# Fellow progressives: Aren't you missing the point with your opposition to voter ID? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 19, 2013, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624 "2013-08-19T09:03:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/101 "2013-08-20T10:34:11Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Strike 1 > Strike 2 > Strike 3 > 3 for 3, way to miss the point. :rolleyes: Looked more like three solid hits to me. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/102 "2013-08-20T14:32:05Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Looked more like three solid hits to me. Indeed. I believe the current term is “barreling the ball.” As in, hitting the ball squarely with the barrel of the bat. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/103 "2013-08-20T17:40:54Z")
This is all very heartening, if you look at it carefully. And by “carefully”, I mean focusing with rigid exclusion entirely on the voter id element. True, the justification for it is vapid and meaningless, and its true intent clouded by a fog of self-righteous hypocrisy, but standing alone, it isn’t so bad! Its only when you take the whole thing in its entirety, with all the attendant provisos and regulations, that the full rottenness of this corrupt political maneuver becomes apparent. And it saves them from the embarrassment of trying to pretend that curtailing early voting, blocking Sunday voting, looking to make it difficult for college students to vote, all of that, is somehow defensible. Rather than the venal, cynical, and depraved grasp for undeserved political power that it really is. So, I can readily see why someone might want to pretend that such is the case. The only thing wrong with that is that it just ain’t so. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/104 "2013-08-20T19:17:53Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > **Little Nemo** , am I correct that just in the few years I’ve been reading SDMB you’ve largely switched from GOP-leaning to Demo-leaning? Welcome to the Light! 😃 > > IIRC, you once identified as Republican but posted a “platform” I agreed with but for one exception. (You were against gun control and considered it an important issue. I am slightly pro-control but regard it as an unimportant issue.) You know the phrase “all politics is local”? That pretty much explains me. I’m a Republican but I’m a New York Republican. It’s still a relatively sane party in local politics even if it’s gone crazy on the national level. Although even here things are going downhill. The Tea Party sees New York as a target and is trying to get its followers to supplant the sane moderates. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/105 "2013-08-20T19:24:45Z")
If you are going to impose some arbitrary restriction like “sanity”, I suppose thats your business. Just to remind, that is precisely why the Democrats are forced to limp along without _my_ support. Just sayin’, is all. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/106 "2013-08-20T20:34:46Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I’m surprised that multiple people seem to have interpreted me this way; but apparently I should have stated this in bold lettering in my OP. Well, you _did_ ask some people to not participate… ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/107 "2013-08-20T22:03:38Z")
[quote=“SlackerInc, post:92, topic:666624”] What is your objection to being called “fellow” (as a gender-neutral adjective, just to be clear)? \*\* “Fellow progressives: Aren’t you missing the point with your opposition to voter ID?” \*\*One ( me ) might wonder why your title didn’t say “aren’t we” and “with our”. Having read your post, of course, is why I don’t wonder. I think that you are Progressive in the same way that Conservatives actually conserve anything outside of their own bank account. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/108 "2013-08-23T07:47:57Z")
What I really can’t comprehend is why so many Republican citizens as a whole don’t seem to feel any humiliation or shame at the GOP efforts to disenfranchise non-whites and young people. It hasn’t been that long since both parties encouraged each other to vote. How can they be called “The **Grand** Old Party” if they have to cheat to win? I have a birth certificate and and a marriage license. That’s not accepted here. My passport is about to expire. I have a voter registration card, but it has no photo. I’ve lived at the same address in the same precinct for 28 years. I’ve worked in multiple campaigns and once served as a hostess at a fund-raising dinner for my Congressman. I have an expired Tennessee State Teaching Certificate, but it has no photo. I receive my pension from the State, but no photo ID was required for that. I once worked at a polling place in a small down. The ballot was very long. I started working when the polls opened in the morning and I worked all day, through the night, all of the next morning and two hours into the afternoon with only a short break for lunch. And I knew well before we finished that the encumbent Senator, a personal friend, had lost the race already. Hmmm… My orthotics that were cast and made by my podiatrist have my initials engraved. Think that would help? The only reason that I can still vote is because the State of Tennessee allows for absentee voting for people over a certain age. I’ve voted in every Presidential election since LBJ ran for office in 1964. Thank God I’m old and decrepit. I would just like for all of my former students to be able to vote too. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/109 "2013-08-23T09:15:42Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > One ( me ) might wonder why your title didn’t say “aren’t we” and “with our”. > Having read your post, of course, is why I don’t wonder. > I think that you are Progressive in the same way that Conservatives actually conserve anything outside of their own bank account. It wasn’t “we” and “our” because I am not one of the majority of progressives who take this tack. But I see you have taken the liberty of purging me from the progressive movement. How nice. I wonder: how much do you expect to get accomplished by refusing to ally with people who agree with you on 90% of the issues? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/110 "2013-08-23T16:01:11Z")
