# Fellowship of the Ring(the movie) Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 20, 2001, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495 "2001-11-20T23:52:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Yondan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/278dde/32.png) [@Yondan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yondan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2001, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/21 "2001-11-21T19:18:48Z")
I skimmed through this pretty fast, so forgive me if this has already been pointed out, re: TB giving the Hobbits powerful Nazgul-killing swords. He does this after their encounter with the Barrow Wights, pulling baubles and such from the ruins, and, if the barrow-wight scene is still in the film (is it?), it could easily be that they will just pick up some swords themselves at that time. yes? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2001, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/22 "2001-11-21T19:30:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DaveX \* > \*\*It gave the hobbits a reference to think back to whenever things looked bleak. \*\* Frodo is continually looking back at The Shire for this very same reason most of the trilogy. In fact, The Shire is his main source of inspiration for nearly everything he does. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2001, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/23 "2001-11-21T20:37:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ethilrist \* > \*\*Well, yes, Elrond could have the swords, but it kinda begs the question of why he would give them to a coupla Hobbit kids? > > … > > See, I could buy Tom giving them the swords cause he’s special and all, and Knows Things. … \*\* Well, Elrond is kind of special too. And he also knows a thing or two. Why would he give such good swords to Merry and Pippin? Well, maybe because they are members of the Fellowship, they are going in to grave danger, they don’t have swords, and the Ringwraiths are definitely going to be showing up again, to try to get the Ring. Besides, the Hobbit swords are too short to be used as such by an Elf or Man. I’ve always wondered if one reason Gandalf insists Merry and Pippin are included in the Fellowship is so that he has a couple of potential spare Ring-Bearers on hand (Hobbits seem to be good at that) in case Frodo gets killed. Speaking of swords, one question that has been raised in my mind by the trailer is whether or not Aragorn has a full-length sword during the Weathertop scene. In the book, Narsil has not been re-forged yet, so he fights the Ringwraiths using only burning sticks. In some of the movie stills I’ve seen, he seems to have a sword. Any ideas? ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/24 "2001-11-22T04:23:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DaveX \* > **Katisha** , the fact that Eowyn and Arwen are going to remain separate enities is of great comfort to me. I had fallen victim to that rumor, so thank you! 😉 All part of the service. That’s what SDMB is for! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/25 "2001-11-22T06:13:17Z")
One other thing, not really a nitpick but an observation nonetheless . . . I see these mini-trailers for the Fellowship of the Ring every time I read a New York Times story on line. That’s OK, but some of the dialogue makes me wonder . . . in one of these things, Gandalf is describing how Sauron really wants the ring back, and he’s already on the move to find it, and when he does find it, the person who’s carrying it . . . will be KILLED. For me, that was a Dr. Evil moment. (One _meellion_ dollars!!) KILLED? Is that ALL? If I were Frodo, I’d be _relieved_ to find out that the Nazgul only intended to **kill** me. I’d be much more afeared of being turned into a ringwraith and having an endless life of torture in the dungeons of Barad-dur. But for your average moviegoing audience, being “killed” is the worst thing imaginable, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/26 "2001-11-22T06:24:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly \* > \*\* > I see these mini-trailers for the Fellowship of the Ring every time I read a New York Times story on line. That’s OK, but some of the dialogue makes me wonder . . . in one of these things, Gandalf is describing how Sauron really wants the ring back, and he’s already on the move to find it, and when he does find it, the person who’s carrying it . . . will be KILLED. > > \*\* If you listen carefully, you’ll hear that it’s Saruman saying this, not Gandalf, and his tone has a “by-the-way” quality to it, as if what happens to the ring-bearer is of little importance to him. You have to remember that Frodo knows that saving his own life is of little importance to him, compared to saving the world. That’s what makes it _Heroic_ Fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/27 "2001-11-26T00:49:27Z")
