# Fellow liberals, stop generalizing about the tea party **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 21, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893 "2010-04-21T18:03:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/41 "2010-04-22T01:06:51Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > You lost an election. It’s not the end of the world. It’s not tyranny. You don’t get to hold onto power forever. This is true. Unfortunately for us, that pragmatism doesn’t exist in the general populace. The Democrats will eventually lose as well, and I would expect something similar from them when they lose control. It will certainly not take the same form, but it will exist. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/42 "2010-04-22T01:11:07Z")
Here’s the thing: It’s entirely possible for Clothahump’s claim: > [@](#): > > It is not racist. It is not violent. It is, however, ordinary people like me who are fed up to the gills with the unresponsive attitude of our government. to be one which he is making in an honest and well-intentioned fashion, and for Clothahump himself to in fact not be racist or violent, while simultaneously for **Amulet** ’s question > [@](#): > > So how come you only became fed up to the gills with the unresponsive attitude of our government after a black man was elected? to be a meaningful and interesting one which deserves a response. The conversation between the two of them is a very interesting one which gets at the root of the tea party movement, and I’d very much like to see where it plays out. And, frankly, I’m quite suspicious of a lot of tea partyers, and of many of the apparently organic roots of the tea party movement. The point I’m trying to make in this thread, however, is that neither the existence of **Amulet** ’s question nor individual instances of TPers being extremist are somehow trump cards which prove something about the TP movement as a whole. In other words, it’s important that the question be more like: “It seems to me that you only became fed up to the gills with the unresponsive attitude of our government after the election of Obama. Given that he’s a black man, and given the virulently racist nature of signs carried by at least some members of the tea party, it’s easy for those of us not in the TP to get the impression that the movement as a whole has roots in racism. How do you respond to or address that issue?” as opposed to something like “So how come you only became fed up to the gills with the unresponsive attitude of our government after a black man was elected? Haha, I have proved that all TPers are racist” or “So how come you only became fed up to the gills with the unresponsive attitude of our government after a black man was elected? lol ur a hypocrite” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/43 "2010-04-22T01:25:01Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > On a side note, is it possible to libel against an entire country? Not if it’s Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/44 "2010-04-22T01:27:48Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > We don’t all agree - and that’s OK. We have some broad agreement on some major issues (sound fiscal policy, honest government, end to special favoritism and favor-buying), and can leave the rest. Golly, they sure are inventing a new concept. Up until now I’ve been for irrational fiscal policy, dishonest government, more favoritism and especially favor-buying, but now I’m not so sure. Of course, if you actually laid out a specific policy, I might just not agree. In fact, I’ll bet a whole lot of people wont agree once you get beyond that BS. Instead, they deliberately remain vague so that they can sucker everyone into thinking that they are speaking for them. It’s a political cold reading. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/45 "2010-04-22T01:40:17Z")
[quote=“WarmNPrickly, post:44, topic:536893”] Golly, they sure are inventing a new concept. Up until now I’ve been for irrational fiscal policy, dishonest government, more favoritism and especially favor-buying, but now I’m not so sure. Unfortunately, you seem to do exactly that when pushg comes to shove. > [@](#): > > Of course, if you actually laid out a specific policy, I might just not agree. In fact, I’ll bet a whole lot of people wont agree once you get beyond that BS. Instead, they deliberately remain vague so that they can sucker everyone into thinking that they are speaking for them. It’s a political cold reading. We don’t claim to speak for anyone but ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/46 "2010-04-22T01:44:59Z")
[Senator DeMint to Brody File: Tea Party Movement Will Bring On “Spiritual Revival”](http://blogs.cbn.com/thebrodyfile/archive/2010/04/21/senator-demint-to-brody-file-tea-party-movement-will-bring.aspx) > [@](#): > > Christian Broadcasting Network, The Brody File: > > Senator Jim DeMint: "Well, I think people are seeing this massive government growing and they’re realizing that it’s the government that’s hurting us and I think they’re turning back to God in effect is our salvation and government is not our salvation and in fact more and more people see government as the problem and so I think some have been drawn in over the years to a dependency relationship with government and as the Bible says you can’t have two masters and I think as people pull back from that they look more to God. It’s no coincidence that socialist Europe is post-Christian because the bigger the government gets the smaller God gets and vice-versa. The bigger God gets the smaller people want their government because they’re yearning for freedom. This is not something new under the sun. This is the same shit Reagan, a Republican, pulled in suckering the “Moral Majority” to vote for him. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/47 "2010-04-22T01:53:10Z")
