# Fellow Obama-ites: let's be nicer to tighty righties **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2008, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332 "2008-09-06T12:28:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/61 "2008-09-07T03:17:45Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Hey, can I play? I’m havin’ a salad and some nice Pinot Grigio as we speak. 😃 you bring the brie, I’ll bring the fruit. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/62 "2008-09-07T03:22:37Z")
Yum! Fuck all this political shit, it’s Saturday night! Let’s just get together as human beings and have a good time! My salad has spinach, butter lettuce, cranberries, walnuts, chicken, feta cheese and big ol’ helping of raspberry vinagrette dressing. There’s plenty for everyone! But you have to bring your own wine! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![as\_u\_wish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6f9a4e/32.png) [@as\_u\_wish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/as_u_wish)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/63 "2008-09-07T03:35:27Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Trust me, we’ve lost a lot of very good conservative posters. > Or maybe the ones that are left are just more thick-skinned or stubborn and refuse to concede the ground. > > The notion that the facts are all on your side is exactly the kind of close-minded dogma that I’m talking about. The minute you start believing your own press and assume that there’s no question you are right is the minute you stop learning and just become another voice in the echo chamber. I’m certain that statement won’t change your mind, because that partisan quip indicates that your mind is no longer capable of being changed. > > I for one don’t think all the facts are on my side. I think some are. I’m a libertarian-conservative because I think on balance my analysis of what works and what doesn’t leads me there. But I’m not dogmatic about any single fact. I read a lot of conservative journals and books, and I’m fully aware of the power of confirmation bias. That’s why I come here. When I formulate an opinion, I have a strong desire to test it against others who don’t share the same beliefs to see what I may have missed. > > Someone above just said that conservatives are unwilling to admit that Palin has any shortcomings. Well, that’s what a combative message board does - it polarizes people. My wife and I just finished having a nice calm discussion about Governor Palin’s various faults over supper. I certainly recognize them. Unfortunately, serious, reasoned discussion of them is impossible here, because I know the other side would not discuss them in good faith, or reciprocate with an honest discussion of Obama’s faults so that we could bat them back and forth like adults and educate ourselves. Instead, there would be jeering and sneering and anything I offered up would be used as ammunition against me and the other side would still give no ground. > > The result is that the only debate that’s possible here is adversarial debate, where each side stakes out their unbending opinion and seeks to tear down the other side. It’s better than nothing, but it could be so much better if everyone was willing to behave like there was at least an outside chance that they don’t have all the answers and that the other side is populated by evil troglodytes who simply must be crushed at all cost. > > I started out the McCain/Obama debates by declaring that I didn’t really have a favorite, and that I saw lots to like in Obama and lots to dislike in McCain. But the arguments for Obama and against McCain quickly became so strident and over the top that I along with everyone else was forced to choose a side and hold my ground with the rest. It’s either that, or be steamrollered. > > That too is a damned shame. > > It may be an unavoidable problem on a large message board. This may sound ‘elitist’, but far too many people hold incredibly strong political opinions based on sound bites and snippets of ‘facts’ they hear from their side. They are completely unable to hold a serious intellectual debate on the underlying issues or treat the subject with any kind of nuance. So perhaps it’s not surprising that when challenged they just become more strident and yell louder. > > The level of anger someone brings to a debate is often correlated with a weak understanding of what it is they are debating. They are insecure and have no depth to their strongly-held beliefs, and have no choice but to defend them by dismissing the other side completely. It’s the internet equivalent of putting your hands over your ears and going, “lalalalalala”. There are people like this on both sides, and perhaps when a message board reaches a certain level of popularity you collect enough of them that they simply drown out the debate. > > Just try to not be one of them. Another quiet voice chiming in to thank you, **Sam Stone** , for saying what I wish I’d said. We have much political diversity in our family. Long ago we established the ground rule that all political discusion must be carried on with civility. The moment voices are raise or it becomes personal, we stop the discussion. There’s so much incivility in the political and religious discussions on this message board, that I read but don’t choose to participate. