# Fellow progressives: Aren't you missing the point with your opposition to voter ID? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 19, 2013, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624 "2013-08-19T09:03:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/81 "2013-08-19T21:32:34Z")
Well, its possible! It could happen that some tiny number of fraudulent votes in a very, very, _very_ close election could determine the outcome! Worse, those votes will probably be for Democrats, because that’s who fraudulent voters will vote for. And besides that, CASA, ACORN, George Soros and Jane Fonda. You just have to connect the dot! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/82 "2013-08-19T21:37:45Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m not suggesting that voter id’s are the solution. As far as I’m concerned they won’t solve the issue any better than the current valid id’s recognized for most voters. But I’m hearing you both say that there are voters being rejected for their skin color and likelyhood to vote for Democrats. Not on a large scale quite yet, since until the recent Supreme Court decision the voter ID laws kept getting shot down. Voter ID laws are always racist and designed to suppress the Democratic vote; if they are allowed to be implemented as people here are saying we should, then you’ll gut the Democratic and especially minority vote across the country. It would be Jim Crow II; over large swaths of the country there will be nothing but white voters. And large scale violence, since you are telling much of the population that they can’t vote because they aren’t white. And the only “problem” that voter ID solves is Republicans not getting elected because they are bigots. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/83 "2013-08-19T21:48:01Z")
It’s really pretty simple. Only one side, the one losing national elections, wants voter ID. They hadn’t said anything before this. That is enough for anyone with a brain to figure out that they are doing it for their own benefit and not to stop any problems. And **Bricker** is on record as saying he’s okay with Republicans disenfranchising voters, and is on record saying he would not discuss the topic in this thread, despite choosing to do so, so there’s no point in arguing with him. He is not looking for a debate. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/84 "2013-08-19T21:59:29Z")
In the case of Texas, the problem is multiplied by the geographical fact that Texas is very big and mostly empty. If you live in Dime Box or Pumpville, you might have to travel ten miles to get to where you can catch a Trailways or Greyhound, which will take you to an actual town, where maybe you can connect to a city. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/85 "2013-08-19T22:04:01Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It’s really pretty simple. Only one side, the one losing national elections, wants voter ID. They hadn’t said anything before this. Oh, but they have said before- the other way. Republicans have always been _opposed to_ any sort of national ID. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/86 "2013-08-19T22:23:26Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > What’s going to be required is that we - the progressives of the USA - again rise to the occasion and make sure that our voters get their IDs and get to the polls and vote. We need to continue doing that so that we can eventually turn the tide in the 2020 elections and begin working redistricting in our favor for once. Our opponents completely beat us there and we’ll be years paying for it. Yes, this. Fortunately, these decennial elections, like Senate ones, alternate between presudential cycles (when Dems are strongest) and off year cycles (when right wing nutbags are at their peak). And 2020 will be our turn. > [@elucidator](#): > > Most likely, we wouldn’t be including provisions to make voter registration drives more difficult and potentially criminal. Definitely we would not be including provisions that have _nothing_ whatever to do with voter id, like cutting back on early voting and the Sunday voting drives so popular among black people. Right, and opposition to those measures does not have anything to do with opposition to voter ID. It goes both ways. This is true in a pure practical sense, but more importantly in terms of salesmanship. If Democrats are seen to be like “okay, sure let’s have better ID” while adamantly opposing the other measures you mentioned, they may get some traction with the latter opposition among the general public. By opposing all of it with the same urgency, they just come across as opposing anything that might hurt their election results, and it tends to make the truly egregious stuff you mentioned get lumped in with the reasonable-sounding measures. Very bad strategy. If I were a Republican watching this happen, I would be giddy like Brer Rabbit. > [@elucidator](#): > > And **Slack**? With all due respect, your plan puts the cart before the horseshit. Yes, we want to do these things, they are good and worthy. But we have to get there first! This way, you end up saying that we can remove the bowling balls tied to our shoes just as soon as we win the fifty yard dash. I am not so pessimistic about Democrats’ ability to win elections with voter ID laws in place. Many of these people do not vote already; they apparently can still vote absentee; they often are in jurisdictions where Republicans win easily anyhow or where CBC members have safe seats. And I am also not so pessimistic about Democrats’ ability to organise and get IDs to these folks just the same way as they did a brilliant job registering black voters in the '60s and then again in the past few years, to the point where African-Americans voted at a higher percentage than whites for the first time in American history (despite, it should be pointed out, a number of laws having been passed between 2010 and 2012 that were quite transparently designed to suppress minority turnout). Given that, now is a time for us to have a can-do spirit rather than a defeatist attitude. