SWAMP THING, what Moore does with his prose, dialogue, caption descriptions, character deconstruction, world-building, invented languages, playing with DC mythos, storytelling, POVs, introducing adult themes and horror explorations and plot twists that get pulled out of his arse is amazing. This is the real beginnings of the super-science Batman characterization that joins up with late 90s JLA starts, this is where we get a rougish John Constantine, a truly hellish Demon and a frightening archangel with the Spectre. This is where the Swamp Thing becomes just one more in a series of earth elementals yet so uniquely powerful, so feared that authorities rush to get the opinions of a semi-legitimate Lex Luthor who charges a one million dollar consultation on how to deal with him. Great, great stuff.

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IMO, and YMMV of course, but the thing that opened the door for Richurd Bruning’s (awful, IMO) ADAM STRANGE mini was the whole horrible/damaging notions that Moore set up in that issue of Swampy: namely that A) Rannians were contemptuous of Adam (remember the panel of the Rannians making “monkey faces/gestures” behind Adam’s back?). B) that the only reason Sardath used the Zeta beam was to get an intergalactic stud to impregnate Alanna and C) that Sardath (or someone) made up all those monsters (The Vacuumizers of Vantor, etc) to keep Adam busy and his mind occupied so he didn’t realize he was being used as a stud. Rann was never in danger from them. The Thanagarians as Intergalactic Badasses came from JL of A um…117-119-ish(?) but again, it hadn’t been used much until Moore dug up (and really improved) the concept.

Note that Rann being a post-Nuke society dates from Showcase #17, it’s not Moore’s concept originally, although it was rarely used until Moore revived it.

IMO, Waid undid Adam Strange’s stuff back to JL of A #120 or so when he was moved to Rann full-time. He had to Zeta-Beam again, he was a hero to the Rannians, Sardath was fixed, Allana and his daughter were revived, etc. I’d kill for Waid to write an Adam Strange series. I think he’s the only writer who really “gets” the character.

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Fenris. While I’m playing Ebert to your Siskel, let me say that I found A) to be funny as hell and an interesting, post-modern revelation about Rann and B) I thought was a sensible re-interpretation of Adam’s origins. I didn’t get the impression from C) at all – it was the Thanagarian warrior who was taunting him saying, “Rann needs no protectors – just the fierce vitality of your seed,” which could be taken as the literal truth (dubious) or a vast oversimplication. Given the source, I doubted it was true. I’ve read several Adam Strange stories in which he clearly did protect Rann from genuine threats from outside. I think Moore’s implication that Sardeth controlled the Zeta Beam to the extent that he deliberately sent Adam back to Earth at “awkward moments” was worse, but granted, YMMV.

I’m not surprised other (JLA) writers used the Thanagarians are badasses motif earlier, but I recognize that Alan Moore tweak when I read it (the mind eater weapon and the idea of Aerial Interia Combat.) I did think that Rann’s surviving a nuclear war was an Alan Moore original idea since I was reading WATCHMEN and SWAMP THING back issues at about the same time, so thanks for that correction.

So really, when you get down to it, the only “unique” changes Moore made to Adam Strange mythos were stating 1) some Rannians are assholes who are contemptuous of Adam’s origins and 2) there were ulterior motives behind Adam Strange’s so-called accidental origins. Taken separately or combined, I honestly don’t think these notions hurt the character. In fact, for he and Alanna to love each other so deeply despite their obvious differences of species, culture and physiology makes their relationship all the more poignant.

Richard Bruning’s backstory on Adam Strange’s family history and home life did have a couple of redeemable moments, but the rest was just “meh.”

I’d have to read the current Adam Strange mini by Adam Diggle and Pascal Ferry (which I’ve heard good things from) to get an idea how far Mark Waid dialed back Strange’s retconn, but it’s hard to bottle up an Alan Moore revamped idea once it’s out of the bottle.

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Whereas I thought it was terribly, terribly damaging–Adam as champion of Rann=“iconic concept” Adam as joke that Rannians are contempuous of=“MAD Magazine parody concept”.

It damages the concept though–the key to Adam is that he has to solve the problem within the time-limit. Make the beam Sardath controllable, and you’ve undermined the concept. It doesn’t particularly…offend (for lack of a milder word) me, but I think it hurts the core concept. By way of analogy, any attempt to treat the FF as anything other than a family will fail because the core of the FF is a super-hero family.