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/64 "2008-09-07T06:49:14Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yum! > > Fuck all this political shit, it’s Saturday night! Let’s just get together as human beings and have a good time! > > My salad has spinach, butter lettuce, cranberries, walnuts, chicken, feta cheese and big ol’ helping of raspberry vinagrette dressing… I had figured on fava beans and a nice chianti… ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/65 "2008-09-07T08:24:21Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > To do that, you have to start from a position that A) they aren’t stupid, and B) they aren’t evil, and C) that they honestly want the best outcome for the country, just like you do. If you can do that, you have a chance to be enlightened a little. I will happily agree with A) and B). C) has not yet been sufficiently demonstrated to my satisfaction, such that I _can_ give them the benefit of the doubt in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/66 "2008-09-07T08:27:16Z")
> [@Darwins\_Finch](#): > > I will happily agree with A) and B). C) has not yet been sufficiently demonstrated to my satisfaction, such that I _can_ give them the benefit of the doubt in that regard. I’m surprised that you accept B) but not C). Are we talking about the average Joe Republican/Conservative messageboard poster? What do you think they _do_ want? ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/67 "2008-09-07T08:59:26Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > I’m surprised that you accept B) but not C). Are we talking about the average Joe Republican/Conservative messageboard poster? What do you think they _do_ want? It seems to me that they are more interested in their own self-interests, not what is best for the country as a whole. I don’t think that makes them necessarily _evil_, just…selfish. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/68 "2008-09-07T10:51:12Z")
> [@Darwins\_Finch](#): > > It seems to me that they are more interested in their own self-interests, not what is best for the country as a whole. I don’t think that makes them necessarily _evil_, just…selfish. And every once in a while, you can actually find them confirming **Darwin’s Finch** ’s small point, as when \*\*Renob \*\*repeatedly (in the GD thread about taxes) insists on keeping his own personal taxes to an absolute minimum and angrily refusing to concede that he benefits, directly and indirectly, from living in a prosperous country with social programs concerned for the sick and the elderly and the poor. His idea (and I’m just using him as a convenient example of a much more widespread stance that I see around me every day) is to forget utterly the larger context in which he earns his money and to want his taxes to support only those programs that he can see directly serving his own goals, like a huge army, to prevent another country from conquering the US and confiscating his money, or federal highways, to build and maintains the roads he personally drives on. But everything else? What use is it–it doesn’t do him any good (that he can see, touch, feel, on a daily basis) so he wants to pay for none of it. That’s a pretty, narrow, selfish, limited viewpoint, IMO. Anyway, I’d rather restrict that side-topic to its own thread, but am using it here as an example of a political belief that has its roots in character, not ideology. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/69 "2008-09-07T12:48:15Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > You know, somewhere out in the intertubes right now there’s a Republican message board having the same discussion about you - how you’re obviously wrong, you don’t have a clue, you’re stupid, and there’s nothing at all of merit in your positions. > > And they’re just as wrong as you are for believing it. Maybe you’ve missed out on the past eight years? The present Administration has done as thorough a test of the Republican approach to governing as could possibly be imagined under a two-party system. you can either believe the results, or not. > [@](#): > > You need to step out of the echo chamber sometimes and listen to the other side with respect. Not just for ammo to refute them, but to seriously understand their point of view. > > To do that, you have to start from a position that A) they aren’t stupid, and B) they aren’t evil, and C) that they honestly want the best outcome for the country, just like you do. If you can do that, you have a chance to be enlightened a little. Look, the Dope isn’t an echo chamber. If conservative ideas were actually better, if they’d been _working_ the past eight years, there’d have been plenty of opportunities for you to have the best of the argument. But