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Did you actually read Carter’s report? What Carter said was that he supports voter ID laws as long as they have safeguards against disenfranchisement. He does not endorse the current voter ID programs. He says they disenfranchise legitimate voters. I did read it and that is my position too. However, I see precious little sign of this position among the blogospheric left. It’s mostly just dig in your heels intransigence. And that is not how are you shape the final form of legislation, by opposing it unconditionally. When it has broad support among the public, that is the most foolishly impotent stance you can take. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Of course; the majority of Americans are bigots, and see it as a way of re-introducing Jim Crow, which it is. I am generally not an optimist when it comes to the majority of the American people, given that I am an atheist and can find most places in the world on a map, both of which place me at odds with the American majority. But I think this statement is nevertheless hyperbole. How do you explain that only two presidents in the past 70 years have won two consecutive elections with more than 51% of the vote in each, and one of them was Dwight Eisenhower and the other one was Barack Obama? That is not a sign of a country in which the majority are bigots. Reading the rest of your post, though, it sounds very paranoid, frankly. Reminds me of the people who 10 years ago were sure that Bush and Cheney were going to institute martial law and never allow any further elections. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/87 "2013-08-19T22:44:03Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > … of my fellow progressive … No. And don’t call me “Fellow”. Voter supression is racist bulshit fostered by dumb assholes who have realized too late that the people that have been the targets of said racism, are not going to vote for the racists responsible for the targeting. Dumb fuckin republicans. It’s like pointing a gun at yourself, and being surprised at what happens when the trigger is pulled. That’s how dumb the proponents of this idea hope the rest of us are. Otherwise, if we had the life experience of, say, a 10 year old, we’d see through it. It’s an awesome way for delusional republicans to display their racism, while denying it all the while. Cute, if it weren’t so hateful… I mean, fearful. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/88 "2013-08-20T00:11:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Voter ID laws are putting a Band-Aid on a problem that doesn’t exist. More like bloodletting to cure a problem that doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/89 "2013-08-20T00:57:45Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > …I am not so pessimistic about Democrats’ ability to win elections with voter ID laws in place… Not at all pessimistic. Wouldn’t really cut any shit if I were, wrong is wrong. This bullshit is wrong. Pretty much that simple. If the Republicans had wanted to, they could have put together a voter ID bill that I could support, nothing to that, easy peasy. Ideally, a combination outreach program, assertively and actively providing voter ID to all registered voters while actively registering new voters at the same time. Gee, doesn’t that sound swell, hundreds of thousands of new voters, all totally ID’d? Go ahead, guess who doesn’t much like that idea. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/90 "2013-08-20T01:02:21Z")
> [@bump](#): > > If you want to vote bad enough, you’ll make it happen. Everyone else has to take time off work to get their DL or get it renewed every so often, so what’s so special about poor people in that regard? > > DPS offices are NOT that far apart; if places like Caldwell AND Bryan, or Cleburne AND Hamilton have them (both sets of cities roughly 20 miles apart), they’re making a pretty concerted effort to be convenient. You’re not getting it because you’re looking at it on a micro level. _Millions_ of people will have to take that bus ride in order for the Democrats not to lose a sizable chunk of their voting base. No amount of effort from the top is going to get more than, say, 30% of the ID-less to go out and get one who otherwise wouldn’t. And what about the guy who simply lost his wallet a couple of days before election day? The bottom line is that on any given election day, there will _always_ be a sizable number of eligible voters who lack IDs for any number of different reasons. None of them should find themselves unable to vote. IIRC, one of our founding principles is, “Better a guilty man go free than an innocent man be imprisoned”. You’d think a similar principle would apply to voting, and yet for every fraudulent voter we’re disenfranchising tens–hundreds–of thousands? ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/91 "2013-08-20T01:03:32Z")