I just dug out the issues–you’re right. I’d have sworn there was a comment like “Ha! You think the fact that there’s always a monster that just happens to show up at the same time you do and takes nearly as long to defeat as you have time to fight is a conincidence? Nonsense–the monster is how Sardath gets your blood flowing for your trysts with your alien princess”

–it’s more than “some”. Per Adam, “Why can’t these people handle their own problems? They call me names behind my back: ape, throwback…”

I’ve got some stronger words… :wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

The new series isn’t bad–it’s actually a pretty good story, if you assume it’s about some guy who’s not Adam Strange. The one flaw that every (except Waid!) post-Crisis writer has had made (including Alan Moore) is they they treat Adam like THE ULTIMATES version of Captain America–attack first, think second. Or, “Think about how best to attack, rather than how to solve the problem.” The “real” Adam Strange wouldn’t have just started attacking Swampy for just standing there. If I was a DC editor and someone came to me with an Adam Strange proposal, I’d require them to go 1-2 issues without Adam firing his blaster.

Also the new series messed up Adam’s costume (which is no biggie-the real costume will be back. The classics always return) as badly as that they did in that Daredevil run where he was doing acrobatics in about 40 pounds of body armor.

PS-It’s always fun to discuss/disagree with you! :slight_smile:

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Okay, Fenris. You’ve sold me. While Adam Strange is a man of action, I agree he is best as a thinking “science-hero” first, so you’re absolutely right to be critical of his “blast-first ask-questions later” approach in recent comic appearances. Everything he did to overthrow the En’tarans’ takeover of Rann was predicated on his outthinking them, and it was refreshing to see that kind of cunning and guile. So, from this perspective, maybe (Og forgive me) Moore did screw up that initial encounter in SWAMP THING.

Moore was probably setting up a rationale why the Rannian government would want to lend the Zeta Beam technology in the climax of his never used TWILIGHT OF THE SUPERHEROES proposal, when all those aliens attacked the Earth. (I always loved the idea for this series. If I were independently wealthy I’d pay him to write the whole damned thing as a 12- issue tightly scripted maxi series and then hire George Perez to illustrate the interiors and Alex Ross to do the covers. It’ll be all mine, mine, MINE.)

It is fun to argue/agree with you about comics. I figure I’m going to have to roughly double my reading output of Silver Age stuff to be in your league, though. But I’ll bet I can take you in Milestone comics trivia!

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I’d concede–I never read 'em, mainly because I was really broke at the time and I couldn’t afford a new line (I had to drop a bunch of my regular titles too). At some point I’m gonna go and get some of the back-issues. I really liked the look of the Superman type (with the girl sidekick)

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That would be Icon, Fenris, Justice Clarence Thomas’s favorite comic book. (The sidekick’s name is Rocket.)

–Cliffy

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Cliffy, I knew about Justice Thomas being a fan, but I had no idea Dwayne McDuffie had updated that site with the bit about Icon urging a full manual recount of the 2000 election. Good stuff.

Fenris. You can probably collect the whole Milestone imprint by hunting through quarter boxes. That’s what I’m currently doing and I’ve only got a few gaps in my collection.

**Kaitlyn. ** Sorry. We really hijacked the heck out of this thread, didn’t we? Let us know what set you ended up reading first and how you liked it.

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Sorry I let this go so long without checking in. The Mrs. and I were watching Battlestar Galactica, both showings (cuddled in our chair and a half), because it was seriously freaking her out every time Boomer was on screen. I told her that now she should understand how I feel when we’re watching Enterprise and Hoshi comes on screen.

Back to the subject at hand.

Every set is the complete set. Hoshi (still trying out names for the former Mrs. Six. I’m liking either Hoshi or Wicked Felina, the first because she looks enough like Linda Park that I secretly suspect she may have been cloned, and the second because it would annoy the hell out of her) apparently had no idea what she was buying. She went to Popular Comics on eBay, did a search for trade paperback sets, organized the sets by price, and started buying starting with the most expensive until she reached her budget limit.

Then she did the same with the Hardback sets. She got me the Legion 1-12, Fantastic Four 1-7, and Spider-Man 1-6 sets. That Legion set is awfully enticing, but yeesh, 3000 pages? I think that might tax even my love of everything Legion. Well, except for the newest version; somebody has obviously kidnapped Mark Waid, because he really isn’t capable of writing this badly.

Askia: Don’t worry about it. I love this stuff.

The Preacher and Sandman stacks are about the same amount of reading. I didn’t add them up, but they appear to be somewhere between 2000 and 2500 pages total, with Preacher being slightly less. That’d be a tough read even with the 24 hours I’ll have.

I scored it this way. The first two listed for each suggestion got one point, if only one was listed, it got one point.

Final Tally:

Sandman: 10
Preacher: 8
Transmetropolitan: 7

Mrs. Six starts her first 12-hour shift at noon tomorrow, so there’s still time to persuede me.

There are 11 Transmet books (and they’re tiny, what do they have, like 2 comics per trade?), 1-10 and one numbered 0. Where does the 0 go?

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Ooh, ooh, another vote for Sandman!

Although, whenever I introduced people to the Sandman series, I always started them with “Season of Mists…” Anyway, the first few chapters might seem kind of strange, but once you get to the eighth issue, “The Sound of Her Wings,” whoo. That’s where Gaiman really hit his stride. Have fun!

