# Fellow Trump voters: How do you think the Donald is doing so far. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 10, 2017, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849 "2017-03-10T07:38:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![drossbots](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@drossbots](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drossbots)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/101 "2017-03-10T22:45:53Z")
I just got here, and I wasn’t really to into politics when Obama was president, but isn’t this whataboutism? > **[Whataboutism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism)** > > Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in "what about…?") denotes in a pejorative sense a procedure in which a critical question or argument is not answered or discussed, but retorted with a critical counter-question which expresses a counter-accusation. From a logical and argumentative point of view it is considered a variant of the tu-quoque pattern (Latin 'you too', term for a counter-accusation), which is a subtype of the ad-hominem argument. > The communication intent is often to distract from t... Trump is currently the President of the US, so any lies he tells are relevant to our current situation. Obama is not President anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/102 "2017-03-10T22:46:17Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > You know, it is really hypocritical to me for all these liberals who slam Trump repeatedly for what they say are his supposed lies and falsehoods, but were completely silent over Obama’s egregious, bald-faced lies. You know, it is really hypocritical to me for all these conservatives who slam Obama repeatedly for what they say were his supposed lies and falsehoods, but are completely silent over Obama’s egregious, abundantly-verifiable, bald-faced lies. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/103 "2017-03-10T22:46:47Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > You know, it is really hypocritical to me for all these liberals who slam Trump repeatedly for what they say are his supposed lies and falsehoods, but were completely silent over Obama’s egregious, bald-faced lies. See how you just did it again? Can’t help yourself, can you? It’s your OP about Trump. At least stick to the topic you started. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/104 "2017-03-10T22:48:01Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > You know, it is really hypocritical to me for all these liberals who slam Trump repeatedly for what they say are his supposed lies and falsehoods, but were completely silent over Obama’s egregious, bald-faced lies. > > Remember his biggest campaign promise. If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it? If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor? Are you seriously going to deny that was a lie? > > What about a more egregious one Obama told? Let me show you. David Axelrod was one of Obama’s senior advisers and a very influential campaign staffer in both his elections. According to David Axelrod’s autobiography “Believer”, wich was released in 2014, Obama lied to the nation in his 2008 campaign when he said he opposed gay marriage, when he actually supported it. Axelrod wrote that because opposition to the black community was particularly strong in the black church, Obama didn’t want to risk losing the primaries to Hillary Clinton, a sincere believer in traditional marriage (at the time). That sounds to me like a clear example of a politician lying for political gain. Where’s your outrage? My outrage is focused on the motherfucker in the oval office. The things you accuse Obama with (and I could quibble with you even on those) are pretty typical of what politicians have to do to get anything done. On the other hand, Trump lies in those situations, and in every other situation, when it helps him and when it hurts him. He simply lies and then apologist says it was a joke or we shouldn’t take him so literally. Trump’s lies are concerning, but the \*outrage \*comes from his lack of intellect, knowledge, and competence. He could tell the truth all day, everyday, and I’d still be embarrassed for my country. ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/105 "2017-03-10T23:27:21Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > What about his half-billion (or more) debts to the Chinese and the Russians, and the conflicts of interest and violations of the Emoluments Clause arising therefrom? > > What about his fraudulent claims regarding his golf course in Ossining, NY? Should he be forgiven his crimes, just because he’s POTUS? When people say Trump lies, what they really mean are he says things on political issues where the facts are legitimately in dispute and reasonable people can disagree, and at times the things his opponents claim are the “falsehoods” that Trump says are really _Trump’s opinions_, which can’t really be fact checked. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/106 "2017-03-10T23:43:08Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > When people say Trump lies, what they really mean are he says things on political issues where the facts are legitimately in dispute and reasonable people can disagree, and at times the things his opponents claim are the “falsehoods” that Trump says are really _Trump’s opinions_, which can’t really be fact checked. No, we mean he lies – which has been shown time, and time again by video evidence of Trump saying things one day, and saying opposite things another day – and claiming he never said the first. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/107 "2017-03-10T23:49:29Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > When people say Trump lies, what they really mean are he says things on political issues where the facts are legitimately in dispute and reasonable people can disagree, and at times the things his opponents claim are the “falsehoods” that Trump says are really _Trump’s opinions_, which can’t really be fact checked. ““We got 306 because people came out and voted like they’ve never seen before so that’s the way it goes. I guess it was the biggest Electoral College win since Ronald Reagan,” Trump said during a news conference on Feb. 16.” Is this true? Did Trump receive the biggest Electoral College win since Reagan? Yes or No. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/108 "2017-03-10T23:53:41Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > When people say Trump lies, what they really mean are he says things on political issues where the facts are legitimately in dispute and reasonable people can disagree, and at times the things his opponents claim are the “falsehoods” that Trump says are really _Trump’s opinions_, which can’t really be fact checked. “I happened to be in Scotland, at Turnberry, cutting a ribbon, when Brexit happened,” he said. “And we had a vast amount of press there and I said – this was the day before, you probably remember – ‘Brexit is going to happen’ and I was scorned in the press for making that prediction, I was scorned." Is this true? Did Trump say “Brexit is going to happen” While he was in Scotland **the day before the vote?