the record is clear. Iraq, whatever the truth of the situation now (and “the surge worked” is true only in limited respects), has been a fucking disaster, and rather than nailing down the victory in Afghanistan in 2002 and 2003, we were prepping for the war in Iraq and then invading, so Afghanistan’s been a 7+ year war instead of a one-year war. We had no idea about Russian troop movements toward Georgia because our spy satellites were focused on Iraq. It’s been the Disaster That Keeps On Giving - like Sarah Palin, only with serious consequences. The right-wing response to this? “But The Surge Worked.” Plus the usual denigration of diplomacy. What enlightenment waits there? And then there’s the domestic disaster that caused people to realize that, regardless of the parade of happy talk from the Administration, things in Iraq must be fucked. I refer to Katrina. This Administration fucked the preparation, the immediate response, and of course the longer-term response. The GOP response, and the response of conservatives generally, has been to defend whatever the Bush Administration was doing _now_, while admitting that they’d blown things earlier on. But have they even asked for an _investigation?_ Joe Loserman, who’s officially one of yours now, said while campaigning in 2006 that he’d investigate the Bush response to Katrina, but changed his mind once elected. Again, I’m not seeing much potential for enlightenment. ‘The economy’ worked for some people during the Bush Administration, but the vast majority of Americans didn’t get much out of it, based on median incomes, poverty rates, and all that boring stuff. The chainsawing of regulations led to the current mortgage crisis. In the long run, if we want to buy stuff from the rest of the world, we’ve got to produce goods and services that the rest of the world wants to purchase in return. It’s hard to see how we’re making progress there, but ginormous tax cuts and the mortgage bubble helped Americans maintain the illusion that they _could_ keep buying for a few years longer. The conservative response seems to be even bigger tax cuts, even fewer regs, and of course the privatization of Social Security. Where’s the enlightenment? Global warming is probably the biggest global threat of our times. The Bush Administration’s response has been to do essentially nothing. Much of the Right’s response over the past several years has consisted of denial. McCain, simultaneously being unaware that U.S. oil production peaked in 1970, and having lost the thread that the primary problem is the carbon itself, rather than where it comes from, wants us to drill everywhere. (Hell, he doesn’t even realize that the ‘cap’ part of cap-and-trade is a mandatory cap on carbon emissions.) I’m waiting for the conservative outrage, but I don’t see it. The National Review Online created a new branch of their website a couple of years back, and is still going strong, called [Planet Gore](http://planetgore.nationalreview.com/). Because, y’know, the only thing to do with Al’s ideas on the environment is ridicule. The National Review is of course Bill Buckley’s rag, the supposed intellectual heft of the right. The one idea I can see that the right has contributed to the game is that we ought to be more open to construction of nuclear plants than the left has historically been. But you know what? The conservatives on this board have been able to win that point, _because for once they had a good argument_. It’s not like that one got shouted down. Heck, I’d be interested to know of _any_ arguments of significance on this board that the lefties have won by virtue of numbers, rather than by virtue of argument. If you know of any, **Sam** , please bring them to my attention. > [@](#): > > Do you know why I hang out on this message board, despite the constant sneering jibes and angry attacks I suffer for just making my opinion known? Because it beats the hell out of hanging out in an echo chamber, being slapped on the back by fellow travelers. You learn _nothing_ that way. You know, that’s why us lefties hang out here too. But having hung out here and in the lefty blogosphere, I can tell you that there’s a fair amount of debate on many lefty blogs, much more than on most righty blogs. (Hell, most significant righty blogs, like Instapundit or NRO, either don’t allow comments, or, like Redstate, will kick you out for taking a left-of-center position too often.) While the level of agreement on basic principles is much higher in the lefty blogosphere than it is here, there’s still a lot of vigorous debate on a host of secondary principles and particulars. Lefties, as a rule, _like_ to argue. This has long been one of the reasons why nobody ever _expected_ a high degree of unity from the left for the longest time. > [@](#): > > If you can’t air your ideas in front of a critical audience and defend them, perhaps they need a little work. If you want to tighten your thinking and expose your own logical flaws, don’t give your thoughts to people inclined to give you an atta-boy - give your