[QUOTE=smiling bandit] We don’t claim to speak for anyone but ourselves. [/QUOTE] Quite right. In fact, thus far you don’t seem to be claiming to be anything at all but a group of concerned citizens in favor of common sense who are angry with the government. How handy. Hard to find controversy with views like that. Even harder to challenge them. Political cowardice at its finest. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/48 "2010-04-22T01:56:35Z")
[FreedomWorks Mar 09, 2009 FreedomWorks Launches Nationwide “Tea Party” Tour Activists from Coast to Coast Mobilize to Oppose Obama and Congressional Democrats’ Bailout Frenzy.](http://www.freedomworks.org/publications/freedomworks-launches-nationwide-%E2%80%9Ctea-party%E2%80%9D-tour) [About FreedomWorks What Others Are Saying About FreedomWorks](http://www.freedomworks.org/about/about-freedomworks) > [@](#): > > ``` > "Folks, you've got to get to know this organization ... They have been doing a great job all over the country educating people." > -President George W. Bush > > ``` Tea party tour -\> Many of the policies _of_ Bush, without any responsibility _for_ Bush Sorry guys, TANSTAAFL. You’re gonna have to take responsibility for the sins of your past before anyone sane’ll give you any respect. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/49 "2010-04-22T02:21:51Z")
Max, let me save you a buncha bother. Idiots are just gonna be idiots. That’s what idiots do. I’ve tried to point out the very thing you are pointing out, and the idiots didn’t want to listen. And you know why? Because they are idiots, and that’s what idiots do. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/50 "2010-04-22T03:35:19Z")
Must’ve missed where you tried to point that out amid all your “liberal douche” comments. Idiots will be idiots indeed. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/51 "2010-04-22T03:36:22Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Max, let me save you a buncha bother. Idiots are just gonna be idiots. That’s what idiots do. I’ve tried to point out the very thing you are pointing out, and the idiots didn’t want to listen. And you know why? Because they are idiots, and that’s what idiots do. Mister Ed? Is that you? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/52 "2010-04-22T03:39:28Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Thank you for posting this. Probably not going to make you any friends among the more obnoxious of your political colleagues, but I appreciate the effort. And I’m not even a Tea Party guy. Just getting really, really sick of the constant mantra of “Conservatives r teh evul” around here. So what, lambasting the Tea Party is the same as lambasting Conservatives? Is it one and the same? What _I’m_ getting really, really sick of is the constant complaint from Conservatives about Liberal trashing of anything on the right, while they refuse to call out obvious crazyness in their own house. As someone in another current thread said, Tea Party attitudes are being fostered and tacitly supported by Republican political leadership. Own it or fix it, but don’t pretend like you don’t support it and then get contrary when people criticize it. Complaints about the Tea Party _don’t have to be about Conservatives or the Republican party_, if only Republicans who know better would stand up and call these people out on those ideas of theirs that are idiotic, prejudiced, and plain wrong, instead of sitting back and just getting pissy when folks without the political capital invested in the Tea Party do it instead. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/53 "2010-04-22T03:48:35Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Can I ask you if you had seen a racist sign, or one claiming the president was a muslim, or communist or something else truly foolish, would you have spoken up to the person carrying it? > > Would you have felt comfortable doing so? Yes, elbows, you may ask. It’s difficult to say. My intention was to go as a detached observer which is what I did. I can say that I certainly wouldn’t have felt comfortable standing in any crowd which displayed signs of that nature and probably wouldn’t have stayed. As far as being “comfortable” confronting intolerance I can hardly imagine it as a comfortable situation ever, particulary if it’s fairly obvious that a person is seeking negative reaction. At my age my fiery idealism is at a mild simmer and I’ve learned not to go to every battle to which I’m invited. It’s best to save my energy for the big stuff (like getting out of bed in the morning and finding my glasses. :D) Have I ever spoken out against ignorance or intolerance? Yes. I’ll also add that it’s usually lurking somewhere in nearly every group of people no matter their political bent. I consider confronting it an art involving living comfortably in my skin and not a political obligation. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/54 "2010-04-22T03:54:10Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > They are not named after teabagging. They are named after the Boston Tea Party. You are familiar with that, I assume? Holy crap, you’re right! I never noticed that before. Thanks man. That was the night Ben Franklin stuck his balls in the mouths of the English right? Is that how he got syphilis? > [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > **Ender** , I suppose I can at least politely thank you for making your opinions clear, as well as that they are deeply-held and not interested in proof or evidence or even meeting us. I will leave you alone, since it’s pretty clear we can have no common ground to meet on. Thing is, there is no “us.” You yourself said there’s really no unifying idea behind all this other than I very basic concepts that pretty much 99% of the world would agree on when you get right down to it. But I can’t meet with “us” because I live in Kansas City and you don’t and me going to a Tea Party event here would be a completely different thing than your Tea Party event or the Tea Party events in a dozen other cities. Because there’s no unifier. It’s a bunch of random people who are all angry at…something…and a bunch of billionaires and politicians manipulating you into being angry at Democrats as Republicans had nothing whatsoever to do with bad government for the last decade and a half. But I can try. Maybe. I’d go to a Tea Party protest and see what it’s all about up close and personal. Problem is there’s no real official website is there? That’s because there’s no real official Tea Party with actual leaders either elected or appointed who head the organization. I have the option of donating to the Tea Party causes I suppose but where does that money go? To what purpose? Ah, quibbling details. So if I wanted to find out when the next Tea Party event is here in KC, help me out. Because I’m at a loss on where to turn and how to find out more about my local organization up close and personal. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Max, let me save you a buncha bother. Idiots are just gonna be idiots. That’s what idiots do. I’ve tried to point out the very thing you are pointing out, and the idiots didn’t want to listen. And you know why? Because they are idiots, and that’s what idiots do. I agree wholeheartedly. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/55 "2010-04-22T04:18:17Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > There are [two](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12361492&postcount=1) [threads](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12343798&postcount=1) on the front page of the pit right now which both seem to be saying the same thing, namely “well, there was some dispute about whether the tea party (as a whole) is really as racist and right-wing-extreme-wingnut as some narratives would have us believe. Well, here’s some incident involving some finite number of people which proves that this view is true. QED.” Agreed. We should not dismiss the Tea Party movement as bigoted wingnuttery based on anedotal evidence. We should do it based on statistical evidence. > [@](#): > > Last week, the ongoing debate over what we know about the tea partiers took a new turn, with scores of conservative commentators like The LA Times’ Andrew Malcolm and Glenn “Instapundit” Reynolds assuring us that a new Gallup poll proves the TPers are not a “fringe” or “racist” group. > > But the Gallup results only confirm that tea partiers are “mainstream” in their demographics, when what really matters are their attitudes. Results released Friday of a new multi-state poll of white voters conducted by the University of Washington’s Christopher Parker paint a more complicated picture. The survey asked white respondents about their attitudes toward the tea party movement–and their attitudes toward non-whites, immigrants and homosexuals. > > The charts contained herein show the disparity between whites who strongly approve and disapprove of the tea party movement. In a few cases – attitudes toward Latinos, for instance – the differences were small. But only in a few cases: tea party sympathizers believe blacks are less intelligent, hardworking and trustworthy. They appear to be particularly wary of immigrants. And they don’t much care for gays, either. (Although note that two-thirds of them support gays in the military, an issue on which policy has long lagged public sentiment.) > > Again, this is a comparison of white attitudes, not differences between whites and non-whites. Which means that avid white tea party sympathizers do not even hold mainstream attitudes among whites. If we included the attitudes of non-whites, the views of white tea party sympathizers would be even more aberrant. > > Some conservatives believe there is a systematic attempt to demonize the tea party movement and their supporters. There is probably some truth to that. But in the same vein, aberrant opinions espoused by tea