# Fellow Trump voters: How do you think the Donald is doing so far. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 10, 2017, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849 "2017-03-10T07:38:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/181 "2017-03-11T19:01:05Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > 60% of eligible voters participated in this election. In total, there are 231,556,622, millions of whom did not participate. > > 63 million over that 231,556,622 is 0.27, or 27% of eligible voters who elected Trump president. > > America is a nation of 320 million people, and 242,470,820 adults, but millions of them don’t vote in elections. 63 million is 26% of the adult population. > > For some of them, it’s because they’re under 18, for others it’s because they’re currently in prison and can’t vote, or they’re felons who have been released from prison but live in states without felon voting rights. > > All in all, I still think it’s impressive. Yes, more people did vote against Trump in Republican primaries than for him, however he still got the most Republican primary votes than any other Republican ever to run for President—13.3 million. That you think it is impressive is not that impressive. You don’t seem to bother factoring in a lot of things when you formed your opinion. Chief among them is that the population of the country has grown since every other Republican nominee ran for POTUS. Your use of raw numbers is, IMO, misleading and ignores much in order to be able to try and present them as somehow indicative of something positive. When taken as a percentage of voters and eligible voters, Trump’s numbers come up short (just like his fingers). ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/182 "2017-03-11T19:01:48Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I glad we can all agree on who’s to blame for this shit show. If you want to blame anyone for your candidate losing, blame the Democratic-leaning voters who decided to stay home because HRC wasn’t an inspiring figure. Trump only won Michigan by 11,000, if a few more decided to show up, Hillary could have won that state (although she still would’ve lost the presidency). Same with Wisconsin. In Milwaukee, a liberal Democratic bastion, a lot of voters didn’t show up either, and some of the ones who did actually voted for Trump, attracted by his trade message. ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/183 "2017-03-11T19:04:12Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > So explain why that’s significant. I’m sure he got far more votes than Lincoln or FDR. Does that mean he’s better or that there are more voters? > > He also set a record in the primaries for the most vote against. Impressive? Or an equally misleading (and pointless)statistic? Yes, the U.S. population has increased in recent years. However, in 2012 and 2008 both Republican candidates were unable to surpass Bush’s 2004 popular vote high for a Republican, and Trump did. That’s why it’s impressive. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/184 "2017-03-11T19:12:01Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > If you want to blame anyone for your candidate losing, blame the Democratic-leaning voters who decided to stay home because HRC wasn’t an inspiring figure. Trump only won Michigan by 11,000, if a few more decided to show up, Hillary could have won that state (although she still would’ve lost the presidency). Same with Wisconsin. In Milwaukee, a liberal Democratic bastion, a lot of voters didn’t show up either, and some of the ones who did actually voted for Trump, attracted by his trade message. She deserves some of the blame, but far more of the blame goes to the voters who ignored/made excuses for Trump’s incredible lies (including the racist and evidence-free lies about Obama that propelled him to political prominence), or ignored/made excuses for the many racist/misogynistic things he said during the campaign. I wish she had run a better campaign (and it was so close that only a slightly better campaign in WI, MI, and PA would have won it for her), but the majority of the blame goes to the ones who voted for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/185 "2017-03-11T19:12:10Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > Yes, the U.S. population has increased in recent years. However, in 2012 and 2008 both Republican candidates were unable to surpass Bush’s 2004 popular vote high for a Republican, and Trump did. That’s why it’s impressive. The US pop. has increased in every year. [From here.](http://www.politifact.com/north-carolina/statements/2016/jul/08/donald-trump/donald-trump-set-record-most-gop-primary-votes-eve/) > [@](#): > > But 13 of his 16 challengers didn’t make much of a splash. The top three challengers, however – Ted Cruz, John Kasich and Marco Rubio, in that order – combined to receive more than 15 million votes. He got less than half the votes. Explain why that’s impressive. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/186 "2017-03-11T19:13:01Z")
I take it, then, that you have no comment to offer on his assertion that three to five million illegal votes were cast for Hillary? Good. See, you’re getting smarter already! Your rebuttal is flimsy, but not _that_ flimsy. ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/187 "2017-03-11T19:29:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I take it, then, that you have no comment to offer on his assertion that three to five million illegal votes were cast for Hillary? Good. See, you’re getting smarter already! Your rebuttal is flimsy, but not _that_ flimsy. I don’t believe millions of illegals voted for Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/188 "2017-03-11T19:30:27Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > And to Johnny Ace, I agree that the Iraq War was a big mistake, and that the overeager neoconservative zealots in the Bush Administration left a massive taint on his legacy by endlessly cheerleading for it, at times with heavily exaggerated, or outright false, evidence. > > I’ll give the Democrats that; the Republicans who voted for the Iraq War have a lot to answer for as well. According to the Phase II report on the “case” for the Iraq War, “the Administration repeatedly presented intelligence as fact when in reality it was unsubstantiated, contradicted, or even non-existent.” As opposed to the overeager conservative zealots in the Trump administration? \ Bannon \ I have to say, that’s a new tack; instead of total denial, it’s “it wasn’t us, it was them…” Well…new in that for once it’s not the Democrats you’re blaming. Sorry, you don’t get off the hook that easily. It was overwhelmingly Republicans, by a margin of 263-7 in both houses, who did that. Not neocons, Republicans. And if you use the excuse that they were fooled, how do you have the balls to say that Hillary was any different? Care to answer anything else? ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/189 "2017-03-11T19:49:33Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > As opposed to the overeager conservative zealots in the Trump administration? \ Bannon \ > > I have to say, that’s a new tack; instead of total denial, it’s “it wasn’t us, it was them…” Well…new in that for once it’s not the Democrats you’re blaming. > > Sorry, you don’t get off the hook that easily. It was overwhelmingly Republicans, by a margin of 263-7 in both houses, who did that. Not neocons, Republicans. And if you use the excuse that they were fooled, how do you have the balls to say that Hillary was any different? > > Care to answer anything else? Bannon is a conservative, but I wouldn’t classify him as a “conservative zealot.” He diverges from classical Republican orthodoxy in some ways, such as in trade and domestic spending for infrastructure. I’m not excusing the Republicans who voted for the Iraq War, as I said. And neither am I excusing the Democrats. A majority of Senate Democrats voted for Iraq as well. It was pretty gratuitous to see Hillary Clinton using Khizr Khan and his wife to further her political interests, after all their son died because of the Iraq War which she voted for. And before you tell me Trump supported the Iraq War, it wasn’t fullthroated “support”, it was an “I guess so” in a September 2002 interview with Howard Stern, which is a tepid endorsement at best. In a January 2003 interview with Fox News’ Neil Cavuto, Trump changed his mind and made clear that he wasn’t a supporter of the Iraq War effort where Trump said:[“Perhaps he shouldn’t be doing it yet. And perhaps we should be waiting for the United Nations.”](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/27/2003-clip-backs-up-trump-on-iraq-war-opposition.html) His stance can obviously be interpreted as leaning towards opposing it. January 2003 was two months before March 2003 when the Iraq war officially began, so it was correct for him to say he was against the Iraq war before it began, while Hillary voted for it. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/190 "2017-03-11T19:57:21Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > Bannon is a conservative, but I wouldn’t classify him as a “conservative zealot.” He diverges from classical Republican orthodoxy in some ways, such as in trade and domestic spending for infrastructure. > > I’m not excusing the Republicans who voted for the Iraq War, as I said. And neither am I excusing the Democrats. A majority of Senate Democrats voted for Iraq as well. > > It was pretty gratuitous to see Hillary Clinton using Khizr Khan and his wife to further her political interests, after all their son died because of the Iraq War which she voted for. > > And before you tell me Trump supported the Iraq War, it wasn’t fullthroated “support”, it was an “I guess so” in a September 2002 interview with Howard Stern, which is a tepid endorsement at best. > > In a January 2003 interview with Fox News’ Neil Cavuto, Trump changed his mind and made clear that he wasn’t a supporter of the Iraq War effort where Trump said:[“ **Perhaps** he shouldn’t be doing it yet. And **perhaps** we should be waiting for the United Nations.”](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/27/2003-clip-backs-up-trump-on-iraq-war-opposition.html) His stance can obviously be interpreted as leaning towards opposing it. > > January 2003 was two months before March 2003 when the Iraq war officially began, so it was correct for him to say he was against the Iraq war before it began, while Hillary voted for it. Which is a tepid denouncement at best. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/191 "2017-03-11T20:11:41Z")
[Bannon’s goal](http://fortune.com/2017/02/25/bannon-trump-cabinet-cpac/) is “deconstruction of the administrative state”. No, no conservative ideologue he. ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/192 "2017-03-11T20:17:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [Bannon’s goal](http://fortune.com/2017/02/25/bannon-trump-cabinet-cpac/) is “deconstruction of the administrative state”. > > No, no conservative ideologue he. It’s the goal of every conservative to take a chomp out of the Big Government apple. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/193 "2017-03-11T20:20:34Z")