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Are you implying that I’m some kind of ultra-feminine girly-girl with no interest in typical manly-man things? Huh? Well are you? If you are, that only goes to show that you’ve been reading my other threads carefully and are now plotting to use that information against me. Either that or you’re flirting with me.

Nah, I like a good action story with guys sticking up for thier buddies and doing what’s right, and protectin’ their wimmin folk if it’s done well. I enjoy any story that’s told well enough.

There’s an Isaac Asimov story, “In a Good Cause” I think is the title. The story deals with a statue being erected in honor of a freedom fighter who violently opposed what he felt was an oppressive state, using violence when necessary in opposition–he was, in effect, a terrorist. He failed utterly, and the government he failed to overthrow has created a utopia of peace, plenty, and freedom. He is honored not because he was right, but because he fought honorably for a good cause, and that alone makes him a hero. I like the story a lot, but strongly disagree with it’s basic premise. A fan wrote in to Asimov when he was still writing editorials for Asimov’s saying basically the same thing, and Asimov agreed with him. Asimov himself disagreed with the premise of his own story, but wrote it that way because the story didn’t work otherwise.

What’s my point here? Oh yeah. I like macho action stories, even though I have as thoroughly rejected the whole manly-man attitude as it is possible to do. It’s the quailty of the story I care about.

And that stuff about the story having an emotional core? You think that’s going to make the story more attractive to me because I’m a girly girl and that’s what we like, don’t you? Well, I suppose it’s hard to argue with the truth.

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Darn, I’m too late. I can’t let that stop me from voicing my opinion, though:

Hellboy is the greatest comic book series ever made. Anyone who tells you otherwise, well, I’m sure he means well but he’s mistaken. Mike Mignola is a brilliant artist, of course, and it’s a shame he had John Byrne write the first storyline, because it turns out Mignola’s a brilliant writer as well. He’s got the rarest thing for comic book creators: a pitch-perfect sense of humor. Not too obvious, not too corny, not too desperate to be hip and edgy, just funny. He’s just great at setting up mood, as well – all that Lovecraftian end-of-the-world horror usually never works on me, because there’s no relevance. Mignola knows exactly how to put everything in perspective.

The Sandman is a phenomenal body of work too, of course. I can’t imagine tackling it at this point, though. I keep meaning to dive back into TPB’s, because although I own every issue of the comic, they’re scattered about the United States. I know that I’d enjoy it if I started reading them again, but it just seems like work.

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Damn.

What’s Mrs. Six’s occupation – bank robber?

–Cliffy

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Oh, c’mon. You’re a hot Asian chick who reads comic books. Why on Earth would I want to flirt with you?

:wink:

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She’s a pediatric oncology nurse–she works in a children’s cancer ward.

We’re DINKs (Dual Income professionals, No Kids). This would ordinarily give us a fairly sizable disposable income, but I was improperly terminated last year. When the suit against my school district was settled, (there was no finding of wrongdoing on their part) I got my job back with a pretty good settlement. Enough of a settlement to put us over the top on something very important to me that we had been saving for for several years now, and a little left over. After putting a reasonable amount back for emergencies, we split the rest to buy something frivilous–something neither of us has been able to do for some two years now becuase I’ve been a nearly obsessive miser.

I bought a pinball machine. And a bunch of shoes.

She bought me the comics. And some really nice Egyptian cotton sheets for the bed.

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See, that’s what I’d expect, but all the guys at the comic shop ever do is stare, then look away when I catch them.

I was joking about being offended by the manly-man stuff, obviously, and that is exactly the kind of information that I was looking for to help me make an informed choice, so please don’t take the following as meaning that I was in any way put off by your description.

That said, I’m a bit curious about whether you’d have phrased it the same way a month ago when I was regular guy Number Six, and not self professed girly-girl Kaitlyn. One of the things that intrigues me about my current situation is how men and women are treated differently, and I’m curious as to whether knowing my true gender affected how you decided to describe things. I won’t be offended either way, but it just struck me as a way of putting things that might not have been the same if I’d been a guy.

Everyone: Thank you for all of the input. I had decided to tackle Transmetropolitan first and save the longer, more complex stuff for this summer, or maybe tackle Sandman one book a weekend until I finish it, then reread in one big chunk this summer. I have some major surgery coming up which will involve a quite lengthy recovery, so I won’t be teaching summer school, and will need something to occupy me.

With that in mind, Mrs. Six has enough dough left in her Paypal account to get one more expensive set, or two of the less expensive ones of my choice. Because I didn’t go with the majority on those I already have, I’ll let the majority choose which set will be my last.

Any one of the following:

*Star Wars: A Long Time Ago

Hellblazer

Blade: The Immortal

Lone Wolf and Cub*

Or any two of these:

*Books of Magic

Groo

Lucifer

Elfquest

American Flagg HC*