** Yes or No. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/109 "2017-03-10T23:56:31Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > When people say Trump lies, what they really mean are he says things on political issues where the facts are legitimately in dispute and reasonable people can disagree, and at times the things his opponents claim are the “falsehoods” that Trump says are really _Trump’s opinions_, which can’t really be fact checked. During the election, Trump had a session in session with county sheriffs said that the murder rate in the US is at its highest in “45 to 47 years.” Is the murder rate in the US at it’s highest in 45 years? Yes or No. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/110 "2017-03-10T23:58:45Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > When people say Trump lies, what they really mean are he says things on political issues where the facts are legitimately in dispute and reasonable people can disagree, and at times the things his opponents claim are the “falsehoods” that Trump says are really _Trump’s opinions_, which can’t really be fact checked. On March 7, Trump tweeted: " “122 vicious prisoners, released by the Obama Administration from Gitmo, have returned to the battlefield. Just another terrible decision!” Did the Obama administration release 122 prisoners who later returned to “the battlefield”? Yes or No. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/111 "2017-03-11T00:03:05Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Ah, he promised not to touch entitlements. Are you suggesting he wasn’t serious about that either? > > Link to a [news source you’re probably more comfortable with using](http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2017/02/28/trump-doubles-down-on-controversial-pledge-to-leave-social-security-medicare-untouched.html). ??? Yes, I know he promised not to touch entitlements, and that’s absolutely the wrong thing to do. No serious dent will ever be made into the national debt until we reign in entitlement spending, which I hope he realizes needs to be done. It doesn’t matter how much of a political loser it is, we can’t keep kicking that can down the road. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/112 "2017-03-11T00:11:41Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > My outrage is focused on the motherfucker in the oval office. The things you accuse Obama with (and I could quibble with you even on those) are pretty typical of what politicians have to do to get anything done. So Obama lying through his teeth (and, mind you, people on this board bent over backwards defending outright lies, calling anyone and everyone who stated they were lies less than flattering words) is “okay” because it’s “pretty typical of politicians”? That is, quite frankly, absurd. You might as well just typed “I’m a partisan”, because that’s all that is. I’m unsure as to how you differentiate between an “okay” lie and a “not okay” lie, but it sure seems to be whether or not you like the guy in the Oval Office. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/113 "2017-03-11T00:12:06Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Yes, I know he promised not to touch entitlements, and that’s absolutely the wrong thing to do. No serious dent will ever be made into the national debt until we reign in entitlement spending, which I hope he realizes needs to be done. It doesn’t matter how much of a political loser it is, we can’t keep kicking that can down the road. We could always euthanise people when they reach 65. They’ll die soon anyway. Why not save the expense? ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/114 "2017-03-11T00:18:40Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > We could always euthanise people when they reach 65. They’ll die soon anyway. Why not save the expense? That’s a radical slippery slope argument that no true conservative has ever advocated or wants to do. Also, it’s clear Trump meant he got the most _Republican_ electoral votes since Bush in 1988. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/115 "2017-03-11T00:19:42Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > Also, it’s clear Trump meant he got the most _Republican_ electoral votes since Bush in 1988. Really? Where did he say that? ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/116 "2017-03-11T00:22:41Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Really? Where did he say that? A reporter pointed out he made a mistake in his press confer nice (the 90 minute one), and he corrected himself. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/117 "2017-03-11T00:25:06Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > A reporter pointed out he made a mistake in his press confer nice (the 90 minute one), and he corrected himself. Cite? Date? ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/118 "2017-03-11T00:28:57Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Cite? Date? > **[A reporter called out Trump on his faulty Electoral College math - The Boston...](https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2017/02/16/reporter-called-out-president-trump-his-faulty-electoral-college-math/KHswU4UHapBvLjLgemBt7M/story.html?outputType=amp)** > > During his press conference, President Trump stated that his Electoral College win was the biggest since Ronald Reagan. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/119 "2017-03-11T00:39:27Z")
You said: > [@ckalli1998](#): > > A reporter pointed out he made a mistake in his press confer nice (the 90 minute one), and he corrected himself. And you provided this link: > [@ckalli1998](#): > > [https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2017/02/16/reporter-called-out-president-trump-his-faulty-electoral-college-math/KHswU4UHapBvLjLgemBt7M/amp.html](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2017/02/16/reporter-called-out-president-trump-his-faulty-electoral-college-math/KHswU4UHapBvLjLgemBt7M/amp.html) Trump did not correct himself. He did say (not in the article you provided), ‘Well I’m talking about Republican,’ but that too, was a falsehood. George H.W. Bush, whom, I believe, came _after_ Reagan, received 426 electoral votes, which if my math is correct, is greater than 306. In fact, out 58 elections since George Washington, Trump’s electoral victory ranks 46th. And, of course, he has lied many times about the approximately 3 million popular votes he did not get, claiming that they were all illegal. . ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849/120 "2017-03-11T00:43:00Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > Also, it’s clear Trump meant he got the most _Republican_ electoral votes since Bush in 1988. So when Trump said during a news conference on Feb. 16."I guess it was the biggest Electoral College win since Ronald Reagan,” What he really \*meant \*was “it was the most \*Republican \*electoral votes since Bush”. Do you think that it’s not a lie, as long as we just change all of the words in what he said? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellow-trump-voters-how-do-you-think-the-donald-is-doing-so-far/781849.md?page=7)