I’ll shamelessley resurrect this, since I was out of town when it was active. I’m glad that they’re cutting Bombadil. No, no, put away the pointy sticks, I do really like the old fellow. It’s just that they have to cut a lot to make the movie (at least, if they insist on doing one movie per volume, rather than one per book :)), and Bombadil is something that they can excise rather cleanly. If you take out Bombadil, you’re left with very few loose ends to tie up. Put another way, if you want them to have kept old Tom-without-a-father, what would have them cut instead? The scoop on Eowyn and Arwen, by the way, as I understand it: The official word is that at one point, there was only enough funding to do the whole trilogy in _two_ movies, so even more stuff was cut. Then, the budget department gave the green light for three, and stuff was put back in. Now, at one point, the cast lists included Arwen, but did not mention Eowyn. At that time, also, Arwen was described as a “warrior princess”. It was at this time that many fans, myself included, surmised that the two parts had been combined. As of right now, however, there are, in fact, separate cast listings for Eowyn and Arwen. OK, so much for facts. On to some speculation, it may well be that during the Dark Ages when there were only to be two movies, Eowyn was, in fact, conflated with Arwen, but they fixed that when the budget went back up. Arwen’s role is expanded at least in so far as replacing Glorfindel, but I’ve yet to see any evidence that it’s expanded beyond that. Yes, we see a lot of her in the trailers, but it’s quite possible that they included _all_ of her scenes in the trailers. Certainly, we never see her anyplace that can be verified to _not_ be Rivendell or the Fords. ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/28 "2001-11-26T00:54:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\*OK, so much for facts. On to some speculation, it may well be that during the Dark Ages when there were only to be two movies, Eowyn was, in fact, conflated with Arwen, but they fixed that when the budget went back up. > \*\* Not true – according to the review of the original two scripts (available if you look around at [theonering.net](http://theonering.net)), Arwen and Eowyn were always separate characters. Eomer wasn’t in the two-film version, but he was restored when they got a third movie. (He’s played by Karl Urban. Eowyn is played by Miranda Otto.) ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/29 "2001-11-26T01:30:03Z")
Is it true that the Ent-water has been replaced with Diet Coke, lembas with Hostess Twinkies, and the elvish cloaks with Gore-Tex jackets? (evil laughter) MHO: Replacing Glorfinder was Arwen, and getting read of Tom Bombadil, are two disappointing facts, but everything else I’ve heard about the movie, and the latest preview I’ve seen last night, have me very excited, and for the first time in years I might stand in line to see a movie the first day. This looks like an excellent interpretation of the books, and in a way I’m happy that Arwen is given a more prominent role, since Tolkien’s female characters are few and far-between. One thing I never understood (even though there’s a half-hearted explanation by Gandalf during the council at Rivendell) is why Glorfindel does not accompany the company of Nine when they set out on their quest. If hiding the importance of their mission is that important, what is Gandalf doing in the group? ---
**Author:** ![Cap\_n\_Crude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Cap\_n\_Crude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cap_n_Crude)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/30 "2001-11-26T02:34:16Z")
The Mighty Arnold Winkelried wrote: > [@](#): > > One thing I never understood (even though there’s a half-hearted explanation by Gandalf during the council at Rivendell) is why Glorfindel does not accompany the company of Nine when they set out on their quest. If hiding the importance of their mission is that important, what is Gandalf doing in the group? Simple, IMHO: Gandalf is known to be quite the wanderer, where Glorfindel is not. While Gandalf rightly points out on Caradhras that his use of magic is as good as having a parade and fireworks announcing his presence, it’s still very common for him to be out wandering the world. Glorfindel (about whom I have a question later) is not known to be at large, so any revelation of his power and presence would be even worse – “Holy mushrooms, Glorfindel is sneaking through Moria with a band of mad dogs and hobbits! This bears closer observation.” He is, after all, an elf of some considerable power. > [@](#): > > _FotR, Flight to the Ford:_ > “There are few even in Rivendell that can ride openly against the Nine; but such as there were, Elrond sent out north, west, and south.” This suggests that Glorfindel is a major pointy-eared badass. The same name, Glorfindel, is used for a captain of the elf-host of Gondolin, who took on a Balrog in single combat to allow others to escape; both he and the Balrog fell. Elves don’t seem to reuse names the way men and dwarves do, and elves (with one exception) never truly die. So my question is this: Is the elf at the Ford of Bruinen the same Glorfindel, returned from the West, that fought a Balrog to a standstill? ---
**Author:** ![bourbonstew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3e96dc/32.png) [@bourbonstew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bourbonstew)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/31 "2001-11-26T05:46:36Z")
In answer to **Cap’n Crude** - Yes - THAT Glorfindel. The only other expansions to Arwen’s character I’ve heard involve the ‘meeting Aragorn’ scene in a type of flashback (filmed, but who knows whether in the movie) and that she leads the other Rangers to him just before the Paths of the Dead and Ghost ship hijinx on the way to the battle for Gondor. ---