Can’t we just ask them their mother’s maiden name or the name of their first pet? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/92 "2013-08-20T02:06:57Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > No. And don’t call me “Fellow”. What is your objection to being called “fellow” (as a gender-neutral adjective, just to be clear)? > [@elucidator](#): > > If the Republicans had wanted to, they could have put together a voter ID bill that I could support, nothing to that, easy peasy. Ideally, a combination outreach program, assertively and actively providing voter ID to all registered voters while actively registering new voters at the same time. Then you should support that alternative rather than simply shouting “no” and playing right into their “Brer Rabbit” hands. In a few years this will all be academic anyhow, as it will be trivial to establish identity with biometric scanners (retinas, fingerprints, or DNA). Will anyone here object to that? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/93 "2013-08-20T02:27:51Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I did read it and that is my position too. However, I see precious little sign of this position among the blogospheric left. It’s mostly just dig in your heels intransigence. And that is not how are you shape the final form of legislation, by opposing it unconditionally. When it has broad support among the public, that is the most foolishly impotent stance you can take. You can’t reach a compromise with people who have no interest in reaching one. If you offer to meet somebody who’s intransigent halfway, they’ll just take everything you offer them and give you nothing in return. What the Democrats need to do is stop letting the Republicans tell the story. The Democrats need to explain to the public why the Republican position is wrong. They need to take control of the issue and put the Republicans on the defensive. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/94 "2013-08-20T02:30:09Z")
We could just agree to eat their shit sandwich in the hope that they might be willing to negotiate over the issue of mayonnaise. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/95 "2013-08-20T02:31:49Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Then you should support that alternative rather than simply shouting “no” and playing right into their “Brer Rabbit” hands. It’s not an alternative since under no circumstances will the Republicans support such a law. The moment the courts force a voter ID law to be non-discriminatory, the Republicans lose interest in it. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > In a few years this will all be academic anyhow, as it will be trivial to establish identity with biometric scanners (retinas, fingerprints, or DNA). Will anyone here object to that? Pointless because if they work, they won’t be allowed. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/96 "2013-08-20T02:38:42Z")
> [@bump](#): > > If you want to vote bad enough, you’ll make it happen. Well-informed voters often have reservations concerning all the candidates, and may thus be ambivalent about voting. Whereas the people who want to vote really badly may be partisan hacks. I don’t think there’s a practical way to stop people who want to vote bad enough from voting, but, in theory, it sounds good to me. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/97 "2013-08-20T02:46:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You can’t reach a compromise with people who have no interest in reaching one. If you offer to meet somebody who’s intransigent halfway, they’ll just take everything you offer them and give you nothing in return. What the Democrats need to do is stop letting the Republicans tell the story. The Democrats need to explain to the public why the Republican position is wrong. They need to take control of the issue and put the Republicans on the defensive. **Little Nemo** , am I correct that just in the few years I’ve been reading SDMB you’ve largely switched from GOP-leaning to Demo-leaning? Welcome to the Light! 😃 IIRC, you once identified as Republican but posted a “platform” I agreed with but for one exception. (You were against gun control and considered it an important issue. I am slightly pro-control but regard it as an unimportant issue.) ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/98 "2013-08-20T03:05:36Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > So your way of bringing them “into full participation in society” is to take away their right to vote? :dubious: This is similar to my immediate reaction. By all means, fix the alienation-from-the-economy problem, but while we’re doing that, don’t further alienate them by not letting them vote. I think even a sincerely intended, justly administered ID requirement is more effort than the problem it is meant to solve really demands. That I have yet to see any proposed that I am confident is sincerely intended or will be justly administered only makes it worse. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > Note that one of the points made in the story was that some people didn’t get hurricane disaster relief because they couldn’t read or write. The anti-voter ID crowd, it seems to me, are analogous to someone who hears that and says “I’m outraged–we must stop discriminating and provide disaster relief to the illiterate”. I say, “Jesus fucking Christ, this is the 21st century and we are the richest nation on earth–how about we insist on 100% goddamned literacy in this country just to start off with?!?” Well … yes. I mean, illiteracy is a problem, and a system that’s failing people to the point that they can’t even read or write is a problem, but if someone’s house was washed away, that’s a more immediate problem. Teach them to fish, by all means, but while they’re learning, they should also be able to eat for those initial days. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > appearing to be so vocal about standing up for the right to vote without ID (which looks mighty fishy and “machine-like” to Ma and Pa Swing Voter) If you hadn’t assured me that you’re a progressive I might have interpreted this as political concern trolling of a piece with “if the Republicans want to win an election again, they should simply reverse their positions on everything.” Either that or the lurkers support you in e-mail. What you are missing here, I think, is this: there are not widespread reports of massive voter fraud, let alone the specific types of voter fraud that an ID requirement would conceivably solve. So it’s not like there’s some obvious problem that Republicans are being proactive on while Democrats are either ignoring or decrying without suggesting any solutions. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Agreeing to voter ID laws will achieve the outcome of having fewer people vote without doing anything to change their life circumstances. I guess he’s saying that people who are alienated from society will stop being alienated if we threaten to disenfranchise them. I am skeptical of this. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/99 "2013-08-20T04:34:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > What the Democrats need to do is stop letting the Republicans tell the story. The Democrats need to explain to the public why the Republican position is wrong. They need to take control of the issue and put the Republicans on the defensive. And the only way to effectively do that case like this is to co-opt aspects of the story they are telling and then shift them, at least nominally, into the package you want. This just seems blindingly obvious to me, Politics 101. (Or Dale Carnegie, really.) This is exactly why Obama for instance always has some caveats about cutting waste in government programs where multiple programs could be combined to one, etc., but then pivots and describes a bunch of areas where government investment is needed. A decade ago Rove displayed the power of this approach by packaging unpopular things (giveaways to Big Oil and other polluters) in soothing Orwellian packages (“Clean Skies Initiative”). Progressives need to get a little craftier about this stuff. They won’t admit it, but I guarantee you the smarter conservatives reading this are thinking “uh oh, don’t listen to that guy…please”. > [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > If you hadn’t assured me that you’re a progressive I might have interpreted this as political concern trolling of a piece with “if the Republicans want to win an election again, they should simply reverse their positions on everything.” Either that or the lurkers support you in e-mail. Can you flesh this out? I don’t quite see what you are getting at, but you have piqued my curiosity. > [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > What you are missing here, I think, is this: there are not widespread reports of massive voter fraud, let alone the specific types of voter fraud that an ID requirement would conceivably solve. Not missing this at all. I just don’t find it a compelling point. It is such a trivial and banal point, in fact, that it is embarrassing to see so many people jump up-and-down as if reciting this is the holy Grail that will vanquish their opponents. I’m literally\* torn between yawning and wincing. > [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > I guess he’s saying that people who are alienated from society will stop being alienated if we threaten to disenfranchise them. Oh, FFS. I think you know very well I am saying nothing of the kind, and you’re just trying to get my goat. \*New school “literally”, natch. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/100 "2013-08-20T05:02:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Do you really think handing somebody an ID card is going to improve their life in any meaningful way? If somebody doesn’t have an ID card because they’re poor and uneducated and lack opportunities, they’ll still be poor and uneducated and lack opportunities after you give them an ID card. > [@njtt](#): > > So your way of bringing them “into full participation in society” is to take away their right to vote? :dubious: > [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > The laws that are being enacted are about voter ID, so that’s what people argue against. Voter ID is an immediate issue with a very simple solution for opponents, so it’s very easy to be loud about it. > > What’s my solution to laws that require photo ID for voting? Get rid of them. > What’s my solution to crippling poverty and social alienation? That’s bad, so…do…stuff? Strike 1 Strike 2 Strike 3 3 for 3, way to miss the point. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624.md?page=6)