To _deconstruct_ it? :dubious: These people do say what they say, not what you wish they’d say. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/194 "2017-03-11T20:22:57Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > I don’t believe millions of illegals voted for Hillary. Then he was mistaken? Just a goof, a slip of the lobes? When did he come around on that, I think I missed it. At any rate, he did not get majority of the votes cast. Now, if you believe as I do, that the foundation of political power is, or at least, _ought_ to be…the will of the people. It is not legitimate to impose a major set of changes without a majority of that power. Basically, its cheating, its using legality to deny justice. He does not have a mandate from the people but usurps that power without a legitimate basis. He ought not to do that. With me so far? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/195 "2017-03-11T20:27:08Z")
Dude. It’s called _lying_. He does it. A _lot_. Why choose to let him fool you? ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/196 "2017-03-11T20:32:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Then he was mistaken? Just a goof, a slip of the lobes? When did he come around on that, I think I missed it. > > At any rate, he did not get majority of the votes cast. Now, if you believe as I do, that the foundation of political power is, or at least, _ought_ to be…the will of the people. It is not legitimate to impose a major set of changes without a majority of that power. Basically, its cheating, its using legality to deny justice. > > He does not have a mandate from the people but usurps that power without a legitimate basis. He ought not to do that. > > With me so far? I get what you’re saying, But Hillary didn’t receive a majority of the vote either. She received a plurality. A majority who be higher than 50.00%. She only got 48%. No candidate received a majority in this election. I don’t consider it cheating, given how the Electoral College has been the way we elect our presidents for over two centuries, and the wisdom of the Founding Fathers in not allowing big states–such as California–too much power over the other states was resolute. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/197 "2017-03-11T20:41:28Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > I get what you’re saying, But Hillary didn’t receive a majority of the vote either. She received a plurality. A majority who be higher than 50.00%. **She only got 48%**. No candidate received a majority in this election. > > I don’t consider it cheating, given how the Electoral College has been the way we elect our presidents for over two centuries, and the wisdom of the Founding Fathers in not allowing big states–such as California–too much power over the other states was resolute. And Trump only got 46%. Which is _less_. Why do you keep harping on Trumps vote counts when he got fewer votes? When will you understand that despite winning the Presidency, he has more people against him than for him? He does _not_ have a mandate to steamroll the opposition. He _is_ supposed to be the President for the entire country not just for those who voted for him. ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/198 "2017-03-11T20:46:56Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > And Trump only got 46%. Which is _less_. Why do you keep harping on Trumps vote counts when he got fewer votes? > > When will you understand that despite winning the Presidency, he has more people against him than for him? > He does _not_ have a mandate to steamroll the opposition. > He _is_ supposed to be the President for the entire country not just for those who voted for him. I don’t think it’s accurate to say there’s more people against him than for him, since only 60% of eligible voters turned out. If 100% of eligible voters turned out, he very well may have won a majority, or a plurality, of the popular vote. There’s just no way to know. And Rasmussen and Politico polls show him with a respectable approval rating, ranging from 49-51%. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/199 "2017-03-11T20:57:10Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > I don’t think it’s accurate to say there’s more people against him than for him, since only 60% of eligible voters turned out. If 100% of eligible voters turned out, he very well may have won a majority, or a plurality, of the popular vote. There’s just no way to know. And Rasmussen and Politico polls show him with a respectable approval rating, ranging from 49-51%. Then it’s not accurate to tout his vote count in either the primaries or the general. If everyone voted, maybe Clinton would have won. Trump is [averaging](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/trump_favorableunfavorable-5493.html) 42.6 favorable, 50.6 unfavorable. Notice how far off Rasmussen is from all the others. And Rasmussen was back in January. Look at the more recent polls. ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/200 "2017-03-11T21:00:28Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Trump is [averaging](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/trump_favorableunfavorable-5493.html) 42.6 favorable, 50.6 unfavorable. > > Notice how far off Rasmussen is from all the others. I also noticed that Rasmussen was the 2nd most accurate pollster in this election, putting Hillary ahead in the popular vote by 2 points–which was her exact winning margin of the popular vote. ([http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public\_content/politics/elections/election\_2016/rasmussen\_reports\_calls\_it\_right%20](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/rasmussen_reports_calls_it_right%20)) A lot of the other polls got 2016 wrong. Rasmsussen got it exact. 2016 was the year people should have learned not to trust everything pollsters say. By continually citing polls showing Trump’s supposed low approval rating, they evidently did not learn that lesson. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849.md?page=11)