partiers or their sympathizers should neither be ignored nor papered-over. > > Parker’s study shows much higher levels of intolerance among whites who sympathize with the tea party movement. To be clear, the splits compare those who strongly disapprove or approve of the tea partiers, so the differences reflect those whites with polarized attitudes toward the movement. And the study might be more instructive if it compared compared the tea-partiers views toward those of white conservatives or white Republicans, or differentiated between those who are merely empathetic toward the tea-party movement and those who have actively participated in it. But it’s safe to say that those who are sympathetic to the tea party movement do not hold mainstream views on issues related to race and identity politics. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/56 "2010-04-22T04:21:17Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > We don’t claim to speak for anyone but ourselves. Who’s “we”? The Tea Partiers certainly do claim to speak for all “real Americans”. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/57 "2010-04-22T04:29:30Z")
There are certainly Tea Party groups that are not spouting violence and racist shit. The problem is that many of these same groups _claim_ that their aim is to curb government excess by both Democrats _and_ Republicans, and yet their meetings often end up being little more than a political rally for the Republican Party. Which sort of gives lie to their claims that the protests are not narrow party political exercises. There was a so-called Tea Party tax protest here in San Diego on April 15, at which one guy said that they were “trying to bring the Democrats and the Republicans back into control.” And yet there were a whole bunch of Republican Party signs at the protest, a Republican candidate for US Senate spoke at the rally, and the main organizers of the rally seemed to be members of the Republican parties of various local colleges. Signs included “We ❤ Carly” (Carly Fiorina, Republican candidate for Senate), “Students for Carly” and “NOBAMA.” I have no problem with people who want to vote against Obama and the Democrats, and no problem with people who want to vote Republican. I just wonder where all these folks were when Bush was racking up the deficits, and am skeptical, to put it mildly, of their claims that they are just as concerned about Republican spending as Democratic spending. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/58 "2010-04-22T04:32:39Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Complaints about the Tea Party _don’t have to be about Conservatives or the Republican party_, if only Republicans who know better would stand up and call these people out on those ideas of theirs that are idiotic, prejudiced, and plain wrong, instead of sitting back and just getting pissy when folks without the political capital invested in the Tea Party do it instead. When are y’all gonna start calling out the assholes on your own side, right here on this very board? People that say things like all Christians (feel free to substitute conservatives, gun owners, Republicans, people that aren’t fucking crazy) are inherently evil, stupid, mean, nasty, and otherwise unpleasant company. Stop them from sniping at us, and maybe we can talk about other stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/59 "2010-04-22T04:36:23Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > So if I wanted to find out when the next Tea Party event is here in KC, help me out. Because I’m at a loss on where to turn and how to find out more about my local organization up close and personal. Here ya go: [http://teapartykansascity.ning.com/](http://teapartykansascity.ning.com/) > [@](#): > > This website community is for patriotic Americans from all walks of life. We are from all parties and affiliations: Conservative, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, Moderate. We are here to preserve our Constitution upon which this great country was founded. We are taking our country back from the many corrupt politicians in Washington and here in the heartland. We are patriotic Americans that love this great land. We want to pass on a better America to our children. Stop spending Washington! No more bail-outs! No government run healthcare! No government takeover of ANY private companies! No Czars! No lies! We want true and honest government! We want honest transparency! We are mad as hell! Power-hungry politicians BEWARE…November is just around the corner and “We the people” will be heard. It will be a November you will NEVER forget! It’s an obvious Republican front; eg “WHAT WOULD REAGAN DO?” on page 1. Running from responsibility for the Bush disasters must feel _really good_ when it’s cloaked in such noble sounding rhetoric! It’s probably as addictive as heroin, if not more so. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893/60 "2010-04-22T04:39:31Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > …Stop them from sniping at us, and maybe we can talk about other stuff. And if we don’t, you stop talking to us? Well, damn, you drive a _hard_ bargain… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-liberals-stop-generalizing-about-the-tea-party/536893.md?page=4)