# Felon Spammer Conviction Upheld **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2006, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felon-spammer-conviction-upheld/371642 "2006-09-06T15:11:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felon-spammer-conviction-upheld/371642/21 "2006-09-07T21:44:16Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] If the spammers had to pay just one tenth of a cent per message they sent out (which is a lot less than the junk mailers pay to the USPS), there would be an awful lot less spam. However, it would also make life a lot more difficult for a a lot of valuable free email lists, so I’m not sure that it’s an acceptable solution. [/QUOTE] I wasn’t offering that as a solution to spam, which is something that can only be solved by a total thermonuclear war. I was just pointing out the difference between spammers and junk mailers. Junk mailers are at least giving us something for the priveledge of bothering us. Spammers (like telemarketers) are pure parasites. They add nothing, and only make it harder and more expensive to use things we own in the way we want to use them. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felon-spammer-conviction-upheld/371642/22 "2006-09-10T07:02:25Z")
I got a call today from a potential customer asking why I never answered his emails. What email? I decide to dig in the garbage dump that is my trash folder with its 1000+ daily emails. I found: Emails from other potential customers that I have now lost. Legitimate notifications. Newsletters for which I had signed. But worse, A letter from a friend from 10 days ago telling me that his son had just being diagnosed with a very dangerous cancer. Great. Fucking great! What good is email for anymore? I still get emails for Sallys and Natashas from Henrys and Johns offering cheap mortgages/mounstrous dicks/three-week legitimate college diplomas and other interesting products. Never mind that over 14,000 spams a day get caught server-side and I’ve never even tried to look over there. Who knows, maybe I won some lottery, or something. Today I also broke a record at our forum: 10 spammers in just a day. I can’t fucking understand what they gain. Does anyone fucking buy that stuff, and if so, can we just get rid of these idiots who do? I am pissed. I don’t believe in death penalty for any crime, but some creative torture would make me feel much better. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felon-spammer-conviction-upheld/371642/23 "2006-09-10T08:33:36Z")
That Court of Appeals judgement is good news. Anything that helps to make spamming less economical for the bastards is all right by me. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felon-spammer-conviction-upheld/371642/24 "2006-09-10T09:32:15Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Death penalty? Maybe. I’d be satisfied by nailing his ears and scrotum to a wall in a public place and letting anyone who wanted to take a punch or kick at him. The cost of spam, in both time and resources, to the rest of the population of the world makes such a punishment a fitting one. [/QUOTE] Personally, I think that we should bring back the stocks. Each spam email earns a spammer an hour in the stocks. Oh, and let’s allow people to throw marbles at spammers…nothing bigger. Surely a spammer wouldn’t mind tiny little annoyances thrown at him, right? Even if there are thousands and thousands of those tiny things thrown at him… ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felon-spammer-conviction-upheld/371642/25 "2006-09-10T16:14:45Z")
[QUOTE=Mighty\_Girl] I got a call today from a potential customer asking why I never answered his emails. What email? I decide to dig in the garbage dump that is my trash folder with its 1000+ daily emails. I found: Emails from other potential customers that I have now lost. Legitimate notifications. Newsletters for which I had signed. But worse, A letter from a friend from 10 days ago telling me that his son had just being diagnosed with a very dangerous cancer. [/QUOTE] Ouch. I’m so sorry to hear about all of that. That’s something that people who shrug at spam often overlook: The cost of false positives. I hope your friend’s son comes through. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felon-spammer-conviction-upheld/371642/26 "2006-09-10T16:45:52Z")
The problem is that most spammers aren’t in the US. Many are in Russia or other places that make it difficult to prosecute them. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felon-spammer-conviction-upheld/371642/27 "2006-09-10T17:02:49Z")
Wait a minute! You mean I’m **NOT** going to get 14 million dollars for helping out the nephew of Ghana’s Finance Minister??!! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felon-spammer-conviction-upheld/371642/28 "2006-09-10T17:05:35Z")
[QUOTE=adam yax] I kinda don’t get all the vitriol directed at spammers. Don’t get me wrong, I am no fan of spam in any way, shape or form, but I would much rather have a crack down on snail mail spam over email spam. The amount of unrequested crap that ends up in my physical mail box pisses me off a lot more than anything that gets through my email filters. [/QUOTE] You can [opt out](http://www.dmaconsumers.org/cgi/offmailinglist) of snail mail lists. This will not eliminate all of the junk mail you receive, but it will reduce it. You can also contact individual mailers; for example, [Advo](http://www.advo.com/document/networkservicesqanda.pdf) (.pdf document). These are the guys who send the ‘missing child’ cards with their 17 cuibic feet of crap that fills your mailbox. I’ve also called Pennysaver to get rid of their bulky snail spam. [More information](http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs4-junk.htm). It takes about six weeks to stop receiving the mailings, because the cards are printed in advance. But once they stop I’ve had good luck with not receiving them. (I only called Pennysaver last week, so I’ll still get the mailbox gordita for a little while.) Incidentally, according to the cards that accompany Advo and Pennysaver mailings, the cards are required by law; which makes it fairly simple to contact them. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felon-spammer-conviction-upheld/371642/29 "2006-09-10T17:14:19Z")
[QUOTE=Lynn Bodoni] Personally, I think that we should bring back the stocks. Each spam email earns a spammer an hour in the stocks. Oh, and let’s allow people to throw marbles at spammers…nothing bigger. Surely a spammer wouldn’t mind tiny little annoyances thrown at him, right? Even if there are thousands and thousands of those tiny things thrown at him… [/QUOTE] it’d be _far_ more efficient if the marbles were propelled by slingshots with the high-power rubber bands though… either that or force-feed spammers an “Ebola Milkshake” ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felon-spammer-conviction-upheld/371642/30 "2008-09-12T15:11:52Z")