thoughts to the people disposed to picking them apart and telling you why you’re wrong. Who says we can’t, or don’t? > [@](#): > > There seems to be an attitude on this board of late that the conservatives who are here are the enemy, that they’re annoying gadflies who must be mocked and driven away so the right-thinking people can get back to telling each other how smart they are. That attitude comes from intellectual weakness. If you can’t tolerate, with good grace, respect, and humility, people who oppose what you have to say and are willing to defend the opposing point of view, then perhaps your opinions are not as solidly grounded as you believe they are. Besides the recent **Bricker** threads (in which **Bricker** claimed that (a) the Palin threads here were somehow unreasonable (I’m still going ‘huh?’ on that one), and (b) on account of that, he was justified in voting against Obama because he’d failed to sufficiently enlighten his supporters, I don’t see it. And he _earned_ that pile-on. > [@](#): > > I believe the increase in partisanship we’ve seen in the internet era has to do with the Balkanization of political dialog. We all used to start by getting our information from the same sources, and we’d diverge in opinion from there. Now, we all have our own biased sources. We all used to have to debate in the same public sphere, where you had to show tolerance for the opinions of others (and _hear_ the opinions of others). That at least forced a little healthy introspection. But now the righties run off to Free Republic and watch Fox News, and the Lefties run off to Kos and watch Keith Olbermann, and they all close themselves into their little echo chambers and work themselves into a froth. I’d spend a lot more time in places like NRO, if they allowed comments, because I’d love the opportunity to respond to the stuff that Jonah and Ramesh and K-Lo and the others say, and see if they’ve got any answers. I’m good for debate with conservatives; that’s one reason I keep coming back here. But like Atrios, I long ago got tired of hearing bullshit over the teevee, and not being able to do more than shout back at the screen. If the more ‘responsible’ righty sites (I ain’t going to Freeperville, thanks) aren’t interested in hearing opposing views, then fuck 'em. > [@](#): > > The SDMB was always a board in the middle - a last bastion of independent debate where both sides could duke it out and find out what makes each other tick. That was an extremely valuable ground to hold - one that’s increasingly rare. It’s also one that has the best chance to promote the philosophy of this board, which is to fight ignorance. > > Unfortunately, that role is almost gone. The right has been slowly pushed away from this board for several years, and the left’s growing demographic strength and increasingly hostile attitude is accelerating the pace. Soon, it will be yet another tiresome echo chamber of the left, with everyone repeating the same arguments uncritically to each other and patting themselves on the back for being so obviously right and smart that opposing viewpoints need not even be considered. > > And that’s a damned shame. I think you’re totally wrong here. As I see it, it’s all about the failure of Bushism, and the failure of the GOP and conservatism in general to put much daylight between it and the Bush policies. The problem has really been that the things we’re debating have been artificially skewed so far to one side by the dominant presence of the Bush policies in our debates, that _of course_ there’s only a few of you on one side, and most of us on the other. Obviously if McCain wins, and governs on what he’s run on, then the current trend will continue - because insanity consists of pursuing the same failed courses of action over and over again, and expecting them to work this time. \* As long as we’re debating Bushism or a close equivalent, it’s a pretty one-sided debate. We can’t help that. \* There’s no way we can subsidize arguments that have largely been proven false by recent history. If Obama wins, the center of debate will shift to the left, and there will be multiple sides to most debates again. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/70 "2008-09-07T13:32:40Z")
Here’s a quiet thank you to **RTFirefly** , for making an ever so pitch perfect post, since we are now apparently doing this kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/71 "2008-09-07T13:39:16Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Here’s a quiet thank you to **RTFirefly** , for making an ever so pitch perfect post, since we are now apparently doing this kind of thing. I second that emotion. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/72 "2008-09-07T13:52:31Z")
I thought of doing the “me too” thing, but I may have hit my quota with the nod to **Knorf** earlier. Excellent post though, **Rufus**. ---