The OP is a prime example of that unfortunate tendency of progressives to insist on best-case solutions to problems. In this case, the contention is that it’s wasted effort working to resist voter ID laws when we should instead be working towards improving the economic condition of the poor who don’t have IDs (never mind the elderly, invalids, or young people who are changing addresses a lot). It’s the same mindset that led people to vote for Nader in 2000. If they can’t get everything they want, they don’t want anything at all. I imagine they believe that this attitude represents a more strategic mindset, more of a long view approach to solving society’s problems. What it actually represents is a poor understanding of politics, a childish conception of what democracy entails, and a cruel disregard for those negatively affected by policies or elected officials that they were too “pure” to compromise on. You see it during every election. Candidate X doesn’t come close enough to my ideals or my particular policy obsession, so he’s a squish and I’m going to waste my vote on the Green Party candidate, even though next to no effort was made in the intervening period to build the alternative party candidates into a viable caucus within the Democratic coalition. Then the Republican will win, things will end up worse, underpants gnomes will get involved, and the next election a more “perfect” candidate will get the nomination. It’s why progressives get looked upon with suspicion by liberals. Not because progressives are too leftist, but because their dogged fealty to their supposed ideals never seems to redound to the benefit of the broader Left. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/111 "2013-08-23T16:33:17Z")
Their “supposed” ideals? Perhaps you can expand a bit on the list of ideals that you suspect are not sincerely held. I have held roughly the same set of ideals for quite some time now. Perhaps at one point in time they were merely a means by which I could make contact with hot young radical women . Somewhat pointless now. I still meet them, of course, but now they call me “Sir” and offer me their seat on the bus. I am on the conservative wing of the extreme left, and have always more or less assumed that my ideals were sincerely held, so this comes as something of a surprise. If you would be so cruel, perhaps you will be more specific? And liberals? Feh. Radicals hack the path into the wilderness, progressives build the campsites and the cabins, the liberals show up when the hot showers and wi-fi have been installed. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/112 "2013-08-23T16:43:50Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > The OP is a prime example of that unfortunate tendency of progressives to insist on best-case solutions to problems. In this case, the contention is that it’s wasted effort working to resist voter ID laws when we should instead be working towards improving the economic condition of the poor who don’t have IDs (never mind the elderly, invalids, or young people who are changing addresses a lot). Wait a moment, which of those is the best-case solution? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/113 "2013-08-23T17:27:03Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Their “supposed” ideals? Perhaps you can expand a bit on the list of ideals that you suspect are not sincerely held. I have held roughly the same set of ideals for quite some time now. I’m almost certain what I said doesn’t apply to you. But I also tend to be a bit suspicious of individual progressives. Their ideas are often attractive in theory, but a lot of them make little provision for reality. Which is fine, nothing wrong with pie-in-the-sky thinking to expand some horizons. But if your idealism causes you to disdain politics and the thanklessness of getting things done in a democracy (for the non-plutocrats at least), then your ideals really don’t amount to jack shit, because you’re not getting anything done. It’s like this hyperloop thing that Elon Musk is pushing, a high speed tube transit system that could shuttle you from LA to San Fran in 30 minutes. It _sounds_ amazing, like actual Futurama-type stuff that we could have. But there are fundamental problems with his proposal. Aside from questions of [technical feasibility and whether the service promises are realistic](http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/19848/musks-hyperloop-math-doesnt-add-up/), there’s [the cost of the real estate](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/08/12/a-hyperloop-might-be-far-more-expensive-than-elon-musk-thinks/) for the pylons to be built on. You might be thinking “So what? At least he’s trying to think big.” The problem