Update: [Va. Court Strikes Down Anti-Spam Law](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/12/AR2008091201211.html?hpid=topnews) This is an interesting development. Since the court’s decisions seems to have rested on the Federal Constitution, it’s ripe for SCOTUS to pick up if they are inclined. But in the meantime, are we in for a burst of shit in our inboxes? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felon-spammer-conviction-upheld/371642/31 "2008-09-12T18:15:35Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Update: > [Va. Court Strikes Down Anti-Spam Law](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/12/AR2008091201211.html?hpid=topnews) > > This is an interesting development. Since the court’s decisions seems to have rested on the Federal Constitution, it’s ripe for SCOTUS to pick up if they are inclined. But in the meantime, are we in for a burst of shit in our inboxes? Shit! That sucks. I just don’t understand how the court could make this argument: > [@](#): > > Agee noted that in order to send an anonymous e-mail, the sender must “enter a false IP address or domain name.” And “the right to engage in anonymous speech, particularly anonymous political or religious speech, is 'an aspect of the freedom of speech protected by the First Amendment,” Agee wrote, citing a 1995 U.S. Supreme Court opinion. But not allowing someone to send millions of unsolicited, anonymous emails is NOT, in my opinion, the same as curbing their right to anonymous expression. There are plenty of ways and formats in which someone can indulge their need or desire for anonymous expression without slamming millions of people with spam. It’s like arguing that i’m deprived of freedom of speech because i can’t just walk into NBC and get free air time for my political rantings. I’m actually pretty much a free speech absolutist. I’ve defended holocaust deniers like David Irving against those who think that his jailing was OK. I’ve opposed hate speech statutes and other similar attempts to legislate thought and speech. But this is bullshit. Spam is not simply a slightly different form of the same speech we hear and see in other forums; it’s a very different thing, and the fact that i don’t want to receive some asshole marketing guy’s spam does not mean that i want to restrict his freedom of expression. > [@](#): > > “By prohibiting false routing information in the dissemination of e-mails,” Agee wrote, the Virginia law “infringes on that protected right.” > > The court noted that “were the ‘Federalist Papers’ just being published today via e-mail, that transmission by Publius would violate the [current Virginia] statute.” This is a ridiculous comparison. The Federalist papers were not printed in the millions and dumped on people’s doorsteps or thrust through their open windows. They were, for the most part, initially published in newspapers that you had to go out and buy, and then were later collected and published as bound editions, which you also had to seek out in bookstores. If Jaynes were publishing his crap in newspaper ads, or on a website, i’d have absolutely no trouble with it. He can sell as much snake oil as he wants; i just don’t want the advertising entering my email against my will. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felon-spammer-conviction-upheld/371642/32 "2008-09-12T18:18:33Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The problem is that most spammers aren’t in the US. Many are in Russia or other places that make it difficult to prosecute them. Its been mentioned before, that countries with lax isp’s should be black listed and email originating from them sent to /dev/null until the indig natives clean up their acts. declan ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felon-spammer-conviction-upheld/371642/33 "2008-09-12T18:20:48Z")
I’ll be more impressed when they arrest and imprison a Nigerian or Russian mafia spammer. Until then, meh. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felon-spammer-conviction-upheld/371642/34 "2008-09-12T21:26:17Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yeah, but all that junk mail actually serves a useful purpose. It’s the money from the bulk mail that makes normal postage so cheap. Get rid of junk mail, and it could wind up costing you a couple bucks just to post a regular letter. Not to mention: if you read the junk mail, it doesn’t drop a ticking time bomb in the middlle of the kitchen floor, or run off and send a copy of your front door key to the scuzzball that sent it. Don’t get me wrong - I hate junk mail. The signal-to-noise ratio is pretty low and we’ve come close to missing legitimate mail - plus, even companies I deal with for real send me crap mail. BUT, it’s a lot less dangerous. I was geting about 95% spam to 5% real mail until I finally broke down and switched email addresses. The “real world” equivalent would be if I were expecting a legitimate phone call, and all the telemarketers were bombarding me with calls, so that I quit answering the phone and had to change my number to get away from it. Spam on my cell phone is a treat too. I’ve gotten voice phone calls, AND text messages. As with junk faxes, these cost me money. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felon-spammer-conviction-upheld/371642/35 "2008-09-12T23:08:25Z")
Totally fucked reasoning/precedent, imho, but the law was not well-written and probably should have been overturned. The perspective that spoofing/forging anything in order to send mail as being necessary in order to exercise the right to free speech is technologically ignorant, again, imho. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felon-spammer-conviction-upheld/371642/36 "2008-09-15T00:05:02Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I kinda don’t get all the vitriol directed at spammers. Don’t get me wrong, I am no fan of spam in any way, shape or form, but I would much rather have a crack down on snail mail spam over email spam. The amount of unrequested crap that ends up in my physical mail box pisses me off a lot more than anything that gets through my email filters. Most spammers deserve no condonement in any way. The repeated attempts to evade filters by mangling spellings or domain names is as stupid as it is annoying. But I agree on the junk mail. If you live in an apartment house, the lobby is invariably littered with junk mail in the afternoon and it’s not attractive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/felon-spammer-conviction-upheld/371642.md?page=1)