**Author:** ![Humble\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/47e85d/32.png) [@Humble\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humble_Servant)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/32 "2001-11-26T15:26:43Z")
Quick question–forgive me for not plumbing the depths of the ring sites–I don’t want to get drawn in.😉 I want to reread just enough of the book(s) to get me through the end of the first movie. Does it end exactly at the end of _The Fellowship of the Ring_? Do I need to read a bit of _The Two Towers_? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/33 "2001-11-26T16:00:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Humble Servant \* > \*\* Does it end exactly at the end of _The Fellowship of the Ring_? Do I need to read a bit of _The Two Towers_? \*\* (spoiler alert…as if…) I think that Boromir’s fate will befall him in real-time at the end of FOTR, rather than as a flashback at the beginning of TT. But that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![Gartog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/22d042/32.png) [@Gartog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gartog)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/34 "2001-11-26T16:39:00Z")
With regards to the above, I think the Movie will stand on it’s own. At least I hope it will, if only the folk who have read the book can fully appreciate the film then I will be disapointed. Although as I’ve read the book I suppose I’ll have to ask someone who hasn’t to find out. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/35 "2001-11-26T19:06:37Z")
Cap’n Crude - your explanation is satisfactory, also IMHO. Good show, old chap! bourbonstew - how do you know that the two Glorfindels are the same? I don’t remember seeing any evidence for that, in The Hobbit, LOTR or Silmarillion. Though it would be logical. ---
**Author:** ![Humble\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/47e85d/32.png) [@Humble\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humble_Servant)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/36 "2001-11-26T19:54:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jsc1953 \* > \*\*I think that Boromir’s fate will befall him in real-time at the end of FOTR, rather than as a flashback at the beginning of TT. But that’s it. \*\* I’m so anal that if I start _The Two Towers_ I must finish it, and therefore I might as well reread the third book too and that means that I will neglect my work (which I’m doing now anyway) and I’ll never get around to making the Christmas fudge and I’ll be at the Toys-R-Us at 10:30 pm on the 24th and I’ll wing my presentation for my conference on the 18th. Sounds doable. BTW, Boromir is one of my favorite characters. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/37 "2001-11-26T19:58:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > \*\* > bourbonstew - how do you know that the two Glorfindels are the same? I don’t remember seeing any evidence for that, in The Hobbit, LOTR or Silmarillion. Though it would be logical. \*\* If I may speak for bourbonstew: here’s an entry from a Tolkien FAQ– [http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~bouvin/tolkien/sameglorfindel.html](http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~bouvin/tolkien/sameglorfindel.html) The short answer: Tolkien may have inadvertently re-used a name without thinking through the theological ramifications, but decided after-the-fact that they were indeed the same guy. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/38 "2001-11-26T20:17:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Is it true that the Ent-water has been replaced with Diet Coke, lembas with Hostess Twinkies, and the elvish cloaks with Gore-Tex jackets? (evil laughter) [Absolutely true](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=100052) ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/39 "2001-11-26T21:04:27Z")
> [@](#): > > So my question is this: Is the elf at the Ford of Bruinen the same Glorfindel, returned from the West, that fought a Balrog to a standstill? A lot of ink and effort has been spilled on this. _I_ think it’s the same Glorfindel. But the experts have pointed out that even Tolkien’s thought on this matter is unclear. There is a passage in the Old English epic _The Battle of Maldon_ in which Godric, the son of Odda, ignominiously flees from battle. But at the very end of the poem, before the fragment breaks up, Godric performs deeds of marvelous heroism. But, as the poem tells us in the final extant line: > [@](#): > > Næs þæt na se Godric þe ða guðe forbeah “That was not the Godric who fled from battle.” I truly believe that Tolkien had this passage in mind when he left the matter of the two Glorfindels confused. Maybe it’s a little OE humor. Or maybe Glorfindel really is a major pointy-eared badass. I dunno, and I don’t know if the Master did, either. ---
**Author:** ![bourbonstew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3e96dc/32.png) [@bourbonstew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bourbonstew)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495/40 "2001-11-27T01:05:40Z")
**jsc1953** - Thanks for fielding the question - I was sleeping. I had the same link ready to post, though I am more swayed by the same points **Cap’n Crude** made in asking the question - that elves don’t re-use names or ‘die’. Also the context that the most powerful among the elves were the ones left from the first age (or before) confirms it for me. Glorfindel’s story is one of the untold ones I always hoped would show up amongst the lost tales. A good link I found for timelines (who was around when) can be found here:[Tolkien Timelines](http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/8611/tolk_0.htm) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fellowship-of-the-ring-the-movie-question/94495.md?page=3)