is that Elon Musk is Chairman and CEO of Tesla Motors, and this hyperloop idea was presented as an alternative to a high speed rail project under consideration that is much more fleshed out. Now maybe Elon Musk really believes his idea is better and as feasible as the HSR project. Then again, maybe he’s just trying to throw a monkey wrench into the public discussion of the project because he doesn’t actually want to see a HSR project completed, because he’s in the business of selling automobiles. No way to know for certain. But can you understand the suspicion? > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Wait a moment, which of those is the best-case solution? From the OP’s perspective, solving poverty so that everyone can afford to have an ID, so that voter ID laws become a trivial issue, is the best case. Problem is, we’re not going to solve poverty in the near future. In the meantime, there’s the question of whether American citizens will be prevented from exercising their right to vote. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/114 "2013-08-23T17:52:06Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > I’m almost certain what I said doesn’t apply to you. But I also tend to be a bit suspicious of individual progressives. Their ideas are often attractive in theory, but a lot of them make little provision for reality. Most things progressives want for the U.S. are things that have been tried and work in other countries. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/115 "2013-08-23T18:24:12Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > What I really can’t comprehend is why so many Republican citizens as a whole don’t seem to feel any humiliation or shame at the GOP efforts to disenfranchise non-whites and young people…I would just like for all of my former students to be able to vote too. We have not lost, dear heart. I can’t say we’ve won, or even that we are winning. But we have not lost. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/116 "2013-08-23T18:27:53Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > What I really can’t comprehend is why so many Republican citizens as a whole don’t seem to feel any humiliation or shame at the GOP efforts to disenfranchise non-whites and young people. Bear in mind that enfranchising them in the first place was controversial. And I’m sure there are still some Pubs who long wistfully for the days of property-qualifications. I’ve actually read arguments for that on Free Republic. And see Matthew Vadum in post #64 above. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/117 "2013-08-24T00:09:54Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Thank God I’m old and decrepit. Maybe we should push for an exemption for everyone born before a certain date. That seems a large piece of the problem and might get some public opinion traction. > [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > The OP is a prime example of that unfortunate tendency of progressives to insist on best-case solutions to problems.[…]It’s the same mindset that led people to vote for Nader in 2000. If they can’t get everything they want, they don’t want anything at all. Are you actually talking about me here? I have been bemoaning the purists who make the perfect the enemy of the good for a decade now over at Daily Kos. (Same username.) For example: > **[Let's hear from the loyal Democrats](https://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/03/1013315/-Let-s-hear-from-the-loyal-Democrats#)** > > I can't be the only one left, even though it sometimes feels that way, especially lately. So it would be a shot in the arm for me personally to hear from some others. > > I define myself as a "loyal ... ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/118 "2013-08-24T01:19:50Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Are you actually talking about me here? I have been bemoaning the purists who make the perfect the enemy of the good for a decade now over at Daily Kos. (Same username.) For example: > > [Let's hear from the loyal Democrats](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/03/1013315/-Let-s-hear-from-the-loyal-Democrats#) Okay, fair enough. I’ll simply note that I disagree with the thrust of your OP. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/119 "2013-08-24T02:46:23Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > … for a decade now over at Daily Kos. (Same username.)… You needn’t tell us, we know who you are. Where you live. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624/120 "2013-08-24T13:56:33Z")
Elucidator, I haven’t lost hope yet. The violation of rights is blatant and GOP schemes so transparent. Surely, someone in the judicial system can set things right again. I just hate to see that there is still more prejudice than I had thought. And I wish I could be more active in fighting these efforts to supress voting for several groups. What GOP states are doing is so outrageously “unAmerican” in my thinking. I just hope this is not the new American value system. The issue of voting rights for people of color was never controversial in our family. But I’m seeing the old “disconnect” from word and deed. I think of the man in our church who sang solos from the choir. It was always “Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me.” The same man said that he would like to run a bayonet through some non-whites. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-progressives-arent-you-missing-the-point-with-your-opposition-to-voter-id/666624.md?page=7)