**Author:** ![A\_shameful\_cracka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@A\_shameful\_cracka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_shameful_cracka)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/73 "2008-09-07T14:20:05Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Do you get the feeling that Obama does or doesn’t understand that? I acknowledge that he _disagrees_ with that prioritization, but I don’t see any indication that he doesn’t understand it. I just feel that, if the Democratic party gave up on, or at least tried to compromise more, on the gun control issue, they would win a lot of converts. I think this would be a wise move, as I honestly don’t think the proliferation of firearms is a cause of crime problems in the USA. Nearly all crime is committed using weapons that the Democrats aren’t even trying to control, the assault weapon ban is ridiculous for this reason. Few gang bangers are using rifles of any sort, and the Democrats seem to realize that going after pistols and shotguns is going to alienate even more people. Cities that have tried stricter gun control (i.e. Washington D.C. and Chicago) have higher violent crime rates than comparably sized cities with less gun control. I think it’s time to admit that gun control is about as effective as the War on Drugs, and give it up. I think that if Obama said that he was no longer going to support any weapon bans and fight any attempts to reduce the availability of firearms to citizens, he would win in a landslide, then he could work on attacking the root causes of violence (War on Drugs, poor education in the inner city, and limited economic opportunities for the poor). I honestly don’t believe that Obama is going to be able to take away my guns, even if he gets two terms, and I’m going with him this time because I think the Republicans have gone too far in nominating Sarah Palin to a position where it seems likely she could become president sometime in the next few years, but I would be more enthusiastic about that choice if I didn’t have fears that he might move us closer towards a situation where my children or myself might not be able to have guns in the future. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/74 "2008-09-07T14:42:10Z")
The best way to decrease violence in America is have an economic recovery which raises up the poor and middle class. I think more than just you and I understand that, **a shameful cracka…** , and I think Obama’s counting on that. While I agree that any “assault weapons” ban is purely cosmetic and will have no affect on real crime, I don’t think it’s a show stopper for most of the “undecided” demographic Obama needs to win the election. It’ll definitely turn single-issue voters away from Obama, but lacking any vehemently _pro-gun rights_ history, he would only have a small percentage of those votes in any case. On the other hand, it’s a red meat\* issue for some on the left side of the aisle, so from that standpoint it energizes that section of the Democratic base. They were going to vote Obama any way, but this just makes it more likely they’ll actually vote instead of staying home. For people like me (OK with self defense and hunting, but not a gun enthusiast), it’s not a factor at all. \*[sub]Or maybe tofu…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/75 "2008-09-07T14:47:05Z")
Well said,\*\* RT.\*\* Some pop psychology: I have never been clear on whether it’s the disagreement with their positions that bugs Republicans more or the fact that their positions are disapproved of. We(liberals) had to put up with some of their positions and decisions because of their being in power, but we never approved of those decisions. Somehow this wasn’t good enough. Now that that balance of power may change, IMO, the Reps look back with some bitterness that their idyll didn’t last (and didn’t work). To admit this is anathema to them, so they not only play the victim card, but stay actively hostile to those whom they deign unworthy to replace them. Or something like that. End of pop psychology. For all his eloquence and civility here, **Sam Stone** (post #29) is still just pointing a finger. Where is the ownership of the conservative’s part in the snark? Most of us enjoy some good snark and I don’t want that to end (necessarily), but too much is too much, no matter what side it comes from. Despite the change in tone, **Sam** is still castigating “us” (or attempting to) from some perceived higher ground. All that he said can be as aptly applied to the conservatives here (and in RL in general)–if that is what he meant, I missed it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/76 "2008-09-07T15:12:15Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > I thought of doing the “me too” thing, but I may have hit my quota with the nod to **Knorf** earlier. Excellent post though, **Rufus**. Thanks (to you, and Hentor and ETF and eleanor too!), and welcome back! I missed the wine-and-cheese party in this thread last night, but if anyone wants to join me for coffee out on the back deck, y’all are invited! Hanna passed through yesterday and washed the world clean, and this morning, it’s one of those picture-perfect mornings: sunny, clear, dry, the perfect balance of warm and cool. Everyone grab a cup of coffee, spread some cream cheese on a bagel, and keep me company. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Suse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Suse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suse)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/77 "2008-09-07T16:35:20Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Well said,\*\* RT.\*\* > For all his eloquence and civility here, **Sam Stone** (post #29) is still just pointing a finger. Where is the ownership of the conservative’s part in the snark? Most of us enjoy some good snark and I don’t want that to end (necessarily), but too much is too much, no matter what side it comes from. Despite the change in tone, **Sam** is still castigating “us” (or attempting to) from some perceived higher ground. All that he said can be as aptly applied to the conservatives here (and in RL in general)–if that is what he meant, I missed it. That is what he said. Of course in this thread he was speaking to Obama supporters because that is the intended audience of the thread, per the title. But he made it clear in the first two paragraphs that he was speaking of both sides. If you want respect, if you want posters to listen to your side of the argument, you first have to give those things. I’m not seeing it from either side on this board (with Sam’s posts here being the exception) ; it is more strident and obnoxious from the Obama supporters this election, though, probably because of the decided tilt to the left of the board. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/78 "2008-09-07T17:02:44Z")
> [@Suse](#): > > If you want respect, if you want posters to listen to your side of the argument, you first have to give those things. Here’s the problem. Let’s just look at what’s happened on the SDMB since September of 2001. We’ve given consideration, as a group, to the following ideas, and some of the board’s most respected left leaning members (not me) dispassionately discussed their merits and treated them as respectable and arguable concepts:[ul][li]the idea of nuking Afghanistan and Pakistan,[_]the practicality and effect of decimating the population of Afghanistan in the Roman sense of that word,[_]the idea that we should deliberately stay ignorant regarding the grievances and aspirations which generate recruits for terrorist organizations,[_]the idea that our country should torture suspects and deny them due process,[_]the idea that we should invade a country which had never attacked us, depose its leader and occupy its lands because we _suspected_ they might have nerve gas and might want to develop nuclear weapons.[/ul][/li]Fuck that shit. How we handled these ideas on the 'Dope was infinitely more thorough than they were handled in the national press, but it reflected the same legitimization of the absurd, and our country and the world have suffered greatly because of that American inability to reject stupidity and thuggishness. My advice: If someone comes up to you holding out a dog turd and expecting you to buy it, _don’t take it from him and examine it for quality_. Push the dangerous lunatic away and keep an eye on the sonofabitch. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/79 "2008-09-07T17:14:59Z")
The problem on the SDMB (and probably this type of environment in general; I doubt it’s exclusive to the straight dope), is that moderate comments get completely ignored. People have learned - consciously or not - through a reward system of being paid attention to, that the more extreme the comment, the more plentiful the responses. It doesn’t matter if the responses are positive or negative, just like some kids are just as happy to get attention for doing something bad as for doing something good. There is no room for moderates here. The funny thing is that in the real world, most people are moderate. That’s what kills me when people try to act like this board is an accurate representation of life offline. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332/80 "2008-09-07T19:23:02Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > The problem on the SDMB (and probably this type of environment in general; I doubt it’s exclusive to the straight dope), is that moderate comments get completely ignored. People have learned - consciously or not - through a reward system of being paid attention to, that the more extreme the comment, the more plentiful the responses. Bingo! Someone can post a careful analysis of Jewish influence in american media and get no responses. Someone else can post “Jews control all media!”, and get a ton of responses. Maybe not the best example, but the overall point **Cisco** is making is correct. It reduces the motivation of many posters to post long, well thought out, posts. If you’re just talking to the wind, why post? And it increases the motivation for extreme, black-and-white, statements. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-obama-ites-lets-be-nicer-to-tighty-righties/462332.md?page=5)